how do you feel about the current regulatory system for e-Bikes in the US?

[mschwett]

This subject comes up a lot, and a few of us have pretty frequently stated (and re-stated hahah) views. Let’s see what a broader set of opinions are.

Speaking of the US, i would describe the current system as this: there are federal and state definitions of what an e-Bike is, with the state definitions generally governing where and what kind of e-Bikes are legal to use in that state, through local enforcement (excluding federal lands.) Many states have adopted variations of the three class system. Use is generally restricted by location and class rather than by speed: e.g. many mixed use paths permit only type 1 or 2 bikes, most bike lanes permit all three, most trails only permit type 1, but said trails and bike lanes don’t have speed limits for bikes.

Please don’t argue or proselytize, let’s see how many voices we can hear!

 

[LimboJim]

What makes me crazy is how my class 3 eMTB goes from being a bicycle on pavement to a motorized vehicle on "natural surfaces."

 

[Jimmy666]

I don't even think about the classes. I just ride.

 

[mschwett]

just a note about the poll; you can pick two options: it would make sense to pick one of the first five, and optionally one of the last two

 

[chunk]

The only regs I checked before I bought an ebike was the California DMV's, specifically to do with registration and insurance requirements. Other than that here in California, no one official or otherwise seem to give any notice to e bikes. Strange as it seems in such a highly regulated state, e bikes don't seem to be on Sacramento's radar. I just ride wherever I choose, staying off private property of course and have never been questioned. Lots of BLM land here too, which is nice for all sorts of recreation.

 

[Mike_V]

I believe there are no regulators for any of those regulations. Show me a single ticketed offense.
Do you imagine that you will be prosecuted for some obscure reason?
( IF You don't spill your guts and admit your perceived transgression )

 

[fuyume]

I believe there are no regulators for any of those regulations. Show me a single ticketed offense.
Do you imagine that you will be prosecuted for some obscure reason?
( IF You don't spill your guts and admit your perceived transgression )

The "regulators" are the police. If you go tooling around the roads on a DIY ebike at 50 mph with no license plates, rest assured that the police will pull you over and impound the bike as an unlicensed motorcycle.

But, even you you gin up a way "overpowered" (ie, greater than 750 W) ebike, so long as you don't go above 30 mph, you are unlikely to be bothered.

I have several problems with the current regulation system. First of all, the 20 and 28 mph speed limits are entirely arbitrary, as is the 750 W limit. No one really knows why 28 mph was picked. That's not a usual speed limit anywhere in the US. It would have made more sense to say 25 mph or 30 mph. At least 750 W can be plausibly related to a nice round number (1 HP = 746 W, so a 750 W motor is more or less a 1 HP motor), although that too is, in the end utterly arbritrary. For those of us who live in very hilly areas, the ability to use a 1000 W or larger motor would not necessary enable us to excess these speeds on a steep climb, but would make our lives much easier and our equipment last longer, and enable us to tow grocery and equipment trailers.

The hill between my house and the downtown area of my town is a 9% grade. Even taking the long way around, I'm still looking at a hill with a 5% grade.

Second of all, limiting throttle only operation to 20 mph while pedal assist bikes can go 28 mph is clearly unduly discriminatory to people of lesser physical ability who cannot pedal (like me with my busted knee), as is the requirement that ebikes have operable pedals in the first place. Why shouldn't I be able to go as fast as someone with two good legs? My bad knee does not render me in any way unable to control my ebike safely.

I'm actually amazed that ebikes are allowed by the government *at all*. The nanny state prefers 100% control over who can and cannot "drive". I'm very concerned that as ebike technology improves, the government is really going to crack down on it for precisely that reason. They will classify ebikes as motorcycles so they can subject people to licensing, registration, and insurance, hire more police, and take people's licenses away for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with operating violations.

 

[fuyume]

The only regs I checked before I bought an ebike was the California DMV's, specifically to do with registration and insurance requirements. Other than that here in California, no one official or otherwise seem to give any notice to e bikes. Strange as it seems in such a highly regulated state, e bikes don't seem to be on Sacramento's radar. I just ride wherever I choose, staying off private property of course and have never been questioned. Lots of BLM land here too, which is nice for all sorts of recreation.

The more ebikes are sold, the more they will be regulated. The only reason the cops aren't bothering much yet is because in the grand scheme of things, there are few ebikes actually on the road, so there are fewer people committing egregious violations.

 

[tomjasz]

Fast bikes will bring regulations. I self regulate by setting my personal speed limit. 2 of my bikes are capable of 30+mph but 20mph is my personal preference. but I seldom ride over 20MPH. Only because of the extended stopping distance. Something most of us haven’t established braking distance in a panic stop.

 

[Gordon71]

I think they are fine as they are. I don't need to license, register,or have insurance. What will destroy that are not the bikes but the idiots that soup them up and ride them like idiots.

 

[Roamers]

The only thing I checked was typical rules in NP and State Parks.

I disagree with throttle only ability for bikes. Make them a class of motorcycle with appropriate rules.

I disagree with Class 3 on the same recreational trails as Class 1; but have no issue with them on streets.

 

[rtp]

I’m sure every non-US EBR member is wondering how to respond here, but…
Overall it’s kind of…meh. The 20mph and classes as they sit today is IMO, a lazy carryover from the EU, or near enough.
The fact that many parks are on Federal land and go by different rules than the state they’re in doesn’t thrill me. ‘Local decision’ *sounds* good, but you get the hikers, horse folks and analog MTBers all up in arms over the use of a (not-so-much) ‘scary’ e-bikes ruining things for them.

On roads, 20mph is a safety problem IMO. Heck, even riding my DRZ-400S is a safety issue running out of gearing ~75-80mph, not great when on a highway and someone does something bad near you - sometimes you do in fact need to speed up.

There are ‘real’ and valid reasons for some regulation, IMO. I seem to not have saved the video I wish I did, but there was a Sur-ron riding on MTB trails, crashed into one or more riders, people were trying to help those injured, so what does the Sur-Ron rider do - oh yeah, he took the hell off. Nothing against Sur-Rons - I kinda want one, but it’s not a ‘bicycle’ by any stretch of the imagination if we’re being at all honest. Meanwhile, sending any ebike to ‘motorcycle trails’ is just flat out wrong on the flip side.

What would I do that sort of resembles my definition of ‘relative sanity’? While I love the ‘freedom’ argument and all, one’s personal freedom is curtailed where it impacts the rights or freedom of <someone else>. (e.g. no yelling fire in a theatre, etc.)

It’s actually harder to write up if trying to be fair, but as a pass:
Class 1: pedal assist with or without throttle, up to 20mph, < 750-1KW nominal, throttle < 500W
Class 2: pedal assist with or without throttle, up to 28/30mph, < 750-1KW nominal, throttle < 500W
Class 3: pedal assist with or without throttle, up to 30mph, < 750-1KW nominal, throttle unlimited
Class 4: speed >= 30-35mph, > 1KW nominal

Class 1 and 2 = same rules as bicycles, period. If a park has speed limits posted, obey ‘em.
Class 3: Local discretion, otherwise on-road OK in bike lanes, off-road motorways only, no bike trails.
Class 4: Congratulations, enjoy your moped/motorcycle. Possibly no registration to <= 40MPH, then registration and insurance required. off-road motorcycle/motor vehicles only.

There’s a pass, anyways, where undoubtedly everyone running 3KW+ bikes will come they ‘do no harm’ to analog MTB trails (BS IMO), blah blah. I don’t ‘like’ having throttle limited as a general policy, although I do lock my own throttle to PAS level (and riding mostly in PAS 2-3 of 9 is weak-ish), but seems a reasonable compromise for riders of ‘new Class 1/2’ being able to ride on analog mtb trails, without impacting on-road analog riders overly much as well.

 

[kmccune]

I think they are fine as they are. I don't need to license, register,or have insurance. What will destroy that are not the bikes but the idiots that soup them up and ride them like idiots.

Yep you run over someone's kid or Grandma doing over 30 mph, that will change things rather fast, if you survive the crash and relatives you will be cited for assault, reckless endangerment and or a degree of manslaughter.
Please keep it sensible People,I watched a Youtube" video of some jerk putting together a fairly fast ebike then giving it the "beans" on a trail, this Jerk went tearing by old People and anybody wide open without an acknowledgment they were even there. Someone hearing impaired is very much at risk from such behavior,I had an elderly Uncle who was killed by a motorcycle when He went to get the mail( he didn't have His Hearing aid working) He stepped in front of a motorcycle and there was no indication the motorcyclist was doing anything on towards reckless.

 

[AHicks]

Rules/laws with no enforcement are worth what?

Rules that make no sense are worth what?

Inconsistent rules are frustrating.

For the above reasons, my plan is to ignore the rules, and just ride in a sane manner. You want to write me a ticket for being illegal? Go for it.

New rules should have some thought given to the rider's age/abilities. In other words, MANY senior riders wouldn't be riding if it were not for the assistance available with an e-bike - even though they may not qualify for a disabled status. Clearly that's not going to be an easy job writing into any new rules, but I beleive it's a critical piece to the puzzle at hand.....

 

[Roamers]

New rules should have some thought given to the rider's age/abilities. In other words, MANY senior riders wouldn't be riding if it were not for the assistance available with an e-bike - even though they may not qualify for a disabled status. Clearly that's not going to be an easy job writing into any new rules, but I beleive it's a critical piece to the puzzle at hand.....

I disagree that rules should consider people's ability. Not dissing seniors, because I am one, but just as I think a string of athletes running 30 mph down the trail, so are weaving seniors doing 6 mph.

Rules are made so someone can be charged with something when the day goes bad.

 

[AHicks]

I disagree that rules should consider people's ability. Not dissing seniors, because I am one, but just as I think a string of athletes running 30 mph down the trail, so are weaving seniors doing 6 mph.

Rules are made so someone can be charged with something when the day goes bad.

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of legal vs. illegal use..... Didn't say it was going to be easy!

 

[Roamers]

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of legal vs. illegal use..... Didn't say it was going to be easy!

Without getting complex, Class 1 and 3 are bikes. Govern max speed on trails. Class 2 are motorcycles and follow motorized for use rules.

 

[tomjasz]

Without getting complex, Class 1 and 3 are bikes. Govern max speed on trails. Class 2 are motorcycles and follow motorized for use rules.

Another throttle hater. Sheesh.

 

[AHicks]

Without getting complex, Class 1 and 3 are bikes. Govern max speed on trails. Class 2 are motorcycles and follow motorized for use rules.

That would be YOUR OPINION, and further, incorrect as it is, it would not be shared by a lot of people.

 

[chunk]

Motorcycle guy here, love my throttle. My e bike is more of a tool for me and thus, when I want a lot more of an adrenaline rush I hop on one of the M/C's. Back on topic though, I think one reason Ca. isn't too restrictive with e bikes is that we are electric friendly here and we have a lot of BLM land available and we are allowed to use it. I've been riding off road motorcycles here for longer than I like to admit and not once have i been questioned. Just the opposite actually, the law enforcement folks are very personable when and if we make contact and they seem to like to talk motorcycles. Of course I'm always respectful of the environment and private land, pack out trash, etc, so that make a big difference in the attitude of others as well.