Handlebars
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Electric Car thread
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mschwett
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i’m referring to the height limits for buildings, which are extremely specific/precise/stringent in most of california. they’re a frequent nimby tool to control or prevent development. they’re often measured to the top of the finished roof, and only certain things are exempt, e.g. exhaust fans, railings, chimneys etc. over time the hundreds of individual jurisdictions started adding solar panels (which are often a couple feet tall on flat roofs) to the exemptions, but they’re now exempt by state law.
this is a minor one, but there are dozens of other laws passed in the last 10-15 years making it much, much easier to build renewable energy projects in california and other states.
the bottom line is that there is an incredible amount of solar and wind in the pipeline, and even the fastest imaginable uptake in EVs won’t make too big of a dent with even the most rudimentary scheduling and metering.
from a good bloomberg article on the topic:
There’s a Mind-Bending Amount of Solar in the US Pipeline
And there’s a lot of battery capacity too.
www.bloomberg.com
many, many people who paint various doom and gloom scenarios for EVs are just shills for the petroleum industry.
Readytoride
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Or are terrified by what they don't know. It was the same 120 years ago when transportation was shifting from horses to motorized vehicles. Rather fun to read the "doom and gloom" articles in the old carriaging journals against the new horseless vehicles...until around 10 years later when those carriage makers found themselves busy supplying carriage bodies for motorized use as the horse fell out of favor.
Seems like we're on that same merry-go-round once again.
Thanks for the explanation regarding the building height limit.
LOL Renewals are backwards not forwards. Plus they are a total joke . We can't even have renewables without gas/oil and coal . Ohh and slave labor out of China . Who by the way laughs at Climate nonsense . The amount of Methane going into the atmosphere from Nordstream is 100 times what gasoline engines create . Or coal plants or oil refineries.
Renewals ??? What on earth is being renewed ??? This is simply about controlling the population . Anyone who can't see these Climate alarmists are scammers all getting rich is deceived. To the point of being delusional .
It's insane to think renewal energy is the new future. It's the new population control and demise . Anyone who doesn't agree should show how I and those like me are wrong .
Not to mention how can they know . when we didn't even have records on climate until quite recently. It's just a big scam . If it wasn't why are those imposing these restrictions on gas /oil etc. Not applying it to themselves
mschwett
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actually, what's "insane" is not understanding the fundamental science behind the ongoing source of all energy on earth: the sun. no need to reply, i won't see it.
Readytoride
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Thank you for the article link. It's nice to see some positive movement planned for the future.
The gas stations are already slated to follow the livery stables into history unless they adopt the new mode of fueling (watts rather than gas). I wonder how it will shake out....?
Fun Fact: Most livery stables, because of their ideal location at the entry and exit in towns, became gas stations and car repair garages.
that makes no sense at all .actually, what's "insane" is not understanding the fundamental science behind the ongoing source of all energy on earth: the sun. no need to reply, i won't see it.
Readytoride
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1920 vs 2020. Never noticed the similarity before.
Taylor57
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Looks like the ICE car is being filled in Yakima, where is the EV being charged?
Readytoride
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The Grand Canyon National Park.
I just thought the single independent pump/independant EV station, both with a similar looking "hose", looked like a mirror image 100 years apart. I wasn't aware that fuel pumps, like the one in the photo, had been independantly available along streets, etc and not tied to a garage setting. I assumed they were always within the confines of a garage or service station due to the tank needed to store the fuel, and attendants to account for payment.
I'm used to using independent free chargers that are randomly placed in grocery store parking lots, in city parks, outside of office buildings, etc. No infrastructure needed except for the electric delivery (underground and not subject to a container") and possibly a credit card payment system if the charge isn't free.
I always like to say that "you just don't see them because they are stand alone, small and narrow. They can be placed anywhere. They don't need to be restricted to a big gas station" when people (who drive gas cars) say that they never see any electric car chargers when they drive. It's going to take a different mindset before those used to today's huge ICE supply infrastructure understand EV supply infrastructure is totally different.
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LOL The Left Coast ??? That's a good one . But they aren't all lefties .
Readytoride
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An interesting read:
The distance to the Moon and the length of the day 2.46 billion years ago
The last sentence in this paragraph, based on what these ancient 2.46 billion year old earth records reveal, is very telling:
"
Short day
Over time, the rotation of Earth around its axis has also slowed down. This was known since long, but Lantink has now found a way to establish how long a day lasted on the early Earth: 17 hours, rather than the current 24. In an earlier study she conducted together with colleagues from Switzerland, she already showed that the Earth’s climate underwent regular changes 2.5 billion years ago due to periodic changes in the shape of the Earth’s orbit. Lantink clarifies that today’s climate change does not have an astronomical cause: it is occurring at vastly shorter time scales, and we humans are responsible for it."
Sources included with the article.
Sparky731
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We just have to be realistic in our ability to transition green. Yes we must throttle back on non-renewables to make us feel the pain, but don’t cut off our noses in spite of our faces.
I worked for an energy producer for many years. Nuclear, coal, hydro, gas, wind and solar. It takes a balanced portfolio. The most operationally expensive is wind given the incredibly high maintenance requirements of blades and bearings. Next is nuclear due to regulation cost, not operational cost.
Transmission expansion is incredibly difficult. But so is local distribution — especially in urban areas. Until you are responsible for those electrons lighting up your customer’ light bulbs you may not be able to comprehend the complexity of energy creation and distribution. Consider the requirements to change just one small highway interchange and all of the re-distribution of power lines and cable TV, etc. mounted on poles, when traffic needs change. Wouldn’t it be grand if every power line was underground?
Now consider that you are the distribution provider and your absolute FERC requirement to deliver 60 hertz within .005%, and you must intake any local household who installed a wind generator that is churning more electrons than the owner needs, and they are coming onto the grid at 59.2 Hertz … The whole local grid can come down just because your generators cannot adequate balance that incoming dirty load. So you run it to ground and suffer the “not green enough” ridicule.
This is just one minute example of the demands put on our energy grid. Putting more load on the lines is not a simple equation. Everything must be balanced. Best to pay attention to the stability of the grid. Is it hardened against cyber attack? Not always …
I worked for an energy producer for many years. Nuclear, coal, hydro, gas, wind and solar. It takes a balanced portfolio. The most operationally expensive is wind given the incredibly high maintenance requirements of blades and bearings. Next is nuclear due to regulation cost, not operational cost.
Transmission expansion is incredibly difficult. But so is local distribution — especially in urban areas. Until you are responsible for those electrons lighting up your customer’ light bulbs you may not be able to comprehend the complexity of energy creation and distribution. Consider the requirements to change just one small highway interchange and all of the re-distribution of power lines and cable TV, etc. mounted on poles, when traffic needs change. Wouldn’t it be grand if every power line was underground?
Now consider that you are the distribution provider and your absolute FERC requirement to deliver 60 hertz within .005%, and you must intake any local household who installed a wind generator that is churning more electrons than the owner needs, and they are coming onto the grid at 59.2 Hertz … The whole local grid can come down just because your generators cannot adequate balance that incoming dirty load. So you run it to ground and suffer the “not green enough” ridicule.
This is just one minute example of the demands put on our energy grid. Putting more load on the lines is not a simple equation. Everything must be balanced. Best to pay attention to the stability of the grid. Is it hardened against cyber attack? Not always …
Mulezen
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Being REALISTIC has been a non-starter for more than 30 years. This has been entrenched energy’s argument since the Carter Administration when we led the world in solar development. Nuclear as currently deployed is non-feasible. Wind, solar and other tech are the cheapest by far to develop now. Just in this country the real costs of delay register everyday in the news. These calamities ripple causing a cascade of secondary effects like the commercial beehives destroyed outside Fort Meyer (they were from up and down the EC), or the much stronger storms over the mid-west (record hail etc.) generated by the huge fires in the west, Mississippi/Missouri river flow…lots more. The economics of all this alone should give a hot foot to anyone against combatting this existential crisis…here I’m thinking of the Pols in DC so cozy with the fossil fuel industries.
Taylor57
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Well if Margaret Lantink wrote it, it must be gospel....
Handlebars
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Latlink is a garbage scientist. What was "hide the decline" about? The fact that the very topmost famous climate scientists were hiding the inconvenient truth that the main proxy for ancient temperatures was showing the opposite of what they claimed, in a modern time when we could compare what they do. They were claiming against their own evidence, the hottest decade in one thousand years. The tree ring proxy was going down when thermometers said it was going up. So they cheated by substituting thermometer temperatures for tree ring proxy temperatures, to show a perfect match, and colored and labeled it falsely, as tree ring data
So they deceived the World Meteorological Organization after they deceived Nature journal ( hence Phil Jones, one of the named cheaters, calling it "Mike's Nature Trick" as Michael Mann conspired with Jones after doing Nature in a more subtle cheat). And they deceived the world.
Picture 1 is the real proxy data in black
Picture 2 is their cheat
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Readytoride
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This also played out in the centuries before when the horse provided the main power for just anything that required big energy needs. The infrastructure to supply the ongoing needs to this source of power was immense, complex, interconnected. Distribution required housing, food, supplies, manual labor and an economy capable of supporting all of the above. As civilization expanded, thanks to the horse, the need to support it grew as well. From the companies procuring hides to be tanned, cut, sewn into harness, to the steel mills obtaining raw materials to make and distribute millions of steel bars ready to shape into horse shoes to millions of farriers who had to obtain the knowledge, supplies (anvils, hammers, forges) to make the shoes for millions of work horses that required a regular 6 week cycle of trimming, re-setting/new shoes, or emergency repair/replacement of shoes. It's a fascinating study when you dive deep enough to understand how complex it was to sustain just one working horse in a world that required thousands if not millions of them to fill the energy supply needs. Water and wind helped share the burden, although they were tied to inconsistent sources that were not 100% reliable. Once electricity was harnessed (pun intended) and society could leave the horse behind, civilization took another big step forward.
Interesting to study how the transition from the horse to the Grid took place. Small steps over decades. It will be interesting to see how the Grid will be modified to incorporate successfully an ever increasing supply of solar and wind into a mix that is still reliant on fossil fuels. I suspect small steps once again.
Tomorrow, when I check my house's smart meter showing me my solar array's production and my consumption of electricity that the Grid is managing for me, especially when I plug in my EV to recharge, I'll do so with a deeper appreciation of the massive workings hidden behind the power lines lying underground connecting me and my house to the worldwide energy industry. (Thank you @Sparky731 ☺)
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