Have you seen the revised Helios?
- Thread starter Ebiker33
- Start date
I do not think that is true. Last the founders heard a couple places were “competing”, but none were in the US. I asked a couple times if either of them had any bike experience, but it was right as the whole process was falling apart and most questions went unanswered.
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
I
I suspect the frames could be made in the US, but the cost would be higher. Last I heard the two locations Pushkar was considering was India and Mexico.
RandomCrap
Member
I believe that the Mexico option was discarded, and they are coming from India.
BillyDeeFour
Member
Life keeps disrupting my plans to get over to Watt Wagans.
I’ll have my time back to myself in a couple of days and hope to get there. I’ll share what I learn then.Just wondering. Will the new WW Leo be Carbon Fiber or Titanium?
I would think that Leo would be more durable in Titanium for the rigors of Police Duties.
Audiotom
Member
For all the manufactering issues getting components
think of the tens of thousands of new $30k-$80k cars sitting on a lot - waiting for one computer chip
Pushkar
DO our original orders with some modifications carry through?
With the new Helios designs is there a general time estimate?
will they utilize the same components?
more battery capacity?
Will people who’ve been on the list well over a year be able to swap over to a hydra In an expedient manner?
Thanks
think of the tens of thousands of new $30k-$80k cars sitting on a lot - waiting for one computer chip
Pushkar
DO our original orders with some modifications carry through?
With the new Helios designs is there a general time estimate?
will they utilize the same components?
more battery capacity?
Will people who’ve been on the list well over a year be able to swap over to a hydra In an expedient manner?
Thanks
pushkar
Well-Known Member
We are still in frame testing phase. I would say late spring based on initial testing.
Yes, very similar.
Yes, 52V, 21Ah. 21700cells
Yes. For those who have existing orders will be at the top of the list.
RandomCrap
Member
Note the use of 21700 cells instead of 1850s. This is nice! The 18650 is 18 mm diameter x 65 mm length. 21700 is 21 mm x 70 mm. Doesn't sound like a big difference, but in volume the 21700 is almost 50% larger (47%, to be exact). The 18650 typically has about 2.0 to 3.5 Ah in each cell, depending upon quality. The 21700 starts at 3.0 Ah and can go to 5.0 Ah.
Comparative sizes:
This requires a new frame design, with one big honking downtube, but the result should be spectacular. There are other advantages in that there are fewer cells per unit of power, so simpler battery management and fewer connections to fail.
Comparative sizes:
This requires a new frame design, with one big honking downtube, but the result should be spectacular. There are other advantages in that there are fewer cells per unit of power, so simpler battery management and fewer connections to fail.
pushkar
Well-Known Member
We will be using Samsung 50E cells.. so should be max capacity.Note the use of 21700 cells instead of 1850s. This is nice! The 18650 is 18 mm diameter x 65 mm length. 21700 is 21 mm x 70 mm. Doesn't sound like a big difference, but in volume the 21700 is almost 50% larger (47%, to be exact). The 18650 typically has about 2.0 to 3.5 Ah in each cell, depending upon quality. The 21700 starts at 3.0 Ah and can go to 5.0 Ah.
Comparative sizes:
This requires a new frame design, with one big honking downtube, but the result should be spectacular. There are other advantages in that there are fewer cells per unit of power, so simpler battery management and fewer connections to fail.
loamoaf
Active Member
- Region
- USA
Check out the relative watt hours you can get from them at certain current draws and how much voltage sag you get with the 50E's under load. Mooch does great battery benchmarks complete with discharge voltage graphs at various discharge rates, as well as cell temperature taken - very easy to find his benchmark results online! You'll probably want a lower discharge rate on the BMS & 1500W max limit on the controller for the 50E's, or look into Molicel P42A or Lishen LR-2170-SF. The Molicels are 40T killers for high output and the Lishens will deliver more energy than the 50E's at 10A, with lower self heating.
Sounds like you're doing 14s7p in the packs if 21Ah is the capacity for 80-20% charge in which case probably not as big of an ask for the 50E's and my previous point may be moot
pushkar
Well-Known Member
14s4p with 21700 is around 21ah.Check out the relative watt hours you can get from them at certain current draws and how much voltage sag you get with the 50E's under load. Mooch does great battery benchmarks complete with discharge voltage graphs at various discharge rates, as well as cell temperature taken - very easy to find his benchmark results online! You'll probably want a lower discharge rate on the BMS & 1500W max limit on the controller for the 50E's, or look into Molicel P42A or Lishen LR-2170-SF. The Molicels are 40T killers for high output and the Lishens will deliver more energy than the 50E's at 10A, with lower self heating.
Sounds like you're doing 14s7p in the packs if 21Ah is the capacity for 80-20% charge in which case probably not as big of an ask for the 50E's and my previous point may be moot
For 3C discharge rates, there’s plenty of headroom on 50E.
We also have moli cell packs For higher power versions.
I haven’t seen Lishen yet. Will ask supplier to send us some cells to check.
loamoaf
Active Member
- Region
- USA
@pushkar I picked up a few hundred Lishens for my own use at around a little over half the price-per-unit of the 50E's - I bought through a domestic supplier and the lot codes on my boxes were barely a 2 months old so for now it seems like they can keep up production with demand. They're one of Tesla's Shanghai partners so their cell production in the past several years has been almost exclusively oriented towards EV usage with a high cycle life (1,000 @2C, 4.2-2.7V rated, tested slightly higher) and a vent on the negative end in addition to the positive end vent. I was a little dubious when I stumbled across them but the supplier isn't known to sell crummy cells, and a little more research into the company eased my concerns.
I learned the hard way that balancing top capacity cells for ones with a little more headroom in the CDR department goes a long way at the outputs we're demanding from our batteries considering voltage sag & the actual amount of energy a cell can deliver between 80-20% of its voltage. I haven't had the opportunity to test out 50E's in a pack but my 35E 14s5p pack hasn't aged gracefully even staying well under the pack's 40A CDR - and it starts sagging quite a bit under load around 55-60% charge - I would have got a larger practical range from 30Q's despite having a lower capacity.
Mooch's cell benchmarks are a godsend - I'm not in the vaping community but those guys abuse batteries way harder than we do and the explosion they risk are right in their face, so I consider them a reliable source when it comes to batteries lol. Here's the discharge graph for the Lishens against 50E2 & M50T @10A
I learned the hard way that balancing top capacity cells for ones with a little more headroom in the CDR department goes a long way at the outputs we're demanding from our batteries considering voltage sag & the actual amount of energy a cell can deliver between 80-20% of its voltage. I haven't had the opportunity to test out 50E's in a pack but my 35E 14s5p pack hasn't aged gracefully even staying well under the pack's 40A CDR - and it starts sagging quite a bit under load around 55-60% charge - I would have got a larger practical range from 30Q's despite having a lower capacity.
Mooch's cell benchmarks are a godsend - I'm not in the vaping community but those guys abuse batteries way harder than we do and the explosion they risk are right in their face, so I consider them a reliable source when it comes to batteries lol. Here's the discharge graph for the Lishens against 50E2 & M50T @10A
pushkar
Well-Known Member
yes. all of them.
For hydra, it is behind the motor mount. for UC Pro it is above the motor mount, next to the seat tube.
TomD
Well-Known Member
Probably can't support it with a CF frame. I agree though, would have much preferred an unsprung rack, won't be a true R&M slayer would it.
pushkar
Well-Known Member
True. Hard to do on CF.
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