Happy wife, Happy Life!

[tomjasz]

Jeez, it's like reading a post Joe Btfsplk aka Joe Blackcloud might have posted.

While forums may show or reveal problems your declarations are anecdotal. We seldom get the entire story. Sounds more like a crap eBike manufacturer or a suspicious riding style

 

[dynamic]

Aren't we rather talking about an individual incompetent LBS?
Has it ever occur to you, @dynamic?

A shop that cannot tell the left from the right crank does not inspire confidence.

Nether does a company who can’t install the left and right crank correctly at the factory.

If the IGH issues are purely an LBS support problem then specialized still needs to step up on support and training of the LBS for these models. The LBS can’t be expected to be experts on new complex models they have never seen before. If specialized can’t step up and help, they are still at fault.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

specialized still needs to step up on support and training of the LBS for these models.

How do you know?
The fact the people in your LBS probably do not participate in the training does not mean the brand does not make such trainings.
How come the personnel at my LBS are as competent as to rebuild my Vado 5.0 into 6.0 given only the old e-bike and a bare new frame? Perhaps they do participate in training?

I do not believe in the story of the reversely installed cranks on your Vado in the factory. Even if that's true, how come a qualified bike mechanic did not notice pedals screwing into the cranks into the wrong direction?

There are only two Specialized riders in these fora that experience constant issues: GuruUno and Dynamic. I wonder what makes you people so different from the rest...

 

[dynamic]

How do you know?
The fact the people in your LBS probably do not participate in the training does not mean the brand does not make such trainings.
How come the personnel at my LBS are as competent as to rebuild my Vado 5.0 into 6.0 given only the old e-bike and a bare new frame? Perhaps they do participate in training?

I do not believe in the story of the reversely installed cranks on your Vado in the factory. Even if that's true, how come a qualified bike mechanic did not notice pedals screwing into the cranks into the wrong direction?

There are only two Specialized riders in these fora that experience constant issues: GuruUno and Dynamic. I wonder what makes you people so different from the rest...

Stop making useless connections to things that aren't relevant. I have already said, my LBS should have caught the crank arms. They didn't. It doesn't change the fact that 1) the crank arms mis-installation was caught by me *not* the LBS. And that means it happened at the factory since they come pre-installed on this model. Or are you saying my LBS took them off and re-installed them backwards for no apparent reason? and 2) that the bike still can't control the pedal pace via mastermind. This was on day one, before it was ridden.

I don't have a specialized owned store to do my maintenance. This is what I have. This store support goes like this, LBS: "Hey specialized, the bike is doing X and we don't understand it, what do you think the problem is?" Specialized responds: "Try Y". And we go in that loop until it is fixed.

I would assume the specialized reps that my LBS contacts should be sufficiently trained to support this bike. Yes?

And FYI: Specialized does offer some training ( not IGH specific that I know of ), however it is prohibitively expensive for a single small bike shop to send people to California to receive said training. I asked the shop manager about it.

And finally, there are many more than Guru and I. We are simply the vocal ones. Read the threads. You should be able to reference at least 2-3 more recently by name. If you want to turn a blind eye to it, that's all you.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I would assume the specialized reps that my LBS contacts should be sufficiently trained to support this bike. Yes?

They should be willing to be trained. They apparently are not trained because they appear not willing to be trained.

1) the crank arms mis-installation was caught by me *not* the LBS.

Were I a regional director of the brand and heard of that, I would immediately make a little investigation to find out whether that store deserved the dealership.

 

[dynamic]

They should be willing to be trained. They apparently are not trained because they appear not willing to be trained.

Were I a regional director of the brand and heard of that, I would immediately make a little investigation to find out whether that store deserved the dealership.

You keep trying to divert blame to the LBS. Specialized built a bike wrong that also wasn’t working right on delivery.

Why is it so hard a concept for you that Specialized manufacturing messed up? And then has shown repeatedly that they don’t know what to do to fix these bikes in short order?

Why is that so unbelievable for you?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You only have the word of your LBS that the cranks were reversed at the factory.

The fact you are on nth Specialized e-bike that does not work sheds bad light on your LBS that is even not capable to set the right tension on the drive belt.

 

[dynamic]

You only have the word of your LBS that the cranks were reversed at the factory.

The fact you are on nth Specialized e-bike that does not work sheds bad light on your LBS that is even not capable to set the right tension on the drive belt.

These bikes come with the cranks preinstalled. This is multiple sources not just my LBS. You are suggesting they flipped them. Again, with even less info than I have about it.

How do you know the belt tension is set wrong? Or was that just an assumption? What is it with the inability to accept that specialized is showing incompetency just as much as the LBS? Why is that impossible to you?

 

[tomjasz]

You two deserve each other. Almost true...

 

[dynamic]

You two deserve each other. Almost true...

This, dear sir, is the truest thing you have said.

 

[mschwett]

These bikes come with the cranks preinstalled. This is multiple sources not just my LBS. You are suggesting they flipped them. Again, with even less info than I have about it.

How do you know the belt tension is set wrong? Or was that just an assumption? What is it with the inability to accept that specialized is showing incompetency just as much as the LBS? Why is that impossible to you?

You know, now that I think about it, it’s probably no less likely that the shop swapped them than that they were wrong in the first place. There’s really no way to know.

Guy in bike shop unpacks bike, grabs a wrong pedal, it won’t go in. Not that familiar with said bike, he looks at the cranks, says WTF they’re backwards (remember that they look the same, unlike a non-mid-drive bike) and swaps them. I agree it seems stupid and crazy, but remember that we have another forum member who brought a mid drive specialized e bike to his LBS with the cranks on correctly and got the bike back with them WRONG.

Bottom line, the shop is responsible for final assembly. They were responsible for installing pedals. They did not deliver to you a bike with a right pedal on the right side. The buck stops with them on that one, whichever way the cranks were on in the box. That’s sorta the entire purpose of the dealer model vs DTC. They get paid money to deliver you a working bike.

The other issues, I have no idea. Sounds frustrating, maybe it’s just the IGH models, maybe it’s the shop, maybe it‘s you. I’ve purchased four Specialized bikes and have not had any such mysterious major problems. I will relate a story : my S-Works Aethos was making a maddening clicking sound on each pedal rotation. It really really sounded like the bottom bracket area. Had the shop do a creak chase. They thought they fixed it, but it came back. I replaced the pedals. Still there. Brought it to shop again. Told them all the things I’d done, including replacing the pedals. They did a thorough cleaning, lubing, etc, said they thought it was gone. It came right back. Was about to go all Karen on them when, towards the end of a long ride where it was clicking the whole time, it just totally stopped after a red light. WTF. I unclipped and clipped back in and it came back.

When I got home, I removed the left pedal (the one i unclip from at stop lights), used a brush to clean out the threads in the crank, and the pedal threads, reapplied lube, reassembled, and guess what? Totally gone. 2,000 miles later not a single click. All that griping to the shop and all that work and it was caused by something I did, and it persisted through a pedal replacement, again by me. What on earth was it, no idea, a piece of sand or grit in there that was causing some creak on every downstroke? Some wierd titanium to aluminum stiction? When you don’t know… you don’t know.

 

[dynamic]

Bottom line, the shop is responsible for final assembly.

Agreed. Again, the shop messed up. But if the cranks came wrong, what else could have been built wrong at the factory causing the mastermind to not realize it is an IGH bike? Is the LBS responsible for that? Do they use a slightly different revision of the motor or mastermind on IGH bikes? Is the LBS responsible if they sent the bike with the wrong one? The LBS should maybe notice that, but specialized is still responsible for the mistake. Cranks are (should be) an easy catch/fix for the LBS. Not every manufacturing problem will be.

That’s sorta the entire purpose of the dealer model vs DTC

This is Specialized version of DTC. It’s a bit flawed.

The other issues, I have no idea. Sounds frustrating, maybe it’s just the IGH models, maybe it’s the shop, maybe it‘s you.

It has to be just IGH models for these. These specific issues can’t exist on chain. No pedal pace control. No hub calibrations. On my first bike it could be me. On this one, it came not working on day one. It being my wife’s bike I test road it once to confirm the issues myself after they happened on her fit test ride (and we got it back after reporting both issues). I haven’t dealt with the gearing issue on my bike yet. And, I only noticed that because mission control loaded up my previous screen set for mastermind automatically. So I could see the gear range indicator never hits the lowest gear. (Also, first “real” ride. Meaning, I may have “broken” this one on the 1 mile ride home).

It may also be worth noting that almost every report appears to involve 5.0 models with the automatic regardless of the flaw. That could have both functional and perception based reasons. But I couldn’t find reports on 4.0 or 3.0 models of IGH.

 

[dynamic]

I think blaming the LBS is pretty short sighted. I had mentioned earlier that this shop can't send people to California for training. It's not that they don't want to, it's that it makes exactly zero financial sense. This is not a high volume, high end bike shop. The only IGH models they have sold have been *to me* (yes, I asked). They don't stock 5.0 in any electric bike and only some 4.0. If training existed for IGH models (and I don't know that it does, the training I am talking about was to do motor disassembly/repair which specialized doesn't want you to do unless you have been trained. It's also optional because the typical answer is, wait for it.... new motor), would it make financial sense to send someone to California based on D2C sales (read, less money made by the bike shop) for bikes sold to a single customer? An Aside: I believe that specific motor training is geared more toward repairs/maintenance of the bikes outside of warranty. Motor belts can wear out (or whatever mechanism that particular motor is using). A shop certified with training can fix it with specialized blessing. However, a shop can also fix it without specialized blessing at that point as there is no warranty to void.

The only answer here is specialized steps up and takes responsibility and assists, or they live with a poor reputation. Other arguments are simply ignoring the economic reality of the region.

For all of you with great LBS that may prevent these issues, even on IGH bikes... good for you. But please don't absolve Specialized of responsibility because some of us don't have access to high volume experienced LBS across all models. (again, I do not believe I would be having the same experience on chain models even at this LBS.)

And again, if this is purely an LBS training issue, Specialized support should be saying "Hey, it's probably X" and get it right on the first attempt. And if Specialized can't do that, I honestly don't know how the LBS should have the ability to do that (honestly, at any volume, but much less so a smaller LBS with no experience on a specific model).

I work from the assumption that specialized is big enough to do warranty claims analytics to target the most common problems and address them appropriately at the right level. Whether it's a design, training, manufacturing or documentation issue. My experiences indicate that they don't do any such thing or at least don't use that information to improve support. If their "warranty claims" are simply a way to document shipping parts to the LBS and all of this (analysis, debugging... etc) is expected to be handled 100% by the LBS, then there is zero hope anytime there is a new product with unique maintenance issues. The LBS network will take years to "catch-up" organically for new products. Even longer when those products are not widely used in a particular region (for any reason). And the people who will bear the brunt of that will be customers like me. And Guru. And Onimaru... etc.

As an enterprise software architect, I see a system riddled with holes here. For which Specialized and the LBS share responsibility. At this time, Specialized has taken significant steps putting more pressure on this problem with its implementation of D2C.

End of Rant.

Happy Riding!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I had mentioned earlier that this shop can't send people to California for training. It's not that they don't want to, it's that it makes exactly zero financial sense. This is not a high volume, high end bike shop.

You have admitted yourself your LBS is incompetent. The reasons are irrelevant. Yet you continue blaming Specialized.

The only answer here is specialized steps up and takes responsibility and assists, or they live with a poor reputation. Other arguments are simply ignoring the economic reality of the region.

Specialized has to do nothing except depriving that store dealership. You do not need to sell Specialized if you are unable to do it. Let that LBS sell something simple, or do not sell e-bikes.

Sorry for saying the above but you had issues with any Specialized e-bike obtained from that specific store. While most of users don't. Care to analyse why? (What does your LBS do for Specialized if they only can sell e-bikes to a single individual? I will tell you: your LBS is acting against Specialized).

 

[mschwett]

…
It may also be worth noting that almost every report appears to involve 5.0 models with the automatic regardless of the flaw. That could have both functional and perception based reasons. But I couldn’t find reports on 4.0 or 3.0 models of IGH.

that’s interesting. i suspect there’s a glitch in the works somewhere that affects or affected some subset of 5.0 IGH bikes. it certainly isn’t all of them, and it obviously isn’t none. problems arise in all complex systems, but obviously the partnership of specialized and this particular LBS is failing to resolve them. they both need to up their game, but given that there are tens of thousands of other satisfied customers of specialized and other LBS, it’s hard for me to see how the majority of the fail here isn’t the LBS. specialized should require their dealers to get appropriate training. it costs a few grand to send someone to HQ for a week. it’s not like they’re located on the moon.

 

[dynamic]

You have admitted yourself your LBS is incompetent. The reasons are irrelevant. Yet you continue blaming Specialized.

The fact that you think a guy putting pedals on wrong as an honest mistake irrevocably means "The entire LBS is incompetent" says everything that needs to be said. Stop judging people without any context. You don't know. You would feel like crap if that guy came to work having just been served divorce papers and was a bit distracted. Just stop judging people when you are clueless about any context around them.

Care to analyse why?

They don't sell the IGH models. They sell other electric models and support them. So lets analyze why: I have had 1 IGH non-delivery due to a D2C black hole (for which myself, the LBS and Specialized all play a part) and 3 IGH models delivered with varying problems. All 5.0 IGH como or vado. I have *zero* experience with any other model. So, is the conclusion that Specialized has built a garbage IGH lineup? Again, you have gone straight to judging the LBS instead of considering the possibility that Specialized plays a role in these problems. Why?

The answer is your own bias. You are finding any excuse to blame the LBS to protect your precious belief that specialized can do no wrong.

What's the simplest answer? 1) We know the crank arms were installed wrong. We know they come pre-installed (if you would like to dispute this, call your dealer and ask them on *IGH* models). 2) We know the IGH features were not working or present on the first ride. 3) We know that my current vado and previous vado had those same things working (though still has the low gear display question).

Occam's Razor: Simplest explanation here is the como came out of the box with build issues from the manufacturer. And the dealer failed to catch them before delivering the bike. Assuming the dealer didn't *actively cause* them as evidenced by not breaking two other deliveries in this way. Occam's Razor: specialized built and delivered a broken bike. LBS didn't catch the one issue they could have corrected. Case closed.

tens of thousands of other satisfied customers of specialized and other LBS

Of IGH models? Honestly, not that I have seen. In nearly every reddit/forum post I have followed, 3-6 months later OP: "Bike is in the shop and they can't solve it". Seriously. Reddit is scary. While I agree that the LBS will ultimately be *the* line of defense for these issues, the pattern of this across multiple LBS is distinctly another sign of Specialized not sufficiently skilling up (through required or ease of access training, read: virtual) their network. Again, this is a comment limited purely to *IGH* models. Not Specialized support of other models. I think specialized is used to the LBS leading the effort, and frankly, having the knowledge on site, but belt/IGH has thrown all of that out of whack.

it’s hard for me to see how the majority of the fail here isn’t the LBS

Disagree (I should say potentially disagree). We don't know that Specialized even has trainings around this. And none of that matters if Specialized delivered a broken bike (this is an *IF* for the sake of this comment). There should be someone on this planet that would hear the words "Mastermind doesn't realize it is attached to an IGH bike" and immediately knows the answer. But that person isn't in my LBS (nor is it "reasonable" to expect them to be there, as outlined above). And, they quite possibly aren't accessible to the LBS through specialized support channels (as evidenced by my previous bout with IGH problems). And, Specialized, being the owner of the information necessary to answer that question is also the one responsible for distributing the answer. Now, if it turns out the answer to this is in dealer accessible documentation, then I will start blaming the LBS more actively. Hence the potentially disagree.

If the wiring harness actually fixes it: Specialized delivered a broken bike (there is no "normal" scenario where a simple bike build by the LBS should be effecting the wiring harness). If the wiring harness doesn't fix it: Specialized doesn't have the internal support network to support this model. I don't see how those two statements land in "It's primarily the LBS fault" territory. Nor do I find either of those statements "extreme". Particularly in light of the fact that no one seems to know how IGH models actually work, agree on the correct belt tension, or have any understanding of how the automatic communicates with the mastermind unit.

Again, blaming the LBS with only the information we have is jumping the gun on these specific models. Occam's razor: the simplest answer here is that the crucial piece of knowledge to get things connected is missing. Is there a pairing process that re-connects mastermind to enviolo and Specialized hasn't suggested it? We don't know. The LBS doesn't know. The only one who can possibly be reasonably expected to know does not have a good track record at fixing these things currently.

 

[mschwett]

The fact that you think a guy putting pedals on wrong as an honest mistake irrevocably means "The entire LBS is incompetent" says everything that needs to be said. Stop judging people without any context. You don't know. You would feel like crap if that guy came to work having just been served divorce papers and was a bit distracted. Just stop judging people when you are clueless about any context around them.



They don't sell the IGH models. They sell other electric models and support them. So lets analyze why: I have had 1 IGH non-delivery due to a D2C black hole (for which myself, the LBS and Specialized all play a part) and 3 IGH models delivered with varying problems. All 5.0 IGH como or vado. I have *zero* experience with any other model. So, is the conclusion that Specialized has built a garbage IGH lineup? Again, you have gone straight to judging the LBS instead of considering the possibility that Specialized plays a role in these problems. Why?

The answer is your own bias. You are finding any excuse to blame the LBS to protect your precious belief that specialized can do no wrong.

What's the simplest answer? 1) We know the crank arms were installed wrong. We know they come pre-installed (if you would like to dispute this, call your dealer and ask them on *IGH* models). 2) We know the IGH features were not working or present on the first ride. 3) We know that my current vado and previous vado had those same things working (though still has the low gear display question).

Occam's Razor: Simplest explanation here is the como came out of the box with build issues from the manufacturer. And the dealer failed to catch them before delivering the bike. Assuming the dealer didn't *actively cause* them as evidenced by not breaking two other deliveries in this way. Occam's Razor: specialized built and delivered a broken bike. LBS didn't catch the one issue they could have corrected. Case closed.



Of IGH models? Honestly, not that I have seen. In nearly every reddit/forum post I have followed, 3-6 months later OP: "Bike is in the shop and they can't solve it". Seriously. Reddit is scary. While I agree that the LBS will ultimately be *the* line of defense for these issues, the pattern of this across multiple LBS is distinctly another sign of Specialized not sufficiently skilling up (through required or ease of access training, read: virtual) their network. Again, this is a comment limited purely to *IGH* models. Not Specialized support of other models. I think specialized is used to the LBS leading the effort, and frankly, having the knowledge on site, but belt/IGH has thrown all of that out of whack.



Disagree (I should say potentially disagree). We don't know that Specialized even has trainings around this. And none of that matters if Specialized delivered a broken bike (this is an *IF* for the sake of this comment). There should be someone on this planet that would hear the words "Mastermind doesn't realize it is attached to an IGH bike" and immediately knows the answer. But that person isn't in my LBS (nor is it "reasonable" to expect them to be there, as outlined above). And, they quite possibly aren't accessible to the LBS through specialized support channels (as evidenced by my previous bout with IGH problems). And, Specialized, being the owner of the information necessary to answer that question is also the one responsible for distributing the answer. Now, if it turns out the answer to this is in dealer accessible documentation, then I will start blaming the LBS more actively. Hence the potentially disagree.

If the wiring harness actually fixes it: Specialized delivered a broken bike (there is no "normal" scenario where a simple bike build by the LBS should be effecting the wiring harness). If the wiring harness doesn't fix it: Specialized doesn't have the internal support network to support this model. I don't see how those two statements land in "It's primarily the LBS fault" territory. Nor do I find either of those statements "extreme". Particularly in light of the fact that no one seems to know how IGH models actually work, agree on the correct belt tension, or have any understanding of how the automatic communicates with the mastermind unit.

Again, blaming the LBS with only the information we have is jumping the gun on these specific models. Occam's razor: the simplest answer here is that the crucial piece of knowledge to get things connected is missing. Is there a pairing process that re-connects mastermind to enviolo and Specialized hasn't suggested it? We don't know. The LBS doesn't know. The only one who can possibly be reasonably expected to know does not have a good track record at fixing these things currently.

true, we don’t really have much info on the IGH models. i looked at a couple at a few of my LBS (ultimately way too big and heavy for my wife) and they’ve certainly sold a lot of them. of course they’re not sharing return rates but the shop guys had nothing negative to say, and i know them pretty well. a search on reddit for “vado IGH” shows a handful of posts, including one which required a wiring harness replacement and one that said enviolo wanted to replace the IGH. also lots of “i love this bike” so it’s pretty inconclusive. no good data, really.

seems like specialized potentially has a problem with some of these particular bikes, and some LBS are lacking the knowledge or experience to easily fix them. fixing either of those two issues would probably result in a satisfactory solution.

in my relatively short but fairly intense cycling experience, IGH or their shifting mechanisms have been responsible for approx 90% of all problems so i’m not too surprised, unfortunately.

 

[rayray]

The fact that you think a guy putting pedals on wrong as an honest mistake irrevocably means "The entire LBS is incompetent" says everything that needs to be said. Stop judging people without any context. You don't know. You would feel like crap if that guy came to work having just been served divorce papers and was a bit distracted. Just stop judging people when you are clueless about any context around them.



They don't sell the IGH models. They sell other electric models and support them. So lets analyze why: I have had 1 IGH non-delivery due to a D2C black hole (for which myself, the LBS and Specialized all play a part) and 3 IGH models delivered with varying problems. All 5.0 IGH como or vado. I have *zero* experience with any other model. So, is the conclusion that Specialized has built a garbage IGH lineup? Again, you have gone straight to judging the LBS instead of considering the possibility that Specialized plays a role in these problems. Why?

The answer is your own bias. You are finding any excuse to blame the LBS to protect your precious belief that specialized can do no wrong.

What's the simplest answer? 1) We know the crank arms were installed wrong. We know they come pre-installed (if you would like to dispute this, call your dealer and ask them on *IGH* models). 2) We know the IGH features were not working or present on the first ride. 3) We know that my current vado and previous vado had those same things working (though still has the low gear display question).

Occam's Razor: Simplest explanation here is the como came out of the box with build issues from the manufacturer. And the dealer failed to catch them before delivering the bike. Assuming the dealer didn't *actively cause* them as evidenced by not breaking two other deliveries in this way. Occam's Razor: specialized built and delivered a broken bike. LBS didn't catch the one issue they could have corrected. Case closed.



Of IGH models? Honestly, not that I have seen. In nearly every reddit/forum post I have followed, 3-6 months later OP: "Bike is in the shop and they can't solve it". Seriously. Reddit is scary. While I agree that the LBS will ultimately be *the* line of defense for these issues, the pattern of this across multiple LBS is distinctly another sign of Specialized not sufficiently skilling up (through required or ease of access training, read: virtual) their network. Again, this is a comment limited purely to *IGH* models. Not Specialized support of other models. I think specialized is used to the LBS leading the effort, and frankly, having the knowledge on site, but belt/IGH has thrown all of that out of whack.



Disagree (I should say potentially disagree). We don't know that Specialized even has trainings around this. And none of that matters if Specialized delivered a broken bike (this is an *IF* for the sake of this comment). There should be someone on this planet that would hear the words "Mastermind doesn't realize it is attached to an IGH bike" and immediately knows the answer. But that person isn't in my LBS (nor is it "reasonable" to expect them to be there, as outlined above). And, they quite possibly aren't accessible to the LBS through specialized support channels (as evidenced by my previous bout with IGH problems). And, Specialized, being the owner of the information necessary to answer that question is also the one responsible for distributing the answer. Now, if it turns out the answer to this is in dealer accessible documentation, then I will start blaming the LBS more actively. Hence the potentially disagree.

If the wiring harness actually fixes it: Specialized delivered a broken bike (there is no "normal" scenario where a simple bike build by the LBS should be effecting the wiring harness). If the wiring harness doesn't fix it: Specialized doesn't have the internal support network to support this model. I don't see how those two statements land in "It's primarily the LBS fault" territory. Nor do I find either of those statements "extreme". Particularly in light of the fact that no one seems to know how IGH models actually work, agree on the correct belt tension, or have any understanding of how the automatic communicates with the mastermind unit.

Again, blaming the LBS with only the information we have is jumping the gun on these specific models. Occam's razor: the simplest answer here is that the crucial piece of knowledge to get things connected is missing. Is there a pairing process that re-connects mastermind to enviolo and Specialized hasn't suggested it? We don't know. The LBS doesn't know. The only one who can possibly be reasonably expected to know does not have a good track record at fixing these things currently.

I’ll give you credit for not giving up easily on IGH, but I’m not at all surprised that anyone might be dissatisfied with the entire concept. An automatic is just fine in a car, but makes no sense (to me) on a bike. I mean, who knows better than me exactly how hard I want to work at any given moment?

Also, a word of advice; If you’re going to complain on a public forum, stop being so defensive. That last post pretty much lost me early on, though I’ll admit I did skim through it….because I find your saga to be entertaining.

Oh, and Reddit ALWAYS makes things sound awful. Using it to support your argument lends no credence.

I do hope you are able to find what you’re looking for. Best wishes.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The answer is your own bias. You are finding any excuse to blame the LBS to protect your precious belief that specialized can do no wrong.

I bought my Vado from an incompetent LBS. They cheated on me claiming I was buying a 2019 Speed Vado 5.0 in 2019 (it was a 2017 model). I should understand the "quality" of that LBS when the tech forgot to inflate the tyres before my first ride. They did not know the Speed Vado could not work without the operable display. After that store upgraded the electronics from BLOKS to TCD-w(speed) I also asked for replacing the cassette and chain. The LBS installed a wrong cassette (it was 42T granny gear instead of 46T as per spec). I lost my trust in them and moved to the newly opened Specialized Brand Store.

Had I known about the existence of the new LBS, I would probably be riding a Levo now instead of buying the Giant Trance E+ because the first LBS had no Levos for sale.
The Specialized Brand Store in Warsaw are highly competent. That's why now I own two Specialized e-bikes and the store has my full trust. I could demo ride a Vado SL (later bought one), a Tero, and a Creo. I doubt your LBS can do the same. They simply do not deserve to be a Specialized e-bike dealer. You are vocal about how bad Specialized is while the bad image originates in your LBS.

Try a Trek for a change. Guru tried it, and you should find his old posts about it. What about a "class action" against Trek because a shifter on a Trek was to stiff for Guru's fingers?
Not happy with Specialized? Don't buy Specialized but do not spread misinformation. Like that poor chap Nelo with his "DON"T BUY R&M!"

Occam's Razor: Simplest explanation here is

Occam Razor: Your LBS are as incompetent as they cannot deliver a single e-bike that works.

 

[dynamic]

An automatic is just fine in a car, but makes no sense (to me) on a bike.

Have you ridden one extensively? I am continuing to try because the experience is night and day better than a chain (which is why I stopped biking), a rohloff (which I currently own), a manual enviolo (which I have owned) or any other bike I have owned or tested. I get why people don't like it. I get why people don't like automatic cars also. Manual can be fun in an entirely different way. To put simply, if your purpose is to ride the bike: manual can have appeal. In the same way that if the fun part of driving a subaru wrx is the drive, then the manual is essential to the experience. But if the point is where you are going, the automatic is far more appealing.

stop being so defensive

The point of the posts is to not let the internet trolls who think they know better with zero information override the actual information. @Stefan Mikes has a ton of experience and knowledge, but he jumps to conclusions without the real information. I will be defensive against that anywhere.

Oh, and Reddit ALWAYS makes things sound awful. Using it to support your argument lends no credence.

Truth. But there are limited sources of people posting their experiences about this model. Reddit, is unfortunately, one of them.

no good data, really.

This sums up all the problems. There is no good data for us as consumers to make real decisions about any of this.

They simply do not deserve to be a Specialized e-bike dealer. You are vocal about how bad Specialized is while the bad image originates in your LBS.

This statement has no bearing in reality with the current information you have available. You are the one attempting to spread misinformation. You and I *don't know* the reason the bike is failing, or the solution. Until that is known, you can't actually realistically blame the LBS. The fact that you then compare to a specialized owned *flagship* store and use that as evidence? really? It only makes an ass out of you. Just stop.

deliver a single e-bike that works.

More misinformation. Expected I guess.