Giving up my car

[Like2bike]

I am mentally and emotionally torn, and I come to you for help assistance and informed guidance. I only have one shot at this, and my choice is between a charger 4 vario 750w smart system or a supercharger2 vario hs 1250 watt I do know that at some point in time I would like to go over 20 mph, but I also know that the smart system has more integration and moving forward Bosch would be more likely to phase out the older systems that aren’t smart, so I plan on keeping his bike for at least five years someone please help

 

[fooferdoggie]

I am not worried about my bikes homecoming obsolete before they are history. the speed may or may not be important to you. me it is. the range that one can be harder. you really need to look at how much you think your going to ride and how far. I ride far more than I planned when I first got my e bikes. I rend to do a 17 mile commute then hop on the tandem and do 12 miles every day and more on the weekend if we have the energy. last year we were doing 230 miles r more a week .we dat own a car and ride everywhere our e tandem is our SUV.

 

[DaveMatthews]

I know nothing about those two choices.
That said, relax and research more.
What are your riding styles, and what is your location and destinations?
Is it hilly? Flat? Short? Long distance?
Need to know more...

 

[fooferdoggie]

either bike will climb the same as long as the greasing is close to the same. but the rest is the issue.

 

[Like2bike]

either bike will climb the same as long as the greasing is close to the same. but the rest is the issue.

Thank you that’s been my main concern. I live in Los Angeles and I plan on going on across the city so I wanna make sure that I can handle any heels anywhere as well as knowing that I’ll be able to get back home. I know Boston will be releasing the 250 W booster packs for the smart battery. I just want to make sure I make the right choice

 

[OldTrouserFace]

I’ve recently bought a Supercharger 2 Rolhoff. It was an ex-demo so it was about the same price as a new Vario. I am very happy with it and it will go pretty much anywhere and cope with any hills. The reason I wanted the Rolhoff was that the gearing is wider so steep hills are easy up and you the top gear means on-road descents are fun.

In the UK the motor cuts at 15.5mph and I plan to put in a Speedbox to rectify that.

The dual battery means that I am very likely to never run out of charge on trips I would take. I did a 220 mile trip over multiple days and set myself the challenge of not needing to charge it (I was with a couple of friends who had normal bikes). It was tough going at times as riding without the motor uphill is hard and I did use the motor for a number of them! At the end I had 30% battery left…

I’ve only done about 350 miles so far over the month, but if you asked me “would I buy it again?”, it is a definite yes. (Although I can’t compare it to a charger 4 which might be brilliant too).

Hope you find the right thing for you!

 

[peterh_nz]

The reason I wanted the Rolhoff was that the gearing is wider so steep hills are easy up and you the top gear means on-road descents are fun.

In the UK the motor cuts at 15.5mph and I plan to put in a Speedbox to rectify that.

The dual battery means that I am very likely to never run out of charge on trips I would take. I did a 220 mile trip over multiple days and set myself the challenge of not needing to charge it (I was with a couple of friends who had normal bikes).

Yes, the wide gear range of the Rohloff was one of the reasons I chose that system.

That's an inspiring challenge! Riding without assistance on the flat is no big deal. I've done it a few times when riding with friends who have traditional bikes.

 

[AvalancheRun]

If the choice is between class 3 and 1, we wouldn't choose class 1 again. It’s too limiting for our use.

We have Smart System bikes, but not really sure how any of them would become obsolete enough to have a meaningful impact on ownership?

 

[AvalancheRun]

Yes, the wide gear range of the Rohloff was one of the reasons I chose that system.

With our Enviolo 380% we could use some lower gearing. At some steep hills the lowest gear puts us at only 60 rpm cadence. Between Enviolo Manual shifter and Rohloff, Rohloff all the way. The Enviolo Automatiq is really nice though.

 

[fooferdoggie]

With our Enviolo 380% we could use some lower gearing. At some steep hills the lowest gear puts us at only 60 rpm cadence. Between Enviolo Manual shifter and Rohloff, Rohloff all the way. The Enviolo Automatiq is really nice though.

at 60 rpms you dont get all of the torque the motor can put out. you would have to put out at least 450 watts to hit the limit at 60. I had assistats at about 550 on a 20% grade hill keeping the cadence at 80.

 

[sammcneill]

I have a Supercharger 2 HS Vario and my wife has a Multicharger Mixte Vario 'smart' system.

My thoughts:

• If this is a car replacement you should absolutely get the HS - you'll want/need it.
• BUT - the Vario is undergeared for 45kph - you simply can't maintain a cadence high enough to hit 45kph - to be honest, even maintaining 40kph is challenging because the gearing is too low.' The Rohloff is expensive but would totally unlock the high speed and the ultra low gears for very steep hills. Buy once, cry once, be grateful you bought the best
• Hills - steepest I've gone up is 15% and it was fine -they're heavy bikes but turbo mode will eat that up in lowest gear.
• Ensure you have carrying capacity - the bikes are great for this - my SC2 only has the older 'smaller' rack at the front compared to the larger rack on my wife's new Mixte. If you're replacing a car you'll want to carry stuff and the bikes enable this - just get good rack and bags. It's super achievable and great fun.
• The "smart" system on my wife's Mixte is not that smart (IMHO) - the security disable motor feature is so poorly implemented we've had to turn it off and in terms of OTA updates we've not seen that as a big draw card. I get it, Bosch are making a big deal about features coming to the 'smart' system, but at the core, I'd be focusing on what is hear and now and what is the primary function of a bike - getting you from A to B safely, fast, and efficiently with all the gear you want to take with you.

I've just ticked over 10,500km on my SC2 and it's going strong and I rarely ever drive my car by myself, only when I'm taking my family somewhere.

Cheers
Sam

 

[AvalancheRun]

at 60 rpms you dont get all of the torque the motor can put out. you would have to put out at least 450 watts to hit the limit at 60. I had assistats at about 550 on a 20% grade hill keeping the cadence at 80.

I’m going with a derailleur or Rohloff next time. There’s just not enough low gearing when we hit hills without a solid run up. I want a higher cadence.

 

[peterh_nz]

If you're replacing a car you'll want to carry stuff and the bikes enable this - just get good rack and bags. It's super achievable and great fun.

Yes the front and back racks on the SC2, plus panniers, are great. Add to that a trailer and can carry/move quite a lot of stuff.

I've just ticked over 10,500km on my SC2 and it's going strong and I rarely ever drive my car by myself, only when I'm taking my family somewhere.

Similar to my experience with the SC2 (13,000km) and, with the above luggage carrying combination, my car is only used for multiple people or the relatively rare need to transport large loads. Use of my ICE car is now so low I'd be hard pressed to justify purchasing an EV.

Peter

 

[CyclingDan]

I wrote on another thread my thoughts on Gen 3 (smart) vs Gen 2 - I have both. I vastly prefer Gen 2. Only thing going for Gen 3 is that the motors have a better noise profile so sound quieter, but the software and features stink compared to Gen 2. Maybe someday Gen 3 will equal or beat Gen 2 (but it’s already been years …) but presently it’s glitchy and feature poor.

The problem is they decided to put all the smarts in the phone (requiring you to have a functioning phone, so they can drain the battery), with the problem that the phone app isn’t any better than the Gen 2 app.

 

[peterh_nz]

The problem is they decided to put all the smarts in the phone (requiring you to have a functioning phone, so they can drain the battery),

So you need to have a mobile phone running while you ride?

 

[fooferdoggie]

I wrote on another thread my thoughts on Gen 3 (smart) vs Gen 2 - I have both. I vastly prefer Gen 2. Only thing going for Gen 3 is that the motors have a better noise profile so sound quieter, but the software and features stink compared to Gen 2. Maybe someday Gen 3 will equal or beat Gen 2 (but it’s already been years …) but presently it’s glitchy and feature poor.

The problem is they decided to put all the smarts in the phone (requiring you to have a functioning phone, so they can drain the battery), with the problem that the phone app isn’t any better than the Gen 2 app.

it takes awhile awhile for bosch to really get going. the Nyon had some big issues when it came out and the software too.

 

[CyclingDan]

So you need to have a mobile phone running while you ride?

If you want to record stats and ride. Even the Kiox dumbs out if there’s no phone, it won’t display miles, elevation etc without a phone.

 

[fooferdoggie]

If you want to record stats and ride. Even the Kiox dumbs out if there’s no phone, it won’t display miles, elevation etc without a phone.

I think thats always been the case. you will need the Nyon as a stand alone solution.

 

[peterh_nz]

I think thats always been the case. you will need the Nyon as a stand alone solution.

Precisely

 

[sammcneill]

I'd never rely on the Bosch display for this stuff - mapping, health data (heart rate etc) I'd use my Garmin Edge for. The only issue is Bosch won't share Power data to third party apps whcih sucks - my Brose on Specialised eMTB shares all this to my Garmin Fenix.
Rather than invent half baked products that don't work, they should just allow their data to be shared via BLE/ANT+