Happy wife, Happy Life!

[dynamic]

Fun update on a bunch of stuff.

Took the vado for the first real ride yesterday. It's my standard 10ish mile loop. I forgot how obnoxious the garmin 1040 is on a specialized bike (spoiler: it's still obnoxious). Also, apparently there is currently a syncing bug so getting your rides to sync at all is an exercise in frustration (the only reliable solution currently is to plug it in to a laptop. Don't use bluetooth or wifi syncing, it's broken, I am resetting it all and hoping that fixes it). But, that ride on the vado was the most satisfying ride I have had since.... my last ride on the previous vado. I definitely got fitter as I stayed in ECO (factory default) for all of it until the hill home (never did that previously). That I took in turbo as I was in a bit of a rush at that point (there was a break at the coffee shop before I went home). There is a part of this route that uses the rail trail (that garmin knows nothing about), and I was just flying through it. I know I wasn't going as fast as I can on the blade, in theory, but it felt so controlled. Part of that is I was never shifting and simply focused on the effort needed to ride. I can't say enough how much of a difference automatic shifting adds to the experience. Breaking hard for a hairpin downhill turn that immediately becomes a climb as you come out of it without having to think about gearing and just control the bike is simply next level. This bike *is* showing a problem my previous vado had: the gear range thing never shows the bike dropping into the lowest gear. The shop corrected this with additional calibration last time (I think). I haven't brought it in as my wife's bike takes priority.

This was also my first outdoor ride with these: https://www.amazon.com/CyclingDeal-Unisex-Bike-Sandals-Compatible/dp/B089PYXQKK?th=1&psc=1 cycling sandals. They are surprisingly good. I had tried the shimano version but their fit was terrible and somehow pinched me everywhere. These sandals stayed comfortable the entire time even if a bit tight. And the cleat is less noticeable than even my pearl izumi x-alp summit. One down side is they are slightly more finicky on clip-in. I assume the cleat is somewhat more recessed to make the better walking experience and slightly more annoying clip-in experience. Really good though. I love riding in weather that allows for sandals. And I definitely love having sandals that let me clip in.

The ed500 appear to be every bit as magical as the eh500 pedals. They just work. The eh500 are now on my wife's bike. The one ride she got down the block, before the bike went in for service showed her she wants clips. Just for reference, I also have the me700 on my peloton. And they definitely don't have the magic, but it's also a fixed indoor bike so it doesn't matter that unclipping isn't psychic.

That brings us to my wife's bike. The pedals/crank arms are now "fixed", but the mastermind still has no clue it is an enviolo bike. For example: it doesn't have the enviolo calibration option that my bike does. Pedal pace control doesn't exist. So, still in the shop. Specialized is on thin ice and in danger of a two bike return. Not sure where I'll go from here. My guess is not electric so I can take the family to the flatter parts of the bike trail and have bikes that work just for that.

Happy Riding!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I stayed in ECO (factory default)

Could you please check what the default Assist/Max Motor Power % are for each mode on your Vado?

 

[dynamic]

Could you please check what the default Assist/Max Motor Power % are for each mode on your Vado?

This is what it shows. It should be noted, my only other preset has 20% in eco instead of 35%. So if it was on that, it is even better.

I haven’t adjusted anything on this bike yet in terms of power/tuning.

 

[dynamic]

Yet another nearly 14 mile ride in. It was 45 when I left so I went fully covered (no sandals! ). Good choice. It was a fantastic ride. One down side: the roads are way worse than they were last year. Those pot holes were out to get me. First dirt road ride on the new vado. I have ridden all of these roads many times last year. Everything is starting to bloom and the tree canopies are back in full force. And there are incredible mountain views. There is a local farm on this route that has a store and sells maple syrup, cider and pasture raised beef. Gonna have to stop at it one of these days.

Also, no turbo usage, only sport. And I definitely could have managed my sport usage better if I managed my energy output better. Some of that usage was out of impatience to get up a long climb rather than energy output needs. Apparently peloton and lifting really helps with cycling performance. I still can't figure out what it is about the vado that makes me *want* to keep it in a lower power setting. The FLX is not like that most of the time.

Heading down to the bike shop to learn some more about my wife's bike. A warranty claim was submitted.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

This is what it shows. It should be noted, my only other preset has 20% in eco instead of 35%. So if it was on that, it is even better.

I haven’t adjusted anything on this bike yet in terms of power/tuning.

Thank you! I have found the 35/35% ECO setting appropriate for my long road voyages. I've modified the SPORT setting to 55/55% as sufficient for very fast forest rides with my cycling club, and the pedals still feel they need to be pushed hard to be on par with my buddies (more assistance and I either ride dangerously fast or am ghost-pedalling). 100/100% TURBO is for hard mountain climbs and for emergency.

 

[dynamic]

Thank you! I have found the 35/35% ECO setting appropriate for my long road voyages. I've modified the SPORT setting to 55/55% as sufficient for very fast forest rides with my cycling club, and the pedals still feel they need to be pushed hard to be on par with my buddies (more assistance and I either ride dangerously fast or am ghost-pedalling). 100/100% TURBO is for hard mountain climbs and for emergency.

Honestly, the default sport at 75% is a bit much a lot of the time. On my old bike I sometimes used: 20/20-50/50-100/100. But now, I think eco would be low enough that I would spend too much time in sport for "normal" riding. And sport at that setting would definitely have put me in turbo at the crazy grades today (12-14% at times). I might go back to micro-tune. There were definitely times today where I *would* have used something between 35/35 and 75/75.

I might start experimenting with varying support and peak power separately. I rarely want the motor to be "doing the work". But, if I am really pushing in the effort, I don't mind the assist rising. So, I am thinking something like 30/75 for eco. Maybe 60/75 for sport and leave turbo bonkers at 100/100. Gonna experiment.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Try 20/100 or even 15/100. It is rewarding your leg effort magically. Because if you pedal lightly, you would be riding slowly. Yet put some effort and you will get the thing flying! Personally, I use 30/100 for my Vado SL on my daily rides (it is 15/50 for the big Vado). Whenever I want to climb an overpass, I just downshift and spin the pedals. It works! 30/100 on my Vado SL gives a similar experience as 50/50 but the motor is far more flexible and rewarding the effort.

 

[mschwett]

Try 20/100 or even 15/100. It is rewarding your leg effort magically. Because if you pedal lightly, you would be riding slowly. Yet put some effort and you will get the thing flying! Personally, I use 30/100 for my Vado SL on my daily rides (it is 15/50 for the big Vado). Whenever I want to climb an overpass, I just downshift and spin the pedals. It works! 30/100 on my Vado SL gives a similar experience as 50/50 but the motor is far more flexible and rewarding the effort.

i don’t like putting the limit so high, because if you pedal harder and harder, your battery life just keeps going down! of course speed goes up, but i’d rather control the total battery usage with the limit. when you’re pedaling so hard you need less help

for a bigger rider on a 4x vado a 30/100 eco setting and 200w of rider input, battery usage would be roughly the same as a 50/50 setting!

 

[dynamic]

So, they are replacing the wiring harness…. *sigh*

 

[Stefan Mikes]

for a bigger rider on a 4x vado a 30/100 eco setting and 200w of rider input, battery usage would be roughly the same as a 50/50 setting!

Exactly!
Now you may understand why I prefer the 30/100 Vado SL setting to 50/50. Of course, the rider of full power Vado could try something like 15/50.

 

[dynamic]

Honestly, my wife is leaning toward a return and if she does, I am as well. My wife wants to buy a roll low entry and ditch the long ride and just use it as a family rail trail bike.

I am considering the vado SL again. If I am not going to ride with my wife, a fun, fast chain bike could be great.

 

[dynamic]

I really did not feel like riding today given the bike drama. But I made myself do my standard loop. This loop is getting a bit too easy except for the climb home. I just went into turbo for that part, but this time just casually pedaled home instead of high tailing it. On the way back I stopped and visited my son at his after school program. The battery went from 85->77% from that one climb in turbo, not pushing my own power. Typically I have to reserve 10% for a turbo ride home of that route.

My wife is pretty adamant about returning the bike. I really want her to ride the thing once. Not because I want her to keep it, but because I want her to want a bike that enables these rides. So, I am hoping it is "fixed" tomorrow so we can go for a ride on friday and do a weekend family rail trail ride. We were trying to go to the rail trail as a family for the first time when I discovered the pedal issue(s).

I asked specialized about a flat out bike swap. Apparently they don't do that either. I am honestly pretty shocked how inflexible specialized retail is. I have never run into that level of inflexibility at a company that wants to sell me something. I really don't get that. This probably means no vado SL for me.

If the bike isn't fixed for friday, we are likely pulling the trigger on a priority turi for her and a priority continuum onyx/600/600x for me. Not sure which yet. I have mixed feelings about all 3 of them. But I am leaning 600 given I still have the blade 2.0 for an electric mountain bike and the 600 may be good enough to tackle some of these hills without assistance. I have never ridden something with such a low gear range. I think the surly ghost grappler was close, but I disliked that for a number of reasons and was not in nearly as good bike shape then.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Try 20/100 or even 15/100. It is rewarding your leg effort magically. Because if you pedal lightly, you would be riding slowly. Yet put some effort and you will get the thing flying! Personally, I use 30/100 for my Vado SL on my daily rides (it is 15/50 for the big Vado). Whenever I want to climb an overpass, I just downshift and spin the pedals. It works! 30/100 on my Vado SL gives a similar experience as 50/50 but the motor is far more flexible and rewarding the effort.

Just curious, what do these X/Y numbers mean, and how do they relate to the Eco and Turbo assist settings?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Just curious, what do these X/Y numbers mean, and how do they relate to the Eco and Turbo assist settings?

Specialized e-bikes allow setting any percent of assist (regardless of the Assist Mode name, which is just a preset) using the Mission Control app, or MicroTune (which is a button on the remote allowing manipulating the Assist in small steps during the ride).

The first number is the Assist %, and the other is Max Motor Power %:

• My full-power Vado has the Boost (or Leg Power Amplification) Factor of 3.2. If I set the Assist to, say, 35%, each Watt of my leg power shall be amplified with the mechanical motor power of 3.2 * 0.35 = 1.12 W. So whenever I input 100 W mechanical into the cranks, the motor shall assist me with 112 W (mechanical, not electrical!)
• The other parameter is applying a cap on the Peak Motor Power. The motor of my Vado 6.0 has the Peak Power of 520 W (mechanical). If I apply 35% Max Motor Power, the motor will never deliver more than 0.35 * 520 = 182 W. If a strong rider is pedalling so strongly the assistance should deliver more than 182 W, no more than 182 W would be provided.

For instance, the rider inputs 200 W at 35/35% assistance. The Assist the rider is asking for is 224 W but the Max Motor Power keeps the assistance capped at 182 W. The Max Motor Power % setting is essential for ensuring long distance battery range. However, a strong rider can make the Assist very low but not be limiting the Max Motor Power. This way, the motor will deliver flexible assistance, only depending on the rider's leg input. (The Assist/Max Motor Power is a feature unique to Specialized e-bikes).

In case of the dynamic's Vado 5.0, the Boost Factor is 4x and the Peak Motor Power is 565 W mechanical.
In case of all Specialized SL e-bikes, the Boost Factor is 1.8x and the Peak Motor Power is 240 W mechanical.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

I will never live long enough to understand this. You shouldn’t have to be a freaking physicist to ride an ebike up a hill. The only thing that truly annoys the hell out of me about my Creo.

 

[dynamic]

I will never live long enough to understand this. You shouldn’t have to be a freaking physicist to ride an ebike up a hill. The only thing that truly annoys the hell out of me about my Creo.

Ironically, specialized is *easily* the most accessible version of this. Technically, the "equivalent" of what has been said above can be programmed on my flx blade 2.0 on the bafang m620 via the eggrider. But actually doing it is crazy different. On bafang, you can technically program each of the 9 power levels entirely differently. And, when done right, the pedaling experience on the bafang is pretty similar to the specialized at equal power levels. (The bafang is many times more power, once you enter that range it feels quite different simply because it feels like there is a rocketship under your feet).

Anyway, the defaults on the specialized bikes are great. The defaults on the bafang are.... not great. ;P

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Specialized e-bikes allow setting any percent of assist (regardless of the Assist Mode name, which is just a preset) using the Mission Control app, or MicroTune (which is a button on the remote allowing manipulating the Assist in small steps during the ride).

The first number is the Assist %, and the other is Max Motor Power %:

• My full-power Vado has the Boost (or Leg Power Amplification) Factor of 3.2. If I set the Assist to, say, 35%, each Watt of my leg power shall be amplified with the mechanical motor power of 3.2 * 0.35 = 1.12 W. So whenever I input 100 W mechanical into the cranks, the motor shall assist me with 112 W (mechanical, not electrical!)
• The other parameter is applying a cap on the Peak Motor Power. The motor of my Vado 6.0 has the Peak Power of 520 W (mechanical). If I apply 35% Max Motor Power, the motor will never deliver more than 0.35 * 520 = 182 W. If a strong rider is pedalling so strongly the assistance should deliver more than 182 W, no more than 182 W would be provided.

For instance, the rider inputs 200 W at 35/35% assistance. The Assist the rider is asking for is 224 W but the Max Motor Power keeps the assistance capped at 182 W. The Max Motor Power % setting is essential for ensuring long distance battery range. However, a strong rider can make the Assist very low but not be limiting the Max Motor Power. This way, the motor will deliver flexible assistance, only depending on the rider's leg input. (The Assist/Max Motor Power is a feature unique to Specialized e-bikes).

In case of the dynamic's Vado 5.0, the Boost Factor is 4x and the Peak Motor Power is 565 W mechanical.
In case of all Specialized SL e-bikes, the Boost Factor is 1.8x and the Peak Motor Power is 240 W mechanical.

Thanks! Very clear explanation. The tunable power delivery system you describe makes a lot of sense.

The power delivery with my torque-sensing hub-drive ebike feels quite natural, but it's a total black box. The only adjustment is the number of assist levels. With the max of 9, I find that there's always an assist level suited to my needs. And with experience, it's not hard to find.

Luckily, my assist levels are nicely spaced for my kind of riding. If they weren't, I'd be out of luck. That's where the trade-off between simplicity and tunability comes in.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Luckily, my assist levels are nicely spaced for my kind of riding. If they weren't, I'd be out of luck. That's where the trade-off between simplicity and tunability comes in.

As Dynamic said, your motor is probably tuneable.
It was worse for my first hub-drive e-bike which was not tuneable, and basically all the battery information I was getting on the display were 4 bars. As I was ready for long rides within a few months after that e-bike purchase, the lack of detailed information on the battery status and impossibility to tune the motor were rather frustrating.

That's why I jumped onto the Specialized, especially to hear there was the Smart Control of the Mission Control, tuneability etc etc. Only to find the discounted 45 km/h Vado 5.0 I bought was equipped with the obsolete electronics and it did not work with Mission Control! Well, I'm a person different to Dynamic: less demanding, patient, and optimistic Suffice to say the same e-bike I bought in 2019 is now a 45 km/h Vado 6.0 with the current electronics for that model... Handled by two Specialized warranty cases (The quality of Specialized electronics also made me buy a Vado SL later).

 

[dynamic]

person different to Dynamic: less demanding, patient, and optimistic

Hey!… wait, no, this checks out.

I would settle for a bike that works on delivery at this point. My expectations have been reduced.

 

[None]

My wife & I have been cycling together since we met back in 2003.
Regular bicycles at first, then recumbents, then road bikes, nowadays ebike & etrike.
Wife is 4' 11", not particularly easy to find bikes that can fit her and make her feel secure enough to operate with confidence.
For ebikes, wife started with something small & easy to handle, 16" wheels, 6-speed, 350w motor, 15 mph top speed, 35 lb. micro ebike.

Wife wanted something even smaller, so we try a 12" wheel, shaft-drive ebike/escoter, no gears, pedal/cranks just act as a crank generator to charge the large (25Ah) battery.

Once she got a few hundred miles on it, she felt good enough to try something bigger, Lectric 2.0 StepThru;
but somehow didn't like the way it rides.

I bought a Fiido T1 for myself back in 2021, I ride it few times a week carrying large volume of items between places.
Wife sees how much I abuse the Fiido T1 and thinks she wants to try it; sure enough the original T1 was recalled for frame failure/weakspot.
Fiido did good on the recall and sent out a replacement T1 with frame improvements.
I modified the improved T1 for the wife to try out, shorter crankarms, sweepback handlebar, short stubby stem, and off she goes with it.

Next to the 12" wheel e-scooter, which uses the same battery as the Fiido T1,
She likes the extra stability of the fat tires on the Fiido T1, I try not to give her too much to think about, just let her try things on her own, let her decide what she wants to ride:

Back in FEB this year, I ordered the Lectrik XP Trike for my in-laws.
FIL in his mid 80's used to ride his fat tire ebike to his fav fishing spot (2 mile from their house in Queen, NY) prior to the pandemic.
Both in-laws have diminished their outdoor activities since their neighborhood was one of the hardest hit by COVID, the new TV footage that showed hospital with semi-trailer full of dead bodies, that was the hospital that my wife was born in.
The in-laws used to enjoy outdoor activities, now they have very low stamina, poor balance, poor flexibility and generally weak physically.
Their neighborhood have plenty of room on the streets, besides, their operation of the trike will likely be very limited and heavily supervised.
The XP Trike is just an activity to get them out of the house, I don't think they will use it more than a handful of times in a year.
Wife hopped onto the trike last weekend for a few miles, she wanted to continue riding the trike because she enjoyed it so much, I was a little tired after a full day of yard work. Here's a picture of size comparison of her micro ebike vs her Fiido T1.