Have you seen the revised Helios?

[vincent]

imo the R and M bikes are very nice but are a totally different bike than these
we have throttle and you dont, we have way more torque
i dont want a bosch powered R and M

we all understand about having a local shop and backup/service but honestly in all my ebikes that has rarely been an issue
i have different bikes have work -mostly mechanical bike work but some electrical in phoenix, tucson, flagstaff, payson
no one has ever turned me away for having ebikes...

and i have NOT had big or even many little problems with my bafang bikes- there are some things like controller settings i would personally change on some of my cheap 1000-1500 bafang hub bikes but they function as they are supposed to

to each his own but i dont really compare the bosch bikes to these, different animals

 

[Lsthrz]

But I’m still staying with large well known brands.

Good to know! I had no idea 2 1/2 guys (with no dog) building custom ebikes might have issues on delivery and support...

 

[Deacon Blues]

@vincent, are you still happy with your UC Pro (or did you get the fat tired version)?
My UC Pro should be delivered within the next two weeks.

 

[reed scott]

This is general statement to cover all industries that are suffering right now.
I feel bad when compounding COVID based delays mess up generally good customer service.
I am in the thick of industries that are suffering from all kinds of delays from not enough truckers, to not enough longshoreman on the docks, to not enough containers, to vendors being outbid on air freight that was locked in but then got outbid, which is allowed by greedy airlines, to people saying I am either retiring or just not going to work right now, effecting the labor pool. And finally there is a worldwide shortage of Lithium for battery makers, they need more and more of it, everything is going cordless with these basic cells.

So when Pushkar says if it weren't for COVID...believe him.
Newer companies would be especially hard hit by this, they have no long standing relationships that have gravitas to fall back onto for help.

Unless you actually work in industry you can't possibly know just how bad it is right now, I have never seen anything like in my many decades of work.
This has laid bare the just in time inventory supply chain mythology as a failure. I don't see it recovering in 2022, as they are suppose to clear through any jam ups before Chinas new years 1 month shutdown and that isn't going to happen.

We had been living in a get it instantly world, it's hard to adjust our expectations in the new reality of never ending delays, and it's super frustrating.
So it's wait, and pay more now.

This is the Build Back Better/Great Reset/Green New Deal. You get what you vote for.

 

[BashCram]

This is the Build Back Better/Great Reset/Green New Deal. You get what you vote for.

Not while Manchin and Sinema are hold outs. Democrats are still fighting amongst themselves and dropped most of the human investments like community college and family leave. In any case the build back better act hasn’t passed yet and will be stripped down. But this is off topic.

 

[vincent]

Very happy with it, love the ride on it
Love the archon controller


If I had it to over again would have done fat tire frame but it hasn’t been an issue enough for me to order another frame and swap it all out…
at some point in the future - maybe

 

[Leon S. Kennedy]

I'm told Innotrace does NOT recommend greasing as Simon did, way too much grease!

How is the controller affected by grease on the motor gears?

 

[Zachdds]

.

4. Folks like are extremely happy to pay 10k for a bike (RM / Specialized) worth 4k in parts if its backed up with good service, physical locations, after sales support etc. I am absolutely thrilled you liked the service with RM, and we hope to emulate that as we move forward. With the new Helios, and all other upcoming bikes, we are also going through a dealer model.

when I look at r&m bikes, they seem to be specced out nicely. They have a full suspension that matches up with Hydra the closest.
Yes 11k but that is 2 integrated batteries. Fox shocks, name brand motor and sweet looking display, electric shifting rohloff. Full suspension with gates belt. Super nova light, luggage rack, hell they even give you a shock pump.

Granted that was not their 7k version, but spec out a bike like that on ww and I would assume you would be close to 10 and still not able to match all the features. That is not a 4K in raw cost.

So if we want to run them down for their markup do you mind sharing yours? When I spec out a similar bike on watts wagon, I am very close to that price. So to act like you get better components for the same price is simply not true.

Superdelite mountain – Peak climber | Riese & Müller

No destination too high, no ride too far, no descent too steep. With Control Technology.

www.r-m.de

I also love the cable management done in this bike compared to the ww version. I do not understand why all ebikes are not setting it up to look like this.

 

[opimax]

@Leon, I just had the motor replaced on my wife’s bike. It fixed the same issues you had, noisy, power drop out. I paid $100 to a shop plus 20 tip. The motor area now has creak, the belt started dropping off and slips if I use power level 4 or higher and pedal hard, especially on turns. I will be calling Jonas at Watt to see what I can do next.

I called while typing , looking into it and my bike so wait to hear back. I can still ride a bike 100 miles as of now albeit in power level 3 but that is still f***ing fast!

@Zachdds , I have a bike with the latest Bosch speed motor and I have an UC from WattWagon. I live near a pretty flat paved trail, some hills. When I do my 100 mile trail run I have to plan for an extra hour if I take the Bosch powered . Some of this lost time may be me but the bike is just slower .I am not a trained rider but ride a lot. I have a slow cadence when I pedal that Bosch won’t make power at my slow cadence , I go very slow up hill and have a hard time keeping speed over 22 mph, even on flats, too much effort too push unless I get to a Clown level of pedaling for me. I have had a few Stromers, a BH Emotion, Trek and a couple WattWagons. I enjoyed the Trek except the Bosch motor and early drive train wearing out but it is my least enjoyable to ride because of the motor, this is all from my experience and my opinion. You may be happy with your power but it is a drawback to me

 

[scrambler]

when I look at r&m bikes, they seem to be specced out nicely. They have a full suspension that matches up with Hydra the closest.
Yes 11k but that is 2 integrated batteries. Fox shocks, name brand motor and sweet looking display, electric shifting rohloff. Full suspension with gates belt. Granted that was not their 7k version, but spec out a bike like that on ww and I would assume you would be close to 10 and still not able to match all the features.

So if we want to run them down for their makeup do you mind sharing yours?

Superdelite mountain – Peak climber | Riese & Müller

No destination too high, no ride too far, no descent too steep. With Control Technology.

www.r-m.de

It is all about the Motor/controller power combo.

If the 250W Bosch is all you need, by all means, a safe known entity like R&M makes total sense.

If you want more, then there are not that many choices for well and modular specked bikes

 

[Zachdds]

It is all about the Motor/controller power combo.

If the 250W Bosch is all you need, by all means, a safe known entity like R&M makes total sense.

If you want more, then there are not that many choices for well and modular specked bikes

I understand that. Not saying it is a better bike, but to claim that it is only 4K in parts and you are paying for name only is simply not true. When you compare price points to ww they are similar in terms of components. With the Bosch motor probably costing more then the more powerful bafang.

Ww certainly has a bigger motor, but with it being capped at 750 watts going forward, I don’t know why you would want to carry that extra weight compared to the m600 that also does 750 watts.

 

[vincent]

Having owned both the M600 and the ultra I can say they are two very different motors

And I like them both but for different reasons

 

[scrambler]

but with it being capped at 750 watts going forward, I don’t know why you would want to carry that extra weight compared to the m600 that also does 750 watts.

Is that a fact, where did you get the info that WW would not allow programming of the Archon beyond that?

I saw they are selling the bike now as a Class3 which is good for legal reasons, but they also provide the option of the programming harness, so I was under the impression, one could still unleash the 2300W using the Archon programing....

 

[TomD]

How is the controller affected by grease on the motor gears?

I assume the motor has to work harder with too much grease so could reduce efficiency and also overheat the controller. I would confirm with Watt Wagons if it's ok to grease like Simon did but recall hearing it was no longer advised.

 

[TomD]

Is that a fact, where did you get the info that WW would not allow programming of the Archon beyond that?

I saw they are selling the bike now as a Class3 which is good for legal reasons, but they also provide the option of the programming harness, so I was under the impression, one could still unleash the 2300W using the Archon programing....

It was mentioned in the founder forum their prospective liability insurance provider required the motor sold at legal limits but was ok if the customer programmed it to whatever they wanted post sale.

 

[scrambler]

It was mentioned in the founder forum their prospective liability insurance provider required the motor sold at legal limits but was ok if the customer programmed it to whatever they wanted post sale.

That is what I suspected, thanks for confirming

 

[Deacon Blues]

I presently ride a Cannondale Lefty 3, with the gen 4 Bosch motor. It will be interesting to compare my Lefty 3 to my (soon to be delivered) new UC Pro.

 

[opimax]

Doubt you will notice difference….except everything.

Hopefully mostly good for you!

 

[vincent]

I don’t know much about the lefty And don’t have time to look it up but I imagine they are completely different beast

Cannot wait to hear your feedback, I hope you love it

 

[TomD]

Depends. Without Archon upgrade the Ultra would feel less refined. With Archon upgrade not too much difference at lower PAS, probably going notice the non-motor related differences more than anything. Once you peak at 500W+ the motor differences will become apparent. You'll appreciate the extra power to pedal without much effort beyond 20 mph as well as torque on hills. When I go back to riding my euro-spec I can still tackle the same hills, just not as fast.