Hello, and I think I may need to move on?

[PedalUma]

They want $3300 for the electrified version

That's the thing! You can pick up a perfect, lightly used one with all the accessories for under $800. Those accessories add up. Then you are ridding a $3800 bike. What happens all the time is that kids grow too heavy for the analog version by the next school year for a mom to pedal in a hilly area. So she buys the electric version and sells the analog.

 

[AHicks]

It didn't work out well because it was powering a hub motor. All I was saying was upgrading the controller to more amps isn't going to get you very much as a 48v commercial battery can only be counted on for so much, and its not going to suddenly make a bike able to climb a 17% grade no matter how many amps the controller can draw. Give it a normal job like a BBS02 or BBSHD, or a 35a KT... it'll do fine.

I think we're on the same page here for the most part. You're saying "hub motor" which I'm interpreting as a geared hub motor. Maybe you mean a DD?

A less effort-intensive budget choice: A Yuba Kombi is $999 right now. Buy it and add the motor. They want $3300 for the electrified version so thats a good testimonial to why you may want to DIY that motor addition.

I looked, but maybe not in the right place? I don't see an electric Yuba Kombi for 3300. or anything close to that. A link maybe?

 

[Bicyclista]

I looked, but maybe not in the right place? I don't see an electric Yuba Kombi for 3300. or anything close to that. A link maybe?

Here you go: Yuba Kombi E5

Don't mean to steal your thunder @m@Robertson, but I happened to be looking at the Yuba website just now.

 

[m@Robertson]

I think we're on the same page here for the most part. You're saying "hub motor" which I'm interpreting as a geared hub motor. Maybe you mean a DD?

Not DD. I have done a Bafang 350w G060 fat motor at 36v/15a KT controller, and the same motor at 48v/25a KT controller. Also numerous front and rear 'bigfoot' 750w G060's all with 52v/35a KT controllers. I have also done conversions on freewheel 750's turning them into cassette motors, and have two three more in the shop; one a 500w front, another a 750w front and a spare rear 750w cassette from back when I had to rely on my twin-hub bike. The latter of which will replace a broken front motor on my mid+hub sand rat bike. I've got two G020's both rated at an unusual 48v/500w, mounted into 20" wheels that I use for front wheel power on my 2wd mid+hub Bullitts. KT 25a controllers. So... 100% geared.

I looked, but maybe not in the right place? I don't see an electric Yuba Kombi for 3300. or anything close to that. A link maybe?

Kombi analog. Regular $1199. Now $999 for probably the same reason so many others are discounting their bikes

Kombi - Yuba Cargo Bikes

The affordable Kombi by Yuba, with a 440 lbs capacity, combines compact design and high durability, perfect for transporting passengers and cargo.

yubabikes.com

And the electric version. Very next item on the menu after the Kombi. The Kombi E5. $3299 Interestingly its listed as out of stock, which I didn't think it was this morning.

Kombi E5 - Yuba Cargo Bikes

The affordable Kombi E5 by Yuba, with Shimano motor and 440 lbs capacity, offers reliable power and compact design, perfect for city cargo and passengers.

yubabikes.com

I don't know if either of these bikes are the best option. However, @LisaJane706 if you join the Cargo Bike Republic on Facebook, you will be in a group of over 16,000 cargo bike owners and you can ask more questions there and talk to an audience who 100% understands what it is you are riding and living.

 

[retiredNH]

Here you go: Yuba Kombi E5

Don't mean to steal your thunder @m@Robertson, but I happened to be looking at the Yuba website just now.

I doubt the Yuba Kombi E5 will fill the bill. It has Shimano's lowest performance motor, 40NM torque, coupled with a pretty narrow range gear set. A great climber it isn't. Good city cargo bike for relatively flat areas, but no hill climber, especially under load.

 

[m@Robertson]

... well there y'go. I am not a fan of manufactured bikes and this is one reason. To get up to decent performance you start looking at big money real fast. On Ebay there are some on auction but nothing is inexpensive. An older Rad Wagon, gutted with component upgrades, is starting to look better.

 

[Bicyclista]

Another "mid drives use the gears to climb hllls" fantasy. Believe in fairies too?

OP needs to sell her bike, and buy one with 48 tooth rear sprocket OEM plus a mid drive. Unfortunately cargo bikes don't come that way.

Really, it is car or gas scooter time for the OP.

I use gears to climb hills with either one of my mid-drives, a Haibike AllMtn Full-Seven and a Yuba Spicy Curry AT. It's my reality every time I ride, not a fantasy.

Many mid-drive cargo bikes come equipped with appropriate gearing for climbing hills. My Yuba has 11-46 teeth cassette, and coupled with its 20-inch rear wheel and 85Nm Bosch Cargo Line motor, it can climb any hill I have encountered in the San Diego area.

If you are going to recommend a car or gas scooter, keep in mind that the OP would have to spend more a lot more for a quality car or scooter. If the OP can afford spending say $5,000, I would instead recommend spending the money on a Yuba cargo bike, or a Tern cargo bike, or similar cargo bike, with a 85Nm mid-drive motor. (But keep in mind that motor specs are whatever the manufacturer says they are, and they are not comparable between brands.)

Others have made good and reasonable DIY recommendations. Only the OP can decide whether she is able to—or wants to—go the DIY route.

 

[Bicyclista]

I doubt the Yuba Kombi E5 will fill the bill. It has Shimano's lowest performance motor, 40NM torque, coupled with a pretty narrow range gear set. A great climber it isn't. Good city cargo bike for relatively flat areas, but no hill climber, especially under load.

You're probably right. I was just trying to be helpful in providing @AHicks with a link since he said he could not find the electric Yuba Kombi.

I am familiar with Bosch and Yamaha motors. I have found Yamaha motors to be much stronger than most Bosch motors. The one exception is the Bosch Cargo Line which is rated at 85Nm and seems to be just as strong as my old Yamaha PW motor (rated at 70Nm, if I remember correctly). I would not hesitate to recommend the Bosch Cargo Line motor or any current Yamaha ebike motor for hill climbing.

 

[SC00CHB00CH]

Well... yeah we disagree here cuz I think it does The OP is using a cargo bike to carry children up a 17% grade. I think its also likely there will be groceries and such on occasion. Thats a pretty heavy duty job. Not super duty, but still I'd say build for the bike to last. You are right we aren't talking about a bike needing a 200 lb cargo limit, so yes there is room to dumb down some, but a steel cassette in a 46T size is available and under $40. Mid-strong chain is the SRAM EX1 at $25. A steel cassette will keep the cluster from digging in - which will happen within 50 miles - and those are not necessarily found on expensive hubs. But that leaves the pawls underneath as the next thing to break. The SunRingles used by WattWagons apparently have a higher torque rating capacity than the DT350 Hybrid I prefer, so probably some money to be saved there.

I don't think its overwhelming, but I think there is enough going on here that it makes the bike a bad donor for an upgrade that will do the job for her long term.

It didn't work out well because it was powering a hub motor. All I was saying was upgrading the controller to more amps isn't going to get you very much as a 48v commercial battery can only be counted on for so much, and its not going to suddenly make a bike able to climb a 17% grade no matter how many amps the controller can draw. Give it a normal job like a BBS02 or BBSHD, or a 35a KT... it'll do fine.

Not expensive so much as too expensive to be worth the trouble, with a parts flaw (the wheel size) that can never be fixed.

As you know I am not a fan of the Rad bikes, but that frame is very well fit for purpose. One decent choice would be to sell off the current model and acquire an older one .... it had 24" tires? Gut that bike and put a BBSHD on it. Not a BBS02. I've never been happy with half measures and its possible to turn down the power on a BBSHD, but impossible to turn the power UP on a BBS02. Better to run an overbuilt motor at half capacity than to run an adequate one at redline.

A less effort-intensive budget choice: A Yuba Kombi is $999 right now. Buy it and add the motor. They want $3300 for the electrified version so thats a good testimonial to why you may want to DIY that motor addition.

Or throw the budget out the window and look at a Surly Big Easy. I just saw a guy buy one on sale for $2400. Worth mentioning right now is there is a glut of ebikes on the market and you will find retail outlets frequently want to sell cheap. Take advantage of that.


There you go again. Anyone who has ever rode (ridden? rided?) a bicycle up a hill knows you use gears to go up the hill more easily. Any gear. No need for them to be king sized for the benefit to be realized. The mid drive uses the gears just like a person does. Oddball theories about how they don't work unless a gigantic rear cog is in use don't make any sense, and you don't need to be any kind of expert in anything to know this..

Yeah there was a Surly big easy in my area craigslist for cheap. Might need a fresh battery but it was a good price. Rock solid cargo bike.

 

[Rideagain]

Unfortunately thats not going to do her any significant amount of good. If she updates her drivetrain, and on a hub motor, that upgrade is only going to help *her* fight/muscle the bike up the hill. It will be of no help with the motor, which powers the bike thru the axle and is entirely independent of the drivetrain.

I have been there and done that with regard to a big, fat Bafang hub and even with a 52v battery and a 35a controller, you still have a single speed hub motor. There's no real way to fix that with the bike at hand. The cheapest bandaid IS the application of brute force and revised gearing. After that you can try a controller upgrade that will increase your amps to the motor - which equals more torque (not a lot as its just a 48v battery). But even so - on a cargo bike that is at the extreme of extreme duty as bicycles go, you are only going to tick up a couple notches.

If you want to change the game, you go to a mid drive. On mine, on steep hills in my area I climb them at 12-15 mph. This is working hard on the pedals and letting the motor have at it on max pedal assist. If I want to let the motor do the work, I can do that too and just hit the throttle and take a break. On the steepest road in town (Prescott Lane in Monterey CA, just before the turnoff to the army base) - so steep people almost don't believe it when I tell them I can go up it, I am at about 8-10 and my ass is beat at the top. A hub bike has no hope trying this and I have seen Rad Wagon riders who give up as soon as they get to the steep part and go down to try and find another way over (they are available for rent here).

This bike has a 36T front chainring, which really does make a big diff since a mid can use the gears. 11-46T in the back and I can't use the big 46 thanks to the fat tires. But the 42 just under it gets the job done. A hub bike with a cargo load wouldn't have a prayer of conquering the same terrain.
View attachment 139663

A conversion of that Wagon would be tough. Mostly because of that oddball wheel size and the implications for the future with it, but also you'll have extra work and cost buying peripherals that aren't meant to work with the controller you'll have to discard. You already know the tire/wheel story I am sure. I did a series on turning a Mongoose Envoy into a really excellent cargo bike, but I don't haul kids, and that bike has 26" wheels which does not go ideally with squirmy little ones. Still, maybe something like this will give you some ideas for an alternative.

Private Site

talesontwowheels.com

If your bike can go up Prescott ave, you can go up anything.
I had a VW out of high school(long... long... time ago) and avoided at all cost.. up or down! My Mom refused to ride with me and had to take David or Forest all the way to lighthouse.
As for Lisa's problem... I don't think she can do anything with the wagon. It's a good heavy bike. But the hill she is talking about must be pretty steep and with all that weight I don't know anything she can do. The kids are only going to get bigger and the problem worse. Maybe in the future there will be a 1000 or 1200w hub model.... maybe they will work.
She should call rad bikes. They been in it a long time and might have some ideas or a referral to someone.

 

[tomjasz]

The poor OP is likely thinking "WTF did I do..."

i can’t stop laughing…

LisaJane706​

New Member
Joined Saturday at 7:59 PM
Last seen Monday at 5:58 PM

 

[m@Robertson]

If your bike can go up Prescott ave, you can go up anything.
I had a VW out of high school(long... long... time ago) and avoided at all cost.. up or down! My Mom refused to ride with me and had to take David or Forest all the way to lighthouse.

Yeah I have to admit once I made it up Prescott, then did it a second time, I decided thats it I am not going to risk my chain any further. I take David back up. On the other hand, going down is a thrill ride and I do sometimes take it down, turn in at the path, onward to Costco or Home Depot etc. Gets me past a lot of tourist traffic. I took these a couple weeks ago

The bike can take anything on the street, but to do the dunes I have to have a 2wd bike to keep the front from submerging. This was the one/only day I took the BFD out into the sand.

 

[Rideagain]

Yeah I have to admit once I made it up Prescott, then did it a second time, I decided thats it I am not going to risk my chain any further. I take David back up. On the other hand, going down is a thrill ride and I do sometimes take it down, turn in at the path, onward to Costco or Home Depot etc. Gets me past a lot of tourist traffic. I took these a couple weeks ago

View attachment 139757View attachment 139759

The bike can take anything on the street, but to do the dunes I have to have a 2wd bike to keep the front from submerging. This was the one/only day I took the BFD out into the sand.

Cool pics. My Mom use to work at the cannery. Awful job...

 

[Slaphappygamer]

Cool pics. My Mom use to work at the cannery. Awful job...

My mom worked in the orchard. She picked apricots. No joke.

 

[Rideagain]

My mom worked in the orchard. She picked apricots. No joke.

Wow. Pretty tough back then. Parents use to teach kids, if you wanted it, you worked for it and you fixed it.
And kids think they have it hard these days.

 

[SC00CHB00CH]

Farming can be therapeutic , I picked Okra as a kid.

 

[Slaphappygamer]

Wow. Pretty tough back then. Parents use to teach kids, if you wanted it, you worked for it and you fixed it.
And kids think they have it hard these days.

That’s what I took away from knowing how she grew up. I’ve been working hard, bought an ebike, and am fully expecting to fix it when needed.

My father, retired and is now tending a garden in his backyard. His grand-mother also worked in her yard. Up until her 90’s, she would mow her own lawn. She lived to be 106!

 

[Desser]

Hello, thanks for having me! I am an experienced cyclist, but relatively new to the e-bike world, and new to cargo bikes. Previously I was hauling the kids in a Burley on an acoustic bike. We sold the second car almost 2 years ago and I transport the kids almost exclusively by bike.

I bought this Wagon 4 in April (1,300 miles and counting!). So far it’s been great (tyre recall notwithstanding), but I have definitely found some (2) limitations. I am moving house, and the new house has an insane hill leading up to it. Google shows the grade at 17%, and of course, there is a tight turn at the bottom so I can’t get a run at it. The first attempt, I didn’t make it. With my kid on the back, I had to jump off (at 5’4”, I would not call this a step through at all), keep the bike from falling to either side whilst also keep it from sliding down the hill. It was scary, to say the least. I’ve attempted it with her on the bike one more time and put myself in the right gear and made it, but barely. I have two kids, there’s no way the wagon can handle it.

So, drawback #1, unsure if the 750w motor or the fact that it’s hub driven is the drawback there. Looking for something with more “oomph” to make it up that hill… Drawback #2 is that when walking the bike up the hill with walk assist, the button is so dang touchy. The motor constantly cuts out, and as I mentioned the bike has two kids on it and I’m schlepping up a steep grade; it makes for a very unpleasant experience.

I think I’m married to the long tail format. I’ve tried a few front loaders and I just hate how they ride. That’s a huge responsibility, but there’s definitely a solution. When my grandparents moved out of their old house, we used movers best . They weren’t just movers — they were patient and respectful, taking the time to carefully pack sentimental items and label everything so nothing got lost. They also offered storage options, which was perfect since we didn’t want to rush decisions on what to keep or donate. Having professionals take care of the heavy lifting meant we could focus on supporting our family emotionally during the move.


Looking forward to digging deeper in to the threads. Cargo bikes are a bit niche and so far I haven’t found anything that specifically addresses these issues. In the meantime, thanks for your time, and ride on!

That's a very good story, thank you for sharing.