Exploring Bicycle Wheel Sizes and Tires

[Admin]

Hey guys! I learned a bunch of surprising insights about wheel sizes and tires during my last trip to New York City, when visiting @Chris Nolte at Propel. We shot a video together and I created a full guide here but I wanted to repost in the forums so you could see it and add your feedback. There are so many new sizes, axle types, and tire features nowadays... and they can make a big difference on electric bikes because they are heavier and tend to be ridden further and faster. I hope this helps you as it helped me and I welcome your feedback, insights, and corrections if we got anything wrong. What tires are you guys running? Have you had to replace stock tires yet?

 

[Marcus12]

send me a email to [email protected]

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I ride mostly on gravel and chip seal, which is really abrasive. It is very rare to get more than 2000 miles out of a bike tire before the tread is gone -- usually the rear tire loses tread more quickly than the front tire.

 

[christob]

Running on the delivered tires... Schwalbe Fat Frank 50-622 / 28x2 with KGuard. So far, I'm a paved surface biker...

 

[Dmitri]

My completely subjective take on ebike tires:

• Get the widest tires you can fit in your bike frame; clearance literally doesn't matter. It can be as small as a few millimeters and you'll still be fine. For 27.5" tires, you really want to get 3" if you can. If choosing a new ebike, ask the maker for max tire size.
• Sometimes ebike wires stick out; this may not matter if you have the 'stock' tires but installing wider ones, you might need a zip tie or two to brings those sticking-out wires back to the frame.
• Slick tires are meaningless for ebikes unless you guarantee that you'll ride on perfect roads 100% of the time. If you can - sure, go for Super Moto X 2.8 or something similar. But in most situations you want a small-block or semi-slick (Rock Razor, Table Top etc.) tires.
• Knobby tires such as Nobby Nic only make sense if you do aggressive mud riding. Otherwise they create unreasonable vibrations at low speeds -- those are uncomfortable even on dual-sus bikes.
• If you can pick a front fork, getting a 'plus' provides a huge benefit. Don't worry about front-rear width mismatch. The front tire goes over the obstacles first, and suspension + cushioning from a wide tire can absorb most of the impact. Can't help you with the rear tire though.
  • The 27.5+ forks out there all claim to support 3.25" but will, in fact, go for 3.8", though this greatly limits the choices and requires really wide rims. But, you get a fatbike front wheel!
• When rebuilding wheels, go for the widest rims you can possibly go for, because this gives you the option of fatter tires. For 27.5, you want at least 40mm and possibly 50mm and more. Beware of asymmetric rims: they are ok, but look weird and you need to get the direction right.

Separate note on spiked tires:

• Spiked tires need to be 'run in' on flat pavement without any breaking or heavy accelerating. This means you need to buy them and run them in before weather turns cold. If you fail to do this, metal studs can and will fall out. You have been warned.
• You only need them if roads ice over - they don't help with snow. If your roads don't ice over, just get Nobby Nic or similar to get you through the snow.
• Spikes add to width and can catch components or fenders.
• You probably don't need fenders in winter if you get negative (Celcius) temperatures and lots of snow.
• IceSpikers are good, but 45NRTH is way better. 45NRTH lets you do cornering, ice spikers don't. I cannot recommend Kenda, Nokian, Vee - have heard bad things about all of them :|
• A fatbike is as vulnerable to ice as ordinary bike (found this the hard way).

 

[slomoshun]

> Court said: I welcome your feedback, insights….

More definitive information is available from the Sheldon Brown archives. If you are closer to the trade, the Barnett Bicycle Institute and United Bicycle Institute books are of great value.


> Dmitri said: Get the widest tires you can fit in your bike frame…

Tires are load rated. Depending upon a tire's fabrication, the rim's structure and spoke lacing, a small aspect ratio tire can carry the same weight as a fat tire. A narrower, lower volume tire requires higher pressure in order to keep the rim off the pavement during compression. A wide, low pressure tire can keep the rim supported because it has more compressible air volume to absorb road shock. The eBike consumer has sort of been sold a line of marketing BS with the fat tire fad. Although the ride might be cushy and/or have the required visual appeal, wide tires create more drag than higher-pressure narrower tires, and drag hinders speed and requires battery and rider energy to overcome. From an efficiency perspective, I would not recommend the widest tires you can fit in your bike frame. Instead, fit the narrowest tires that will adequately support the combined bike, rider, and cargo weight. If a plush ride is critical, consider a suspension seat post. Or, because the action of bicycling will not allow a rider to perch inertly like a sack of spuds, simply stand on the pedals over harsh bumps.

 

[Over50]

Does anyone know if the Super Moto-X tires on our R&M bikes are the Greenguard or Raceguard variants? Maybe @Dmitri or @Chris Nolte? I was trying to compare the puncture protection of these tires vs my Big Apples on the Tern. The Tern specifies it has the Raceguard on the tirewall (4 out of 6 on Schwalbe's scale) whereas I can't find the specification on the Moto-X tires. Greenguard rates 6 out of 6 on the scale:

https://www.schwalbe.com/en/tour-reader/super-moto-x.html

Thanks if anyone knows and can chime in.

 

[e-boy]

I haven't found many 28mph speed pedelecs with 27.5+ tires .
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[Over50]

I haven't found many 28mph speed pedelecs with 27.5+ tires .
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

Bulls Six50 TR Street.

Yeah, apart from the R&Ms, I think in our prior thread about this we only listed bikes with the Bosch CX motor.

 

[e-boy]

Bulls Six50 TR Street. View attachment 20581



Yeah, apart from the R&Ms, I think in our prior thread about this we only listed bikes with the Bosch CX motor.

They're 27.5 x 2.4 , not + size .
2.8 , 3.0 is + .

 

[Dmitri]

@Over50 sorry I have no idea as my R&M came with Rock Razors. but I'll tell you this, my Tern bike came with Big Apples and I took them to a gravel road (just once!) and got a crack (about 1cm long) on the rear tire. lesson learned, they are for ideally paved roads. honestly I'm not sure why you'd want slick tires on a pedelec

 

[tompat]

If your roads don't ice over, just get Nobby Nic or similar to get you through the snow.

How do the Rock Razors cope with snow?

 

[Dmitri]

How do the Rock Razors cope with snow?

Not suitable. I suggest you remove mudguards and install Wrathchilds. Or, if you really want to keep them, install 2.6 ice Spikers. Or if you have no actual ice, just snow, get Nobby Nics.

 

[Nova Haibike]

The eBike consumer has sort of been sold a line of marketing BS with the fat tire fad. Although the ride might be cushy and/or have the required visual appeal, wide tires create more drag than higher-pressure narrower tires, and drag hinders speed and requires battery and rider energy to overcome.

I suppose it is a case of give 'em what they want. The Sonders bike sold like crazy, so everyone had to jump on the bandwagon.

From an efficiency perspective, I would not recommend the widest tires you can fit in your bike frame. Instead, fit the narrowest tires that will adequately support the combined bike, rider, and cargo weight.

I have put countless numbers of hybrid style tires on mountain bikes because people found that they only rode on pavement and wide knobby tires were not suited for their use. Of course with an e-bike, the motor will help propel oversized and overweight wheels, and with the added weight of motor and battery, a larger tire is warranted. Fat is overkill though, except for when riding on very soft surfaces.

If a plush ride is critical, consider a suspension seat post. Or, because the action of bicycling will not allow a rider to perch inertly like a sack of spuds, simply stand on the pedals over harsh bumps.

One thing I have found in my short time riding an e-bike is that I never stand on the pedals, at least not when starting from a stop, or going up a hill. So I have been thinking more about "going over to the dark side" and installing a suspension seatpost. That is something I would never have considered before. But the combination of rarely standing and a much heavier and stiffer bike is proving to be less comfortable compared to even my racing bikes.

 

[Dmitri]

@slomoshun @Nova Haibike I disagree with the idea that fat tires are a "marketing fad". they might be a marketing fad on mechanical bikes, where plus tires require more effort (and fat tires even more so), but on a pedelec with electrical assistance, you win a lot of comfort, traction, particularly when it comes to cornering and such. all of a sudden you end up with a bike that can go not just on ideal roads, but also into deep snow. for example, 3" tires on an ebike beat a 4.8" mechanical fatbike when going on snow.

suspension seatposts provide marginal comfort. I have extensive experience with CK Thudbuster ST and it's a solution that provides marginal benefits - sure it helps on a hardtail, but compared to a dual-sus bike it's almost negligible. what gives you a plush ride is dual-sus and fatter tires. that's it.

 

[JRA]

I'm thinking of going 650B instead of 700x38c with the Haibike Trekking. The frame is ultra stiff in size S and the back end is bouncing off each and every bump. Even if 650B requires some fender work (cutouts), it doesn't bother me.

I built a 47c 650b to trial in place of my 40c 700c . No problem with fit even with fenders. I like to use as low a psi as I can get away with and the taller profile of the 650b was bouncy and squirmy in the corners I found at the psi I felt was most indicative of the 700c wheel in regards to overall ride comfort and traction. Both setup tubeless btw.

I ended up switching back.

 

[Nova Haibike]

@slomoshun @Nova Haibikeall of a sudden you end up with a bike that can go not just on ideal roads, but also into deep snow. for example, 3" tires on an ebike beat a 4.8" mechanical fatbike when going on snow.

Of course it is very user and or area dependent, but I do not see many people riding in sand or deep snow. Heck, most people here in the USA put their bikes away when it gets cold. I think people tend to fantasize about what a fat bike can do, but the reality is most will rarely need or use the capability. So...if as you say a 3" tire on an e-bike wil beat a 4.5" tire mechanical bike, why does one need a 4.5" tire e-bike?

Anyway, I am just a grouch. LOL. If people want to buy fat tire bikes, who am I to say they should not get one?

 

[Dmitri]

So...if as you say a 3" tire on an e-bike wil beat a 4.5" tire mechanical bike, why does one need a 4.5" tire e-bike?

Well... the benefits of electric compared to ordinary bikes become more pronounced once you have bikes that are difficult to pedal through mechanical action. These include fatbikes, cargo bikes, bikes with heavy planetary hubs (e.g., Rohloff) etc.

As to why you'd want 4.8" (4.5" isn't a thing) as opposed to 3", it's all about running on low pressures - something that's even harder to do with no electric drive. With low pressures, you get both better traction on snow, and better contact on ice, even if that ice is uneven and spikes have trouble catching on. So in winter you'd probably run a 3" tire at around 30psi, whereas on a fatbike tire you can run 20psi or even less with superior results.

 

[JRA]

Regardless I would suggest a rim no less than i25. If you have room for a 2” it might help but have an even higher profile.

Anymore when considering bicycle wheels and tires i only consider tubeless in fact. The technology is in place and it works very well if the industry guidelines are followed.

Running high psi for efficiency means less to me than the ride comfort and control running low psi does. I use 35psi in my 40c tires and tubeless makes it possible. I run 15psi in my 2.3 700c on i35 rims on my MTB as well.

 

[Nova Haibike]

As to why you'd want 4.8" (4.5" isn't a thing)

Not to be a pedant, but Kenda 4.5" among others.

it's all about running on low pressures.

Yeah, I know all about that, and tubeless as well. But MTB'ers are running those kind of pressures even without ginormous sizes. Again, I understand we're talking about e-bikes. I just think for most people (not all), fat tires are not only unnecessary, but counterproductive...you can get traction, comfort, lower weight, and better battery life with a narrower tire.