Getting my first road ebike - Specialized vs Canyon

[mschwett]

lol @Stefan Mikes i don’t think anyone is talking about riding off road in the center of london (nor is it relevant), or manhattan, or hong kong. the UK is a big place.

all road bikes (or whatever you want to call them) are actually great commuters, our bike room has several really nice ones that see serious usage in the hills here, in between my s-works aethos and a brand new s-works tarmac SL8 and all the old vintage steel road bikes. they’re hung in the racks labeled “gravel bikes only per EMTB police” section

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My point is gravel bikes can be seen anywhere in Warsaw while they are undetectable in London. Just because the English prefer road racing bikes.
P.S. The main difference between London and Warsaw is we have several forests neighbouring the city.

all road bikes (or whatever you want to call them) are actually great commuters

That's true. That's why the English do not need gravel bikes. A typical sight is a man (often semi-formally dressed) pedalling a road bike with a rucksack.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

This is about a mile from my house. You'll see plenty of sheep. Plenty of wild Dartmoor ponies, the occasional farmer on a quadbike, some walkers and i guess if you waited a day or two you might see a mountain biker or a gravel bike or you might not.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

This is about a mile from my house. You'll see plenty of sheep. Plenty of wild Dartmoor ponies, the occasional farmer on a quadbike, some walkers and i guess if you waited a day or two you might see a mountain biker or a gravel bike or you might not.


View attachment 178868

Show me the roads, please.

 

[mschwett]

wow, there really aren’t very many dirt/gravel segments around london!

many have thousands of attempts.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Guys,

Let us start over. Creo 2 is a 100% gravel e-bike and has never been designed as a "road racing e-bike". Creo 1 makes a lot of sense in the U.S. (the 28 mph limiter). Creo 2 is a gravel e-bike.

You could see such a scene in the U.S. but certainly not in England. Not a race. Just friendly riding together.

Yes, we badly miss gravel roads in Mazovia. MTBer usually ride the top of the Vistula embankment but we gravel cyclist elect the path below.

All such places are in a riding distance from Warsaw.

Yes, all such places are within a riding distance from Warsaw.

If we need true gravel roads, there are other provinces in Poland, too, and there is no border check, either.

So, Mark, Ras, who of you has participated in gravel group rides or even races and can tell me why you believe Creo 2 is a legit road racing e-bike?

P.S. Mark I am sure you rode a lot of gravel in England and can present your expertise... Not.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

My point is gravel bikes can be seen anywhere in Warsaw while they are undetectable in London. Just because the English prefer road racing bikes.
P.S. The main difference between London and Warsaw is we have several forests neighbouring wih the city.

Actually Britain has some of the lowest numbers of road cyclists in Europe, or at least Western Europe. It's got better in recent years thankfully and if you really want to see roadies then head North particularly in Yorkshire, in the Pennines. London is all tarmac, sounds like riding a road bike there is a sensible move.

But again what the f**k that has to do with anything here escapes me other then jingoistic childish patriotism.

Show me the roads, please.

Here's 2. The first about 6 miles away. That's Hound Tor in the background in the mist. Famous from Hound of The Baskevilles & Sherlock Holmes, set on Dartmoor. And the second is a typical crossroads on the moor. This is where I cycle 90% of the time. On road. Off road and anything in between. Happy?

 

[Rás Cnoic]

"road racing e-bike"

Nobody on this thread is saying it's for racing. Who really races e bikes? Emtb e Enduro yes, that's getting going, but its tiny. Race e road bikes? You think Spesh made the Creo 2 for people to race?

Maybe take a look at a real pedigree road 'racing' machine. The 2024 Spesh Roubaix now takes 40mm tyres. 40mm tyres? On a slick fast road bike? What's happening?! That's wider then my Vado SL came with.

Bikes have changed Stefan. They are multi use wonder machines. Call them what you like. Don't get hung up on labels.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Bikes have changed Stefan. They are multi use wonder machines. Call them what you like. Don't get hung up on labels.

Then I'm surprised Mark used to ride an Aethos and now rides a lightweight Scott e-bike (which -- according to him -- fulfills the criteria of a "road bike") but seems to have got rid of his Creo 1 (or, does not ride it).

The roads you have shown look macadam to me, and if that's gravel then I can only congratulate your builders.

 

[mschwett]

...

So, Mark, Ras, who of you has participated in gravel group rides or even races and can tell me why you believe Creo 2 is a legit road racing e-bike?

P.S. Mark I am sure you rode a lot of gravel in England and can present your expertise... Not.

stefan, you really need to stop.

yes, i've ridden in gravel group rides. on a creo. have you? i don't particularly enjoy it, and it's not a good health risk for me to be so far from the roads that ambulances use, so i don't do it any more. i've also ridden a creo thousands of miles. have you? i've also ridden the new creo. have you? do you own a drop bar bike? your habit of turning a discussion personal when someone doesn't immediately agree to your (often questionable) tangents is unpleasant to say the least.

i have not ridden on dirt/gravel in the UK. ras OBVIOUSLY has, and yet you still see fit to argue with him about the nature of the riding opportunities in the UK. as for my personal experience, we have a large office in london, i've spent lots of time there, many of my colleagues are avid cyclists from the UK, and we talk lots about cycling. they've ridden gravel and road with me here. add that to what ras is saying and the presence of organized races and yes, i'm pretty sure people ride gravel in the UK. i could not possibly care less about whether more or less people per capita ride gravel in poland, the UK, or northern california.

as to your question, the notion of "racing" an e-bike is ridiculous outside of a very few very specific very contrived events. the creo 2 is a gravel bike, which means that it can be ridden quite well on roads. it's not as optimized for long fast rides on pavement as say, a tarmac or aethos, but it's perfectly capable. it the OP is happy with a 1x drivetrain, 30mm tires, and the geometry, it's a fine choice. not the choice i'd make but that's not the point.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Yes, I will stop. Just to remind you Mark I took part in three gravel races, the longest of which being 163 mile. The longest on a Vado SL.

That is to explain why you necessarily need a gravel bike in England Widecombe to Ashbuton, Teinbridge, England

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

As if on cue, from today's NYT...

Narcissism Is a Trait That’s Hard to Shake, Study Says

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Then I'm surprised Mark used to ride an Aethos and now rides a lightweight Scott e-bike (which -- according to him -- fulfills the criteria of a "road bike") but seems to have got rid of his Creo 1 (or, does not ride it).

The roads you have shown look macadam to me, and if that's gravel then I can only congratulate your builders.

still have no clue why you want to see my local roads tarmac or gravel. But here's a selection all from with 15 miles of my house and from the last 4 years - It's coming up to 4 years since I got my Vado SL and Dartmoor-ised it:

 

[Rás Cnoic]

And here Stefan is me Gravel riding when I was 16. Only we didn't call it that back then. Call it what you like.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

As if on cue, from today's NYT...

Narcissism Is a Trait That’s Hard to Shake, Study Says

Now that's cheeky!

 

[mschwett]

still have no clue why you want to see my local roads tarmac or gravel. But here's a selection all from with 15 miles of my house and from the last 4 years - It's coming up to 4 years since I got my Vado SL and Dartmoor-ised it:

...

other than the white stuff on the ground (!??!) it actually doesn't look that unlike the ranch and preserve lands just north of san francisco. a bit flatter to be sure and different trees but if someone told me those were marin or sonoma county, i might believe them! nice riding for sure.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Now that's cheeky!

On the advice of my inner narcissist, I'm taking that as a compliment.

Look over the practical management tips in the article's final section. May be of some use.

 

[jabberwocky]

all road bikes (or whatever you want to call them) are actually great commuters, our bike room has several really nice ones that see serious usage in the hills here, in between my s-works aethos and a brand new s-works tarmac SL8 and all the old vintage steel road bikes. they’re hung in the racks labeled “gravel bikes only per EMTB police” section

I commuted daily on my 15lb carbon road bike with 23mm road tires for several years. Not pure racing geometry but it was pretty horizontal (Ibis Silk Sl with 2010 era sram red 10 spd). Carried my stuff in a messenger bag. Worked great. Loved that bike. Preferred commuting on it to the Lemond cyclocross bike it replaced even though the Lemond was, on paper, more commute-y with its rack mounts and disc brakes.

Some of the "gravel vs road" argument is silly, and mainly just shows how much people internalize bike mfg marketing. The Creo 2 (and a lot of other general purpose gravel frames) have pretty similar geometry to lots of endurance road bikes from the pre-gravel years (with the only major difference being longer chainstays to accommodate bigger tires, since roadies running anything more than maybe 32s was very much not a thing back then). Its a good general purpose geometry, and would work fine for gravel or road. Not a good choice if you want really racey road bike geometry, obviously.

Incidentally, I tend to think these sorts of geometry arguments matter a lot more in the non-electric realm, where losing a few percent of efficiency can mean the difference between hanging with the group and getting dropped and never seeing the group again. With an electric motor enhancing things, you can get away with more relaxed geometry and not really cost yourself anything aside from using a bit more battery,

still have no clue why you want to see my local roads tarmac or gravel. But here's a selection all from with 15 miles of my house and from the last 4 years - It's coming up to 4 years since I got my Vado SL and Dartmoor-ised it:

Some lovely pics there dude. I think one of Stefans flaws is he has really rigid thinking about what gravel actually is, and where its appropriate to ride a "gravel" bike vs a "road" bike. But IME gravel is pretty flexible, and people ride their gravel bikes everywhere from just general pavement cruising to rough roads to actual gravel roads to dirt fire roads to singletrack. A lot of friends who got into gravel riding in the late 2000s (long before gravel bikes were a thing) were mountainbikers building up frankenstein drop bar bikes out of hardtail mtb frames or cyclocross bikes. They generally planned rides that combined pavement with dirt roads and singletrack.

 

[jabberwocky]

Also, not sure where Stef gets the idea that there isn't much gravel in England. Its, like, kinda famous for it!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

On the advice of my inner narcissist, I'm taking that as a compliment.

Look over the practical management tips in the article's final section. May be of some use.

Oh s*it - You're saying I'm the narcissist here?! Which of course in itself is classic narcissist in denial behaviour!

So I'm the Michael Douglas in Falling Down? Lovely.