tykoehn1
Active Member
I'm pretty sure the C50 axle will work on this hub. I am still verifying. It works for the rx-rk5 hub.
Might have to get a Rohloff eventually assuming they have a stronger axle.
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Generic MD 1000 and HD 750 ebike model discussion
- Thread starter RMK!
- Start date
Might have to get a Rohloff eventually assuming they have a stronger axle.
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Terry777
Guest
If stuff was set true and final tightening and finishing was done on these bikes these things should hold up to how we are all using them.
I know China won’t have no 50 stage quality control but you’d expect it to at least get to the end of your driveway before it falls apart. Like I said before too, there are no pro riders among us really putting these things through their paces or even anything close to it. My gran could probably break one of these things in.
I know we bought them from China too but you’d expect it to stand up to more than someone farting while you passed them on a path or whatever or even puffing on a smoke as you pass! I’m sure everyone here never bought it and expected it would only last till the end of the month, 2 or 3 at most! One guy is talking 60k, that sounds worse than a month for some reason!!
I’m seriously thinking of trying the cassette and chain set up. I know KMC make hefty chains. It would be going some to be worse than the IGH has proved to be after Leili have had anything to do with setting it up. However I go I’ll be getting a professional to fit it for me and set it up. They’ll be more familiar with setting these up than I am that’s for damn sure!!
There’s also a British guy on YouTube who does tear downs and service tutorials and things like that on the SA IGH, I’m going to pick his brain if he has the time and doesn’t mind sharing his knowledge. If I find anything useful out I’ll share it for sure.
I’m also tempted to see if I can strip mine out and rebuild it and try Whitz’s solution. Just for fun...
If my bike worked, I could just go out for a run since the weather is great for cycling right now.
I know China won’t have no 50 stage quality control but you’d expect it to at least get to the end of your driveway before it falls apart. Like I said before too, there are no pro riders among us really putting these things through their paces or even anything close to it. My gran could probably break one of these things in.
I know we bought them from China too but you’d expect it to stand up to more than someone farting while you passed them on a path or whatever or even puffing on a smoke as you pass! I’m sure everyone here never bought it and expected it would only last till the end of the month, 2 or 3 at most! One guy is talking 60k, that sounds worse than a month for some reason!!
I’m seriously thinking of trying the cassette and chain set up. I know KMC make hefty chains. It would be going some to be worse than the IGH has proved to be after Leili have had anything to do with setting it up. However I go I’ll be getting a professional to fit it for me and set it up. They’ll be more familiar with setting these up than I am that’s for damn sure!!
There’s also a British guy on YouTube who does tear downs and service tutorials and things like that on the SA IGH, I’m going to pick his brain if he has the time and doesn’t mind sharing his knowledge. If I find anything useful out I’ll share it for sure.
I’m also tempted to see if I can strip mine out and rebuild it and try Whitz’s solution. Just for fun...
If my bike worked, I could just go out for a run since the weather is great for cycling right now.
tykoehn1
Active Member
Keep us posted on what you do. It would make a good thread!If stuff was set true and final tightening and finishing was done on these bikes these things should hold up to how we are all using them.
I know China won’t have no 50 stage quality control but you’d expect it to at least get to the end of your driveway before it falls apart. Like I said before too, there are no pro riders among us really putting these things through their paces or even anything close to it. My gran could probably break one of these things in.
I know we bought them from China too but you’d expect it to stand up to more than someone farting while you passed them on a path or whatever or even puffing on a smoke as you pass! I’m sure everyone here never bought it and expected it would only last till the end of the month, 2 or 3 at most! One guy is talking 60k, that sounds worse than a month for some reason!!
I’m seriously thinking of trying the cassette and chain set up. I know KMC make hefty chains. It would be going some to be worse than the IGH has proved to be after Leili have had anything to do with setting it up. However I go I’ll be getting a professional to fit it for me and set it up. They’ll be more familiar with setting these up than I am that’s for damn sure!!
There’s also a British guy on YouTube who does tear downs and service tutorials and things like that on the SA IGH, I’m going to pick his brain if he has the time and doesn’t mind sharing his knowledge. If I find anything useful out I’ll share it for sure.
I’m also tempted to see if I can strip mine out and rebuild it and try Whitz’s solution. Just for fun...
If my bike worked, I could just go out for a run since the weather is great for cycling right now.
RMK!
Well-Known Member
I think you're right @tykoehn1. Ironically, I think the 3 speed SA IGH might have been a better choice for these bikes. That said, I doubt Leili or any other Chinese manufacturer is willing to go down that cheap IGH road again. The below PDF email shows why I decided to stay the course with the IGH. I called them out on this written statement when I subsequently read the second email also below. SA had in fact changed their policy and would not honor warranty on any SA IGH used with an Ultra motor. It is after all a cheap acoustic bike drive train thrown into this situation due to it's simplicity and low cost. When is a bargain not a bargain?
In any case, I ordered the chain drive and will ride the SA IGH until it dies. The chain drive seems like it will have similar issues and until a robust, affordable IGH comes along that will work with high powered motors like the Ultra, I'll just be a cautious rider who is aware of the vulnerabilities of the drive train. I'm not happy about the situation, but it is what it is ...
Edit: Interesting how David Prosser calls out only mid-drive motors. Wonder how they implement a rear drive motor with a rear IGH?
In any case, I ordered the chain drive and will ride the SA IGH until it dies. The chain drive seems like it will have similar issues and until a robust, affordable IGH comes along that will work with high powered motors like the Ultra, I'll just be a cautious rider who is aware of the vulnerabilities of the drive train. I'm not happy about the situation, but it is what it is ...
Edit: Interesting how David Prosser calls out only mid-drive motors. Wonder how they implement a rear drive motor with a rear IGH?
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RMK!
Well-Known Member
Actually, there is already a thread in the Bikonit Section that would be a better place for this discussion.
Swap sand for snow and that's what I've been riding on. But on the flats, less full assistance and more feather the throttle as needed for traction. Steep parts can't get up with legs alone.
Young Jeff: 100mi on conventional roadbike
Old Jeff: Half that distance even with help, but why not try the dirt?
Well, the reason why not is that I came close to disaster yesterday, front wheel over the cliff edge. Another inch of slide and if I didn't break my neck, I'd have been too injured to walk, in a ravine where cell signal doesn't reach. So no more off-road until I find somebody else to ride with.
When I say "off" road, that's not quite true, but "barely" road is probably a better term. Jeeps can get through, or have in the past. Erosion makes the ruts deeper and rocks higher. I spend a lot of time fighting the bike, but that's probably my skill level and fear factor. Some sections I can't get through without more speed, but looking at what comes next, I don't want to have that speed when I exit the slippery spot. One real problem on the steepening slopes is shift sensing. It creates a sort of bubblegum crisis: Stay in a gear that's too high, or downshift and lose headway all at once. Can the IGH safely shift without power interruption?
RMK!
Well-Known Member
As the thread starter, I feel obliged to say that no one should order the MD 1000 (or any other powerful mid-drive ebike) with Sturmey Archer's RX-RK5 Internal Gear Hub (IGH). Reports from here and elsewhere including Leili (the place where I purchased mine) indicate that this is a drive train that is not suitable for this application. It appears that Leili is offering discounts on a SRAM cassette chain replacement and that is the option that I chose.
I'm at 1200 miles on my MD 1000 I am happy with the bike in every regard except the IGH. At times the IGH has worked well and then unexplainably it will slip, clunk and ghost shift in certain gears. I never shift under load but I do start out in and maintain PAS levels 3-5 as well as primarily using the high gears 4 and 5 for most of my rides. Apparently, starting out in higher levels of PAS is also bad for this IGH. If this were are US based product, a recall would probably happen and likely result in bankruptcy for the manufacturer but Chinese companies are of course shielded from any actions against them. If the Bikonit branded version of this bike have been selling well, then I would expect lots of problems for them as the Leili folks tell me that they are experiencing high IGH failure rates with that customer base as well as their unbranded version.
One option worth exploring is using the reportedly more robust SA 3 speed IGH as a replacement. The cost of this is considerably less than the SRAM Chain swapout but it will take some brave and mechanically inclined person to blaze that trail. I reached out to a Sturmey Archer repair shop in the Pacific Northwest about this possibility and thus far, they have not responded. I think Bolton Ebikes might have the best input on this IGH swap out and If enough of their "Warthog MD 1000" customers have failures with the 5 speed, we may eventually see something from them.
In any case, I will continue to use the SA IGH until it breaks and then choose the next best alternative. My order of the SRAM/Chain option from Leili was a just in case - get them while the offer stands decision.
I'm at 1200 miles on my MD 1000 I am happy with the bike in every regard except the IGH. At times the IGH has worked well and then unexplainably it will slip, clunk and ghost shift in certain gears. I never shift under load but I do start out in and maintain PAS levels 3-5 as well as primarily using the high gears 4 and 5 for most of my rides. Apparently, starting out in higher levels of PAS is also bad for this IGH. If this were are US based product, a recall would probably happen and likely result in bankruptcy for the manufacturer but Chinese companies are of course shielded from any actions against them. If the Bikonit branded version of this bike have been selling well, then I would expect lots of problems for them as the Leili folks tell me that they are experiencing high IGH failure rates with that customer base as well as their unbranded version.
One option worth exploring is using the reportedly more robust SA 3 speed IGH as a replacement. The cost of this is considerably less than the SRAM Chain swapout but it will take some brave and mechanically inclined person to blaze that trail. I reached out to a Sturmey Archer repair shop in the Pacific Northwest about this possibility and thus far, they have not responded. I think Bolton Ebikes might have the best input on this IGH swap out and If enough of their "Warthog MD 1000" customers have failures with the 5 speed, we may eventually see something from them.
In any case, I will continue to use the SA IGH until it breaks and then choose the next best alternative. My order of the SRAM/Chain option from Leili was a just in case - get them while the offer stands decision.
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arctic circle
New Member
- Region
- Europe
I agree with the warning Leili company. They do not bear any responsibility for the manufacturer. Only money can get new parts to replace the broken one. They accuse the customer of being a liar and claim that the customer himself broke the bike. I WILL NOT RECOMMEND TO ANYONE !!
tykoehn1
Active Member
Did you see the thread I started a couple days ago about ordering new parts for the IGH? It might now work for you if you live outside the U.S.
My new axle comes in today. I am hoping its an easy swap.
WhitzATL
Member
What's the link to that thread?
tykoehn1
Active Member
SA IGH spare parts
Here is a link to a website that sells spare parts for the IGH. I also attached a pdf of the parts list for the RX-RK5. I am assuming the parts with work on our RSK-RK5. http://sturmey-archerparts.com/ http://sturmey-archerparts.com/completelist.htm
electricbikereview.com
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Terry777
Guest
Have you been out since you changed it to Vertical dropout yet? I’m interested to know as I think turning back the start up curve in the programming may help save the IGH too. Maybe one or both together could be the answer to our problems.
tykoehn1
Active Member
Turning back the start up curve will definitely help! that initial jolt is rough on IGHs, should also cassettes too. Im thinking turning the 0 speed to 50% power and 20 speed to 75%.
Not giving up on the IGH set-up yet!
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Terry777
Guest
I think it would be a case of just playing around till you find it suitable brother. That motor is gutsy enough to be very forgiving I think.
The Ultra has enough power to get away with a much slower delivery on all but the most demanding start ups. I’d agree with those numbers as a place to start. None of us need any kind of precision delivery as for most of us if not all, near enough will do. I think you’ll find it just as powerful pulling away on most asks.
Will be interesting to see...
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Terry777
Guest
Canny wait till I’ve got something to tinker with!
tykoehn1
Active Member
Next time I have it hook to the computer I will take screenshots of my setting and create a new thread. I used Biktrix recommendations for tuning to start.
RMK!
Well-Known Member
I ordered from Leili. They are offering a discount on these parts to people who bought from them. Basically is about $400 USD delivered. As usual, shipping is stupid expensive.
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Terry777
Guest
The Dutch guy I linked to earlier does a real nice layman’s terms description of the main settings. They may do for what we need. If not there is a guy who does the curves but that’s a whole day’s reading! Lol
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