Saddle pressure, numbness, and maintaining sexual health at 59

[spokewrench]

You're not "sitting" on the bike. You are pedalling it with your feet on the pedals and your hands on the handlebar grips. You do not sit in the chair for hours without changing your position either.

I suffered numb hands when I used to ride upright. Not anymore.

The name "bike seat" is the most misleading. It is a "saddle" not a seat.

I believe Raleigh seats were called saddles. The concept seems right. Sitting on an animal's back is different from most seating. It's moving, you have nothing fixed to hold, and you're trying to maintain control. The Chinese developed paired stirrups in the 4th Century AD. Stirrups have been called as big an advance as the wheel and the printing press. On a bicycle, pedals can be like stirrups, working together with the saddle.

I'd forgotten what I knew about bicycles when I bought a Radrunner. The first thing I noticed about the Schwinn-style upright seating was dangerous instability. I had trouble making a u-turn on a street 5.5 meters wide. When I took one hand off the bar to signal, control with the other hand required such force that I got tennis elbow. I bought a cushy sprung saddle and a suspension post, and it still rode very rough.

I moved the saddle back about 25 cm with a layback post so that my center of mass could be about halfway between saddle and handlebars for stability. Now I could make a u-turn on a driveway 3 meters wide. I'd forgotten that this also improved the geometry between saddle and "stirrups." The pedals braced my weight so that one-hand control was easy. Bumps were no longer a problem except for my hands because I was like an equestrian with most of his weight on the stirrups. Moving the saddle back increased the distance from a pedal at top dead center. I didn't have to bend my knees as sharply, and that meant a better power stroke.

There was too much weight on my hands until I figured out that I needed to get a riser to raise the bars.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

25 cm

2.5 cm or 1"?

 

[mrgold35]

RE: "saddle" vs "seat". One difference in terminology is that usually we expect a "seat" to hold nearly all of our weight and to do so statically. A "saddle" will support us dynamically (while we are moving, e.g. pedaling the bike) and will hold a fraction of our weight, with the rest being supported by our arms and legs. Tucked on a fast downhill you'd expect only a small fraction of your weight (on the order of twenty percent or maybe even less) to be supported by your saddle. One theoretical justification for that fact is that you can more easily make rapid weight shifts to keep yourself on the bike at high speed if your saddle is substantially unweighted. On the other hand, grinding up a slow steep hill you'd probably have eighty percent or more of your weight on the saddle.

I'm think along the lines of "all saddles are seats; but, not all seats are saddles". A see a saddle as a specialized seat that can provide advantages to the rider mounted in the straddled position (grew up in the 70s riding bikes with banana seats). I might be the exception; but, I have more weight on my bike seat when riding (reason for my original seat causing pain in the "man area" on long rides). My arms, upper thighs, and feet are usually more supported with a seat around the home/work/travel compared to a seat/saddle when I'm riding an (e)bike or when I rode horses on a cattle ranch. Seems like something like a Vespa scooter could call it a saddle or seat; but, you really don't straddle a Vespa and the step thru design negates the saddle advantage compared to straddling a horse, traditional mid motor mount engine motorcycle, or (e)bike. I get all the advantages of saddle design along with more even weight distribution advantages with a seat design with the Cloud-9 (Sunlite uses both saddle and seat in its description).

It is A-OK to use saddle or seat in my neck of the woods. People would look at you crazy if you want to "seat a horse". Some older term just might be phasing out like and are moving back as alternate meanings like Britches (pants), Galoshes (rubber boots/rain shoes), Parlor (living room), Ice Box (fridge), vehicle fan belt (serpentine belt or no belt & electric fan only), or Nylons (sheer/pantyhose).

 

[spokewrench]

On the other hand, grinding up a slow steep hill you'd probably have eighty percent or more of your weight on the saddle.

That would leave 20% or less divided between hands and feet. Does that sound like grinding up a steep hill?

My Radrunner had 75 gear inches and no shift. Coming home, I pedal up a 3% grade past a neighbor's porch. Sometimes I'd show off by going past with my front wheel bouncing, kicking each pedal at top dead center hard enough to raise it. It wasn't just torque on the back wheel that lifted the front. Thrusting a pedal forward created back thrust on my body, absorbed by the handlebars and sloped saddle. They were higher than the pedal, so the combination of thrusts tended to rotate the front wheel up.

To kick forward that hard without sliding off the pedal, I must have had most of my weight on that pedal, which can be done if a knee has straightened to 90 degrees or less when the pedal reaches TDC. Getting started that early gave me a long power stroke. It also meant saddle comfort because I could keep most of my weight on my legs, switching from one to the other as in walking.

 

[spokewrench]

2.5 cm or 1"?

10 inches. The seat clamp was 7 inches aft of the bottom bracket. I increased it to 17 inches. Some fitters say the saddle should be back far enough that when a crank arm is straight forward, the end of your knee should be over the pedal spindle. (I check with a laser level because using a plumb bob might alter my riding position.)

 

[Bicyclista]

Thanks for getting me off the dime. I've known for some time that a saddle change is in order but kept putting it off due to the hit-and-miss nature of the process. The very helpful fitting and use case guidance on the SQLabs site gave me enough confidence to enter the gauntlet here:

Amazon.com

Fingers crossed. Anyone have firsthand experience with the 602 M-D Active Cr-Mo?

@Jeremy McCreary, I have the SQLabs 602 M-D Active Cr-Mo on my Yuba Spicy Curry, a cargo bike that I ride almost upright (with some weight on the handlebars), and a 601 Ergolux on my Haibike AllMtn, a mountain bike that I ride with more weight on the handlebars. I use Jones H-Bars with 2.5-inch rise on both bikes. I like both saddles. The 602 provides more perineum relief than the 601. Obviously, saddles are very personal, and comfort for one person may be discomfort for another.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

@Jeremy McCreary, I have the SQLabs 602 M-D Active Cr-Mo on my Yuba Spicy Curry, a cargo bike that I ride almost upright (with some weight on the handlebars), and a 601 Ergolux on my Haibike AllMtn, a mountain bike that I ride with more weight on the handlebars. I use Jones H-Bars with 2.5-inch rise on both bikes. I like both saddles. The 602 provides more perineum relief than the 601. Obviously, saddles are very personal, and comfort for one person may be discomfort for another.

Thanks! Right now, perineal relief is top priority, so the 602 sounds like a great next step in my personal saddle saga. Should ave my 602 in a week. Fingers crossed!

 

[m@Robertson]

Thanks! Right now, perineal relief is top priority, so the 602 sounds like a great next step in my personal saddle saga. Should ave my 602 in a week. Fingers crossed!

I went with the 610 MD. Perineal relief was also my main goal. The 602 is aimed more at the upright riding position, whereas the 610 is geared for riding with more of a lean-over posture.

I also bought one of the 610 M-D Active saddles with the more or less standard cover. Based on what I read from a reviewer, I immediately switched out the active suspension insert for the white soft one. What comes initially installed from the factory is too stiff, and if you want the benefit of that rocking motion, you need to spend the (several) minutes changing out to the soft one. I learned the value of the rocking from my Ergon ST Core Primes that do the same job with entire layers of saddle padding. Putting in the soft white insert makes a big change in comfort.

After trying that first one, for the next bike I needed to change, I decided to spring for the Active v2.1 and see how it felt. Its worth the extra money in added comfort, so for my third and last bike I did it again. I use the v2.1's on my riding bikes and the original on my indoor trainer.

One last thing on SQLab saddles: You will benefit by re-learning where to sit on one. Your sit bones are best served by consciously moving backwards on the saddle and sitting further back than you think you should. Or at least that was true for me. Those last two bumps/pads on the saddle at rear are put to good use. On the older version there is no visible difference in the rear area but the principle held.

 

[m@Robertson]

Oh and also I have available for sale two Ergon ST Core Prime saddles in Small/Medium size (which is wrong for me). Both are in excellent looks-almost-new condition. And an Ergon SMC Core Men's mtb saddle in Small/Medium. Barely used and looks new again. I've been too lazy to put them on Ebay but I need to sell them off to defray the cost of the three SQLabs.

I had thought the narrower saddles would be better for me on bikes I pedaled hard, and they were, but they put too much perineal pressure on which made them bad for me. The long/narrow nose of the SQLabs fixed that pedaling issue.

 

[smorgasbord]

Thanks! Right now, perineal relief is top priority, so the 602 sounds like a great next step in my personal saddle saga. Should ave my 602 in a week. Fingers crossed!

I bought one of those for myself, but my wife stole it:

Saddle 602 M-D active

The M-D Line was developed for maximum relief of sensitive areas. The M-D Line stands for Maximized Dip, and in combination with the high classic step shape, distributes the weight of the rider to the sit bones. The 602 M-D is for touring bikes with moderate to upright position. The relief of...

sqlab-usa.com

 

[spokewrench]

I bought this 18 months ago by comparing the dimensions and distribution of padding to my OE saddle. It worked out great.

Amazon.com

 

[6zfshdb]

I haven't figured this one out yet:

Bicycle Seats | New Light, LLC.

Turn to New Light, LLC. for superior bicycle seats designed for comfort and performance. To learn more, visit our page.

moonsaddle.com

 

[spokewrench]

I bought this 3 years ago when I thought the geometry of my bike forced me to stick with what they call "posture 5." Moving the saddle back 10 inches allowed me to go to "posture 4." It was still comfortable, but a narrower saddle was also comfortable and let me pedal better.

Amazon.com

 

[RMSDivine]

@Jeremy McCreary, I have the SQLabs 602 M-D Active Cr-Mo on my Yuba Spicy Curry, a cargo bike that I ride almost upright (with some weight on the handlebars), and a 601 Ergolux on my Haibike AllMtn, a mountain bike that I ride with more weight on the handlebars. I use Jones H-Bars with 2.5-inch rise on both bikes. I like both saddles. The 602 provides more perineum relief than the 601. Obviously, saddles are very personal, and comfort for one person may be discomfort for another.

After long searching I was going to choose a noseless saddle however I’ve read about bike control seems to be impossible. The 602 md seems to be a good compromise. Can you please describe your feelings about prostate pressure and overall thoughts? I am not scared from hard saddles…. My superflow saddle is very hard and my bike is a emtb riese muller

 

[Robspace1]

Cane Creek seat post suspension and a Cloud 9 gel saddle. Ride free from road pain. It makes the long 25-35 mile ride fun and not an endurance test.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Jury's still out on my new SQLabs 602 MD after only 5-6 rides totaling 60 miles or so, but here's the score so far:

o Perineum is painless now — big win!
o Coccyx hurts now, but only when I slide forward in the saddle and allow myself to stay there for awhile.
o Sit bones remain painless.

The new coccyx pain was worst at the nearly flat saddle angle recommended by SQLabs. Better with the nose one click up. Fingers crossed for 2 clicks up.

If I can't fix the coccyx issue, my butt range will be no better than it was before the 602.

 

[Prairie Dog]

I haven't figured this one out yet:

View attachment 172628

Bicycle Seats | New Light, LLC.

Turn to New Light, LLC. for superior bicycle seats designed for comfort and performance. To learn more, visit our page.

moonsaddle.com

Yes, I'm bein' followed by a moonsaddle
Moonsaddle, moonsaddle
Leapin' and hoppin' on a moonsaddle
Moonsaddle, moonsaddle

And if I ever lose my legs
I won’t moan and I won’t beg
Oh, if I ever lose my legs
Oh if, I won't have to ride no more.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I haven't figured this one out yet:

View attachment 172628

Bicycle Seats | New Light, LLC.

Turn to New Light, LLC. for superior bicycle seats designed for comfort and performance. To learn more, visit our page.

moonsaddle.com

Quote:
"Then there are saddles," I went on--I wished to get this lesson home to him. "Can you think of any saddle ever advertised that you have not tried?"

He said: "It has been an idea of mine that the right saddle is to be found."

I said: "You give up that idea; this is an imperfect world of joy and sorrow mingled. There may be a better land where bicycle saddles are made out of rainbow, stuffed with cloud; in this world the simplest thing is to get used to something hard. There was that saddle you bought in Birmingham; it was divided in the middle, and looked like a pair of kidneys."

He said: "You mean that one constructed on anatomical principles."

"Very likely," I replied. "The box you bought it in had a picture on the cover, representing a sitting skeleton--or rather that part of a skeleton which does sit."

He said: "It was quite correct; it showed you the true position of the--"

I said: "We will not go into details; the picture always seemed to me indelicate."

He said: "Medically speaking, it was right."

"Possibly," I said, "for a man who rode in nothing but his bones. I only know that I tried it myself, and that to a man who wore flesh it was agony. Every time you went over a stone or a rut it nipped you; it was like riding on an irritable lobster. You rode that for a month."

"I thought it only right to give it a fair trial," he answered.

I said: "You gave your family a fair trial also; if you will allow me the use of slang. Your wife told me that never in the whole course of your married life had she known you so bad tempered, so un-Christian like, as you were that month. Then you remember that other saddle, the one with the spring under it."

He said: "You mean 'the Spiral.'"

I said: "I mean the one that jerked you up and down like a Jack-in-the-box; sometimes you came down again in the right place, and sometimes you didn't. I am not referring to these matters merely to recall painful memories, but I want to impress you with the folly of trying experiments at your time of life."

Unquote.
/Jeremy K. Jeremy, "Three Men On The Bummel" (1900)/

The idea that the right saddle is yet to be found has been one of the most silly myths of the cyclist community for the last 124 years

 

[RMSDivine]

Ischial tuberosity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm 76. Ischial tubereosity. They're made to take the pressure of sitting. They're about 4 inches apart, so a seat doesn't have to be wide, as long as it has firm padding where it's needed. The seat looks like the OE seat, but my sitbones were hitting metal with the original. This seat has better padding where it counts.

I moved the seat back so that when I lean forward against the bars to put weight over the pedals, there's not much weight on the seat. That's good for letting my legs pedal and letting them absorb bumps. I raised the bars to the point where leaning forward against them doesn't put much weight on my hands. That posture keeps my upper body stable, pressed forward from the seat and back from the bars. (Those pressures are fairly small.)

I tilted the seat so that when pressure from the bars and pedals pushes my butt back against the seat, my sitbones will stay in just the right position. The combination of a fairly narrow saddle and a tilt also minimizes contact with anything but my sitbones. There's another advantage. When I stop, I can easily slide forward and down. When I get under way, I can slide up and back, for a better pedaling position. All three of my ebikes are like that.

Looks ways too tilted…is your posture comfortable?

 

[spokewrench]

Looks ways too tilted…is your posture comfortable?

It's like walking but more comfortable. The New Light people say your weight should be evenly distributed between butt, legs, and hands, and too much weight on any of them can be uncomfortable. Then they say 40% seat, 40% legs, 20% hands. How did they measure that? That much weight on hands doesn't sound at all comfortable on bumps. (I use bar height to regulate the weight on my hands.)

A seat surface should be perpendicular to the vector sum of the forces it resists. Leaning forward against the bars generates some back thrust. So does pedaling, as the pedals are well forward of my hips. The weight vector is small because most of my weight is on my legs. When I'm not pedaling, I rest by standing on the pedal at bottom dead center. If I use my calf muscles to extend that ankle an inch or two, I can lift my butt off the seat and my hands off the bars. That shows that my weight is centered over the pedals and my legs control how much weight is on the seat and the bars.

The first rear-wheel-drive bikes were not popular because the smaller wheels made them rougher riding than high wheelers. James Starley made the first successful high wheeler. His nephew John made the first successful rear wheel drive bike by moving the seat back to take weight off the butt. I was so disgusted with spring seats and suspension posts that I go further than most, preferring to leave just enough pressure on seat and bars for stability. With no suspension, I can "float" over speed bumps at 23 mph.

https://www.bdc-mag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Charles_Terront_vainqueur_de_Paris-Brest-Paris_1891-_2.jpg

Charles Terront rode English bikes with that seating. Unfortunately, they had swept-back bars to serve as torsion springs for the hands. This was counterproductive, making the angle from shoulder to hand grip steeper, resulting in more weight on his hands. He's stooped over, using his back muscles to reduce weight on his hands. Higher grips, farther forward, let me lean forward without strain.

He came in 8 hours ahead of his nearest competitor. That's because moving the seat aft allows a longer power stroke, and that means greater stamina.