Here are my top picks so far.

Henstelfs · Apr 28, 2020

My Max budget is $4000 but I'd like to come under.

I'll be riding around on paved and logging roads, trails, and hills. I don't think I'll use it much in the mountain bike parks.

These are the best bikes I've found so far for my needs.

After reading many reviews, this one stands above the rest
https://rizebikes.ca/products/rize-rx

A similar one +$ -Specs
https://www.biktrix.ca/pages/juggernaut-classic-details#ds

Solid Competitor -Range
https://eunorau-ebike.com/products/fat-hd

Could be good. Lightweight but small range. +$
https://electricbikereview.com/flx/trail/

On the cheap side
https://dj-ebikes.com/collections/f...-bike-500w-canada-only?variant=19403047764022

Haibike looks like they have a ton of options but Europe is pretty far from me.

I figure buying a used mountain bike and installing a mid drive motor would save money but could be trouble. Also, would I lose ground clearance if the mid drive motor isn't built into the frame?

The main problem is I can't test drive these and specs only tell you so much. I'm not going into Vancouver until the pandemic is over.

I really appreciate the help!

byunbee · Apr 28, 2020

It doesn't sound like you would need a FS bike if you're never going on mountain trails. FS means more parts to maintain that wear out and you have to replace. I would go for a decent class 3 commuter bike with a suspension fork and add a suspension seatpost (Thudbuster or Kinekt). It would also help if you provide additional information of you riding needs such as range you need for each ride, desired max speed, whether your roads are well paved or not well maintained, and how steep your hills are.

Also, don't look at just retail sites. You can find great deals if you search long enough. I found my 2015 Haibike Xduro Urban with 1 mile on the odometer about a month ago for $1100 (basically brand new). This bike retailed for $4500 when it was first introduced. Others may disagree, but I'd rather buy a low mileage big brand name ebike that's used, than brand new lower quality ebike.

If you really want a FS mountain bike, here's one on Offerup that's a decent deal.

2017 Specialized Turbo Levo for $2500. You can get it for $2200 since I already tried haggling it down to $2000 and he said $2200 is the lowest. I believe this bike retailed for around $6000 new.

Levo Electric Bike for Sale in Laguna Beach, CA - OfferUp

Used (normal wear), 2017 Levo FRS Electric Bike, Performance Float Shock, Upgraded Shimano slx Brakes Size: Med. Make an offer!

offerup.com

byunbee · Apr 28, 2020

Another option might be to check out the new Wattwagons Superbike. It's $5999, but you get a lot of bike for that price. My original budget for ebike was $2500, but ended up purchasing it because it's such a great deal. Rohloff and Gates Carbon Drive = lowest maintenance. Every other component is top of the line or close to it.

Wattwagons Retail Site

The New Ultimate Commuter Pro - Delivery Oct 2020

This is the pre-launch version of the upcoming Watt Wagons Ultimate Commuter Pro - aka the Superbike. For pre-orders we are ONLY ASKING FOR THE FOLLOWING - Frame size / Color / Style / Fork. Prototype expected July 2020, Bike Delivery late Oct 2020. Here are the founder specs Motor - Bafang...

wattwagons.com

Wattwagons EBR Forum

Watt Wagons Forum

Discuss the brand, its products and upcoming models.

electricbikereview.com

Here are the founder specs

Motor - Bafang Ultra with Archon X1 controller
Frame integrated 17Ah battery. Option to add a second 17ah battery.
Rohloff rear hub
Gates belt drive
Front fork - Auron
Supernova M99 Pro with Switch. Brake actuated rear light.
Magura Mt5e. 203mm rotors front and 180mm rear
Kinekt Suspension Seatpost.
Brooks B-17 imperial saddle.
Cycle Satiator charger
Spurcycle bell.
Moloko Loop bar
Ergon Gp1 or better grips. Confirmed.
Tires Schwalbe Super Moto-X , 27.5x2.4
SKS Front / rear fenders.
Rear rack like dual level.
Abus folding lock
Adjustable stem
Frame compatible with up to 27.5x3 inch tires
Frame colors - 2 options Matte Silver /Matte Blue
TBD - Kickstand style based on prototypes.

indianajo · Apr 29, 2020

The 9x1 cluster on the flx combined with a bafang mid drive will give you maybe 1000 miles per chain. Hauling the bike to the shop is not a problem for you? Or 3-4 hours with the bike upside down? With hub drive & 8 speed chain I get 5000 miles per chain, 2 1/2 years. Could have been 2 hours with exactly the right tools, but the snap action master link was a PI**. Could have waited 4 days for a new tool from IA or NY.
Mid drives are good for extreme off road slopes, but you can't ride them unpowered to extend range or pedal home after a failure. When a heavy rain took out my throttle I pedaled 25 miles home. My geared hub drive will handle 15% slopes, 3 of them 100' long, + 74 other hills on my weekly commute. Doesn't drag unpowered.

TForan · Apr 29, 2020

indianajo said:
The 9x1 cluster on the flx combined with a bafang mid drive will give you maybe 1000 miles per chain. Hauling the bike to the shop is not a problem for you? Or 3-4 hours with the bike upside down? With hub drive & 8 speed chain I get 5000 miles per chain, 2 1/2 years. Could have been 2 hours with exactly the right tools, but the snap action master link was a PI**. Could have waited 4 days for a new tool from IA or NY.
Mid drives are good for extreme off road slopes, but you can't ride them unpowered to extend range or pedal home after a failure. When a heavy rain took out my throttle I pedaled 25 miles home. My geared hub drive will handle 15% slopes, 3 of them 100' long, + 74 other hills on my weekly commute. Doesn't drag unpowered.

3-4 hours to swap out a chain ? Link by link ? 30 minutes tops.

scout592 · Apr 29, 2020

You listed some nice choices with the Biktrix and Rize RX with Biktrix Juggernaut 1000 showing best support. In your price range I would add the Evelo Aurora Limited which has gates belt and probably the best support and amazing warranty in the under $4,000 price range. I just saw a new post for the Ride1up 800 but not shipping yet so not much information and no reviews on it yet.

scout592 · Apr 29, 2020

Sorry, The Ride1UP is actually called the"LMT’D” not 800.

Henstelfs · Apr 29, 2020

Wow thank you for the great replies and bike suggestions. I'm all up for buying used if I can find one.

Budget is $4000 CAD = $2870 USD

Some info:
Me: 6'1'' ~200lbs 24yrs old
Range: As much as I can get
Max Speed: 30km/h is enough for me
Hills: Lots of paved roads in my town 10%-21% grade. I also want to go camping through logging roads on the mountain, which are also around 10%-21% grade with loose rocks, gravel, mud, and snow.

I'll also need panniers and fenders. Not sure is a FS fits those?

I could buy a thick chain like this: https://www.connexchain.com/en/e-bike-chains.html
I understand that chain degradation is an issue on mid drives. I'm an AV tech, I believe I can learn to fix a chain, and carry an extra one with bike tools on trips. I can walk to my bike shop from my house. They only sell Specialized bikes. They told me, "Hub drives are for old people and not real mountain bikers." Lol
I worry that a hub drive won't give enough torque uphill only because of my lack of experience.

Used Turbo Levo is an interesting deal, thank you for the link,
Wattwagons Ultimate Commuter Pro has a CG picture on their website. Not in production yet and expensive.
The Ride1Up LMTD does look like a good deal.
Evelo Aurora Limited is out of my price range at $4000 USD but the carbon-reinforced belt drive looks like a winning system.

This one looks good too and is $600 off! https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collections/all-terrain-electric-bike-series/products/all-terrain-ultra-ht

indianajo · Apr 29, 2020

The 10 speed rear on the m2s allterrainultraht will definitely chew up chains with a mid drive. One doesn't have to carry chains, just measure them frequently to avoid riding on a worn out one. They start popping over the smaller rear sprockets when worn out. One poster that commutes said his chains last 500 miles. Some commuting posters have reported connex ebike chain lasts the same as a generic KMC.
21% grade loose surface road indicates permanently powered mid-drive, but realize if you break something you'll have to push the bike out. Brose yamaha & shimano steps mid drives can be ridden unpowered, but are not popular in the off-road MTB category. There is a yamaha mtb with 2 front & 8 rear sprockets, which could possibly have 3-5 times the life of a 10 speed chain.

byunbee · Apr 29, 2020

indianajo said:
The 10 speed rear on the m2s allterrainultraht will definitely chew up chains with a mid drive. One doesn't have to carry chains, just measure them frequently to avoid riding on a worn out one. They start popping over the smaller rear sprockets when worn out. One poster that commutes said his chains last 500 miles. Some commuting posters have reported connex ebike chain lasts the same as a generic KMC.
21% grade loose surface road indicates permanently powered mid-drive, but realize if you break something you'll have to push the bike out. Brose yamaha & shimano steps mid drives can be ridden unpowered, but are not popular in the off-road MTB category. There is a yamaha mtb with 2 front & 8 rear sprockets, which could possibly have 3-5 times the life of a 10 speed chain.

You can also ride ebikes with Bosch motors without power.

byunbee · Apr 29, 2020

Henstelfs said:
Hills: Lots of paved roads in my town 10%-21% grade. I also want to go camping through logging roads on the mountain, which are also around 10%-21% grade with loose rocks, gravel, mud, and snow.

Based on this requirement it sounds like you need a eMTB with mid-drive motor.

You may want to check out Frey AM1000. You'd be ordering directly from the manufacturer in China but they generally have good customer service and is a known brand among eMTB crowd.

This product is no longer available.

www.alibaba.com

The base model is around $2380 but shipping cost will kill your budget - $786. If you can wait for ship by sea, the shipping cost is $500.

It's too bad you started looking late, they had a free shipping special about a month ago.

But if it were me, I would get the used Turbo Levo I linked even if it's out of warranty since you already live close to a Specialized dealer.

Henstelfs · Apr 29, 2020

indianajo. I appreciate the feedback. I won't get that type of rear sprocket. Should I look for a 8 or less ring sprocket? What do you think of carbon-reinforced belt drives?

byunbee. The Frey looks like a solid bike but shipping puts it right with the rest of them. The Turbo Levo looks good but it says local pick up on the sight. I got this message on bike flights so I don't know about shipping to Vancouver. Especially when there's so many local bikers and shops here.

Henstelfs · Apr 29, 2020

The more I think about it the more I want full suspension. To rip through back country logging roads over loose rocks without rattling my head. I realize I might have to push my budget for that but I'd rather do that than be left wanting more. Maybe I'll buy a used FS bike and install a motor myself. That would save a few grand I think. Plus I'd get educated.

Henstelfs · Apr 29, 2020

If I had work right now I could expand my budget and go for something like this https://www.biktrix.ca/pages/juggernaut-ultra-fs-details
Although it has more than 8 gear rings on the rear sprocket, so not good for chain longevity

indianajo · Apr 29, 2020

Henstelfs said:
indianajo. I appreciate the feedback. I won't get that type of rear sprocket. Should I look for a 8 or less ring sprocket? What do you think of carbon-reinforced belt drives?

I get 5000 miles with 8 speed sprocket & chain & hub motor; a commuter got 500 miles on 11 speed with a mid drive. Which do you want? I have to shift the front sprocket occasionally going from hilly terrain to flat or back.
The left shifter drives some severely right handed people crazy, not me. I used to drive trucks with a rear axle splitter, no problem to me. I use 2m,3m,4m,5m,6m most of the time. 1L,2L,3L in hills, then to 3m as it flattens. Then goes from 6M, 6H, 7H,8H downhill or maximum motor assist.
Gates belts are premium, take a lot of disassembly to change every 10000 miles or so. We did wear them out at the factory on the conveyor belts.Every 18-24 months on a 90 hour/week operation. They load the axle sideways with thehigher tension, rohloff 11 speed IGH seem to have a problem with them.

Henstelfs · Apr 29, 2020

Definitely the 5000 miles! I don't care where the shifter or throttle is. I'll get a gate belt if I can

Henstelfs · Apr 29, 2020

OK this is my new favourite. $1000 off! How do ya'll like M2S Bikes? https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collectio...2s-bikes-dual-sport-mid-drive-full-suspension

FlatSix911 · Apr 29, 2020

Henstelfs said:
Wow thank you for the great replies and bike suggestions. I'm all up for buying used if I can find one.

Budget is $4000 CAD = $2870 USD

Some info:
Me: 6'1'' ~200lbs 24yrs old
Range: As much as I can get
Max Speed: 30km/h is enough for me
Hills: Lots of paved roads in my town 10%-21% grade. I also want to go camping through logging roads on the mountain, which are also around 10%-21% grade with loose rocks, gravel, mud, and snow.

I'll also need panniers and fenders. Not sure is a FS fits those?

I could buy a thick chain like this: https://www.connexchain.com/en/e-bike-chains.html
I understand that chain degradation is an issue on mid drives. I'm an AV tech, I believe I can learn to fix a chain, and carry an extra one with bike tools on trips. I can walk to my bike shop from my house. They only sell Specialized bikes. They told me, "Hub drives are for old people and not real mountain bikers." Lol
I worry that a hub drive won't give enough torque uphill only because of my lack of experience.

Used Turbo Levo is an interesting deal, thank you for the link,
Wattwagons Ultimate Commuter Pro has a CG picture on their website. Not in production yet and expensive.
The Ride1Up LMTD does look like a good deal.
Evelo Aurora Limited is out of my price range at $4000 USD but the carbon-reinforced belt drive looks like a winning system.

This one looks good too and is $600 off! https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collections/all-terrain-electric-bike-series/products/all-terrain-ultra-ht

Based on your profile and requirements I can recommend 3 websites for deals on EBikes... happy hunting!

Henstelfs · Apr 29, 2020

Sweet I'll check em out!

Here are my top picks so far.

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