Help me to choose decent commuter class 2/3 combined, optimal budget <=3k

[AHicks]

The difference between Class 2 and 3 is how fast it will go (20 vs. 28mph).

My own logic on price limit is the fact that with a bike purchased for under 2K, I can ride it at least 2-3 years, throw it away, and buy another bike just like it, with updated state of the art technology, AND a new battery, and STILL have spent less than 4k. That's an easy call here....

 

[BBassett]

Hi,

I will be moving in a coupe if days to Seattle metro area and exploring options to commute with ebike. I wend through multiple reviews and descriptions. However still struggling to choose y first ebike. What do I have in mind:...

I appreciate your advice

Simple... 1st Do Not Buy any production ebike. Find the perfect bike (steel frame capable of holding a 30Ah triangle lithium pack) for how you are going to be riding the majority of the time. I live near Seattle... make sure it has fenders and a super high-quality racks that can carry up to 40 lbs. front and back. Then add a mid-drive, battery, display controller and a Grin Satiator for charging. I know people in the Seattle area that can help with mounting the motor if necessary. A BBSHD, 30Ah EM3 battery, display, and Satiator will run around $2000. Add all that to the bike of your choice and you will have an ebike with a range of up to 80 miles if you don't pretend it's a baby electric motorcycle.

 

[BBassett]

Vitaliy, the short answer is: Class 2 e-bike has no pedals.

California Legal eBike Classifications Guide - Current eBikes

California Legal eBike Classifications Guide Where can I ride my new eBike? California adopted new laws for legal eBikes in 2015, breaking the bikes down into three classes. The classifications are primarily based on where they are allowed to operate. AB 1096: Electric Bicycles This is the law...

currentebikes.com

Regenerative braking: able to recover up to 5% energy or less. Makes little sense, especially as it constricts you to a heavy Direct Drive motor that you need to pedal constantly or the bike will stop.

A Class-2 ebike "has no pedals"? WTF? That's incorrect gibberish. Class-1 thru 3 all have to be fully human operable bicycles. Also, some riders are getting as much as 10% power recapture when riding a heavy bike carrying gear or cargo. But it's not the power that makes a regen motor so appealing to me but rather the ability to save wear-n-tear on brakes. I plan on mounting a hub-motor in my suspension trailer wheel for just that reason, to help with braking. Any power captured will just be the cherry on top.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Did you read guys the article under the link?
What makes Class 1 different from Class 2? The Class 1 ebike has pedals, Class 2 one has none. The maximum speed is the same, 20 mph.

 

[AHicks]

Did you read guys the article under the link?
What makes Class 1 different from Class 2? The Class 1 ebike has pedals, Class 2 one has none. The maximum speed is the same, 20 mph.

Any info that might lead somebody to think a class 2 bikes doesn't have pedals is bad info, period.

Legally, a class 1 has no hand throttle, where the class 2 does (many beleive this is a BS rule that needs to be changed). A class 3 is a class 2 bike that will go 28mph (vs. 20mph on class 1 or 2). That's all there is to it.

 

[BBassett]

Any info that might lead somebody to think a class 2 bikes doesn't have pedals is bad info, period.

Legally, a class 1 has no hand throttle, where the class 2 does (many beleive this is a BS rule that needs to be changed). A class 3 is a class 2 bike that will go 28mph (vs. 20mph on class 1 or 2). That's all there is to it.

Yup. You can find it here - https://www.montaguebikes.com/folding-bikes-blog/2018/03/electric-bicycle-types-explained/

 

[BBassett]

Did you read guys the article under the link?
What makes Class 1 different from Class 2? The Class 1 ebike has pedals, Class 2 one has none. The maximum speed is the same, 20 mph.

Why would I read misleading information? The different classes of ebike have been being used for a couple of years now in America thanks mostly to Californian legislation. They all Must Have fully operable pedals. What makes it a Class-2 ebike is a throttle rather than just pedal assist.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Yup. You can find it here - https://www.montaguebikes.com/folding-bikes-blog/2018/03/electric-bicycle-types-explained/

"Class 2: Throttle
Much like a motorcycle or scooter, a throttle operated e-bike propels the bike forward without any additional pedaling from the rider. Most can provide a variable amount of power depending how far the throttle is pushed. These are much less common than their pedal assist counterparts as many countries have laws that prohibit them entirely. The European Union requires an e-bike only provide power while the pedals are moving forward, so throttle e-bike are most common in the United States and China where little legislation exists to limit their use."

Aha.

The article is very clear. Class 1 and Class 3 must have pedals (spun by the rider) and only differ with different max assistance speed. Class 2 operates without pedaling. Where did you read guys Class 3 may use a throttle?

 

[AHicks]

Stefan, you're overthinking something that should be pretty simple. I can't tell if you are kidding or serious.

A class 2 is capable of being powered by a throttle without pedaling, just like the class 3. That doesn't mean the class 2 doesn't have pedals for pete's sake.

A class one must be pedaled to move. No throttles allowed, which is a stupid law.

 

[ElevenAD]

This^

 

[ElevenAD]

Try a biktrix Ultra or a biktrix hd or checkout a Frey HT1000, you can adjust the watt output in settings on all 3 of these bikes to make them what ever Class you want. To get the range you want go with the bigger battery,17ah or 21ah

 

[BBassett]

Try a biktrix Ultra or a biktrix hd or checkout a Frey HT1000, you can adjust the watt output in settings on all 3 of these bikes to make them what ever Class you want. To get the range you want go with the bigger battery,17ah or 21ah

It's easier to build the ebike you want than it is to find the ebike you want, and even a 21Ah pack isn't big enough for touring.

 

[scout592]

You may want to consider Surface604 and Magnum ebikes. They meet the criteria you mention including price range

 

[FlatSix911]

Here is a handy guide to help clear up any confusion on EBike classification/policy in California... or not.

 

[ElevenAD]

It's easier to build the ebike you want than it is to find the ebike you want.

maybe its easier for you, that does not mean its easier for everyone,not sure why anyone would make a blanked statement like this.

 

[AHicks]

maybe its easier for you, that does not mean its easier for everyone,not sure why anyone would make a blanked statement like this.

Yes, it makes no sense. There are way too many "if's" involved. I'll quarantee you that with no previous experience sourcing the "perfect bike" components is going to be a challenge just for starters. Then there's the assembly. After that there's no help available, as a rule, with any diagnostic work. "Perfect Bike" building best left to experienced DIY'ers, who may chose a production bike anyway.

 

[AHicks]

Here is a handy guide to help clear up any confusion on EBike classification/policy in California... or not.

View attachment 43308

Chart is junk when it comes to the "pedal operated" first column. Unless maybe somebody can explain to me why/how a class 3 is pedal operated while a class 2 is not.

 

[BBassett]

maybe its easier for you, that does not mean its easier for everyone,not sure why anyone would make a blanked statement like this.

Becasue I've done it. If you had you wouldn't be afraid of the possibility. But you are right I guess for people with less.... ability than money buying a POS off the shelf is the Only way to own one.

 

[BBassett]

Here is a handy guide to help clear up any confusion on EBike classification/policy in California... or not.

View attachment 43308

What's most important is the Federal definition of what a low-speed electric bike (LSEB) actually is, and they all must have operable pedals.

Excerpt from Wiki:
The federal Consumer Product Safety Act defines a "low speed electric bicycle" as a two or three wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals, a top speed when powered solely by the motor under 20 mph (32 km/h) and an electric motor that produces less than 750 W (1.01 hp). The Act authorizes the Consumer Product Safety Commission to protect people who ride low-speed electric vehicles by issuing necessary safety regulations.[62] The rules for e-bikes on public roads, sidewalks, and pathways are under state jurisdiction, and vary.

In conformance with legislation adopted by the U.S. Congress defining this category of electric-power bicycle (15 U.S.C. 2085(b)), CPSC rules stipulate that low speed electric bicycles[63] (to include two- and three-wheel vehicles) are exempt from classification as motor vehicles providing they have fully operable pedals, an electric motor of less than 750W (1 hp), and a top motor-powered speed of less than 20 miles per hour (32 km/h) when operated by a rider weighing 170 pounds.[64] An electric bike remaining within these specifications is subject to the CPSC consumer product regulations for a bicycle. Commercially manufactured e-bikes exceeding these power and speed limits are regulated by the federal DOT and NHTSA as motor vehicles, and must meet additional safety requirements. The legislation enacting this amendment to the CPSC is also known as HR 727.[65] The text of HR 727 includes the statement: "This section shall supersede any State law or requirement with respect to low-speed electric bicycles to the extent that such State law or requirement is more stringent than the Federal law or requirements." (Note that this refers to consumer product regulations enacted under the Consumer Product Safety Act. Preemption of more stringent state consumer product regulations does not limit State authority to regulate the use of electric bicycles, or bicycles in general, under state vehicle codes.)

 

[BBassett]

Yes, it makes no sense. There are way too many "if's" involved. I'll quarantee you that with no previous experience sourcing the "perfect bike" components is going to be a challenge just for starters. Then there's the assembly. After that there's no help available, as a rule, with any diagnostic work. "Perfect Bike" building best left to experienced DIY'ers, who may chose a production bike anyway.

Hey Skippy.... you can buy a bike, you know... a whole bike, preassembled and everything, not a box of "components" and hang a mid-drive on it (you can have someone do it for you). Or if you are the type that thinks a hub-motor is worth bothering with (not) go that route. It still amazes me that people will choose an inexpensive off-the-shelf POS ebike rather than even try to get their hands dirty. It's not hard for anyone that isn't afraid to even give it a try. The huge payoff is owning an ebike that is a cut above the rest in every aspect that you want, some are happy with the minimum, other aren't