Um, how do you think we got the experience? Good land man, see YouTube and scores of well-written DIY scripts on any number of websites. We sold hundreds near thousands of kits to first-time builders. The owner sold kits for a decade before selling the shop.
Horse pucky. ANYONE with a bit of ambition some tools and guidance can safely kit a bike. I had lots of customers have an LBS do the take apart and we sold EM3ev batteries that were SAFE well made decent warranty and matching connectors. In my youth, we did most of our own car repairs. We only gave up when electronics became so complex and the cost of the proper tools was astronomical. Fear-mongering kits is a darn shame. Converting a well-fitting great bike one has ridden for some time and is happy with...well what's better? Some overpriced OEM with proprietary parts that lock me into $50-$75 shop rates?
Well... yeah we disagree here cuz I think it does
The OP is using a cargo bike to carry children up a 17% grade. I think its also likely there will be groceries and such on occasion. Thats a pretty heavy duty job. Not super duty, but still I'd say build for the bike to last. You are right we aren't talking about a bike needing a 200 lb cargo limit, so yes there is room to dumb down some, but a steel cassette in a 46T size is available and under $40. Mid-strong chain is the SRAM EX1 at $25. A steel cassette will keep the cluster from digging in - which will happen within 50 miles - and those are not necessarily found on expensive hubs. But that leaves the pawls underneath as the next thing to break. The SunRingles used by WattWagons apparently have a higher torque rating capacity than the DT350 Hybrid I prefer, so probably some money to be saved there.I don't think its overwhelming, but I think there is enough going on here that it makes the bike a bad donor for an upgrade that will do the job for her long term.
It didn't work out well because it was powering a hub motor. All I was saying was upgrading the controller to more amps isn't going to get you very much as a 48v commercial battery can only be counted on for so much, and its not going to suddenly make a bike able to climb a 17% grade no matter how many amps the controller can draw. Give it a normal job like a BBS02 or BBSHD, or a 35a KT... it'll do fine.
Not expensive so much as too expensive to be worth the trouble, with a parts flaw (the wheel size) that can never be fixed.
There you go again. Anyone who has ever rode (ridden? rided?) a bicycle up a hill knows you use gears to go up the hill more easily. Any gear. No need for them to be king sized for the benefit to be realized. The mid drive uses the gears just like a person does. Oddball theories about how they don't work unless a gigantic rear cog is in use don't make any sense, and you don't need to be any kind of expert in anything to know this..
That's the thing! You can pick up a perfect, lightly used one with all the accessories for under $800. Those accessories add up. Then you are ridding a $3800 bike. What happens all the time is that kids grow too heavy for the analog version by the next school year for a mom to pedal in a hilly area. So she buys the electric version and sells the analog.
True if I had a Bafang, the controller would be first on my list, stator change later on-"Citizen Cycle" did this and it made a significant improvement in pulling power( He said it was most bang for buck) The 750 wattBafang I had was rated for 85Nm with a 25 amp controller( the standard setup was around 80 Nm) One of the worst things on a hill is the motor literally giving up.I had this experience on two bikes a better controller fixed them, on the Human part of the equation a smaller chainring or perhaps longer crankarms will give more grunt to pull with and make sure your posture on the bike is correct one size fit all approach sometimes can hinder.
I looked, but maybe not in the right place? I don't see an electric Yuba Kombi for 3300. or anything close to that. A link maybe?
Here you go: Yuba Kombi E5
Not DD. I have done a Bafang 350w G060 fat motor at 36v/15a KT controller, and the same motor at 48v/25a KT controller. Also numerous front and rear 'bigfoot' 750w G060's all with 52v/35a KT controllers. I have also done conversions on freewheel 750's turning them into cassette motors, and have
Kombi analog. Regular $1199. Now $999 for probably the same reason so many others are discounting their bikes
yubabikes.com
yubabikes.com
I doubt the Yuba Kombi E5 will fill the bill. It has Shimano's lowest performance motor, 40NM torque, coupled with a pretty narrow range gear set. A great climber it isn't. Good city cargo bike for relatively flat areas, but no hill climber, especially under load.
I use gears to climb hills with either one of my mid-drives, a Haibike AllMtn Full-Seven and a Yuba Spicy Curry AT. It's my reality every time I ride, not a fantasy.
You're probably right. I was just trying to be helpful in providing @AHicks with a link since he said he could not find the electric Yuba Kombi.
Yeah there was a Surly big easy in my area craigslist for cheap. Might need a fresh battery but it was a good price. Rock solid cargo bike.Well... yeah we disagree here cuz I think it does
I don't think its overwhelming, but I think there is enough going on here that it makes the bike a bad donor for an upgrade that will do the job for her long term.
It didn't work out well because it was powering a hub motor. All I was saying was upgrading the controller to more amps isn't going to get you very much as a 48v commercial battery can only be counted on for so much, and its not going to suddenly make a bike able to climb a 17% grade no matter how many amps the controller can draw. Give it a normal job like a BBS02 or BBSHD, or a 35a KT... it'll do fine.
Not expensive so much as too expensive to be worth the trouble, with a parts flaw (the wheel size) that can never be fixed.
As you know I am not a fan of the Rad bikes, but that frame is very well fit for purpose. One decent choice would be to sell off the current model and acquire an older one .... it had 24" tires? Gut that bike and put a BBSHD on it. Not a BBS02. I've never been happy with half measures and its possible to turn down the power on a BBSHD, but impossible to turn the power UP on a BBS02. Better to run an overbuilt motor at half capacity than to run an adequate one at redline.
A less effort-intensive budget choice: A Yuba Kombi is $999 right now. Buy it and add the motor. They want $3300 for the electrified version so thats a good testimonial to why you may want to DIY that motor addition.
Or throw the budget out the window and look at a Surly Big Easy. I just saw a guy buy one on sale for $2400. Worth mentioning right now is there is a glut of ebikes on the market and you will find retail outlets frequently want to sell cheap. Take advantage of that.
There you go again. Anyone who has ever rode (ridden? rided?) a bicycle up a hill knows you use gears to go up the hill more easily. Any gear. No need for them to be king sized for the benefit to be realized. The mid drive uses the gears just like a person does. Oddball theories about how they don't work unless a gigantic rear cog is in use don't make any sense, and you don't need to be any kind of expert in anything to know this..
If your bike can go up Prescott ave, you can go up anything.Unfortunately thats not going to do her any significant amount of good. If she updates her drivetrain, and on a hub motor, that upgrade is only going to help *her* fight/muscle the bike up the hill. It will be of no help with the motor, which powers the bike thru the axle and is entirely independent of the drivetrain.
I have been there and done that with regard to a big, fat Bafang hub and even with a 52v battery and a 35a controller, you still have a single speed hub motor. There's no real way to fix that with the bike at hand. The cheapest bandaid IS the application of brute force and revised gearing. After that you can try a controller upgrade that will increase your amps to the motor - which equals more torque (not a lot as its just a 48v battery). But even so - on a cargo bike that is at the extreme of extreme duty as bicycles go, you are only going to tick up a couple notches.
If you want to change the game, you go to a mid drive. On mine, on steep hills in my area I climb them at 12-15 mph. This is working hard on the pedals and letting the motor have at it on max pedal assist. If I want to let the motor do the work, I can do that too and just hit the throttle and take a break. On the steepest road in town (Prescott Lane in Monterey CA, just before the turnoff to the army base) - so steep people almost don't believe it when I tell them I can go up it, I am at about 8-10 and my ass is beat at the top. A hub bike has no hope trying this and I have seen Rad Wagon riders who give up as soon as they get to the steep part and go down to try and find another way over (they are available for rent here).
This bike has a 36T front chainring, which really does make a big diff since a mid can use the gears. 11-46T in the back and I can't use the big 46 thanks to the fat tires. But the 42 just under it gets the job done. A hub bike with a cargo load wouldn't have a prayer of conquering the same terrain.
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A conversion of that Wagon would be tough. Mostly because of that oddball wheel size and the implications for the future with it, but also you'll have extra work and cost buying peripherals that aren't meant to work with the controller you'll have to discard. You already know the tire/wheel story I am sure. I did a series on turning a Mongoose Envoy into a really excellent cargo bike, but I don't haul kids, and that bike has 26" wheels which does not go ideally with squirmy little ones. Still, maybe something like this will give you some ideas for an alternative.
Mongoose Envoy – Chapter 8 (Low Cost Builds)
Introduction: The Mongoose Envoy Project Chapter 1: The Raised Rear Deck Chapter 2: Better Brakes Chapter 3: What Kind of Motor? Chapter 4: Motor Choice Chap…talesontwowheels.com
Chivalry is not dead.
Yeah I have to admit once I made it up Prescott, then did it a second time, I decided thats it I am not going to risk my chain any further. I take David back up. On the other hand, going down is a thrill ride and I do sometimes take it down, turn in at the path, onward to Costco or Home Depot etc. Gets me past a lot of tourist traffic. I took these a couple weeks ago
Cool pics. My Mom use to work at the cannery. Awful job...
My mom worked in the orchard. She picked apricots. No joke.
