Ebikemotion x35 speed limiter "fix"

[rdv]

I recently purchased a Bianchi Aria E road bike and have been challenged in locating the feature within the ebikemotion app that controls the percentage level of assist. Could you please list the step by step method in changing the factory default settings. Thanks.

Posting my questions regarding the Ebikemotion X35 and Specialized SL1.1 motors on the EBT Intros page didn't yield the specific answers I was seeking, but a read through several spring 2019 posts on this sub-forum helped considerably, so thanks to Ed B and fellow contributors for sharing their early experiences, especially as they concern climbing.

What I gathered is that the X35's assist responds primarily to cadence, with a sweet spot at around 70-80 rpm. That is my typical range in the flats and over shallower grades. Once I'm in the easiest gear my rpms tend to drop to roughly 60-70 on 8-10% slopes, 50-60 on 10-12%, and the 40s at (short runs of) 13-14%, my limit. Speed is not a concern.

If I understand correctly the motor will provide up to ~250w of assistance at 70-80 rpm and take me up some steeper grades at that rate (up to 10%?), but I'm not clear on what happens when the cadence drops on more challenging 10-15% slopes. A Granfondo review suggests that the X35 falters on steep grades, presumably due to slowing cadence. That's worrisome since it's on steep grades that help is needed the most. Hope some members have in-use experience they can share.

This would seem to be where the heart rate feature might help, by taking over control, relying on escalating heart rate thresholds to provide increasing levels of assist regardless of cadence. Does it actually work that way?

My other concern is noise. In a video review the SL1.1 comes across as objectionably noisy. How noisy is the X35? Ed B alludes to some intrusion in one of his posts without elaborating. Any added observations are welcom

Thanks. Rob Dv

 

[Wiliertrestina]

rdv@, the X35 output do not respond to cadence (rpm) but real speed. But this is also depending on the setup of the engine (different by bike manufacturer). On a Wilier your reach a % of assistance for a specific speed that is different by level. Ex: At 10km/h on level 1 you have 40% of max power and on level 3 you get 70%. SL1.1 works differently.

 

[rdv]

Whether speed or cadence, it's the level of assist on climbs that I'd like to understand better. I'd expect that a speed of 10km/6mi per hour would occur on a steep climb, the primary instance where I'd want 100% assist. Is that made available by the X35 at 10km/h, or is it limited to 70% ~175w period, outside the rider's control? Then at what speed is the full ~250w assist available? And what assist level is available at 23-24 km/h (prior to assistance cutting out in EU)?

 

[Wiliertrestina]

Whether speed or cadence, it's the level of assist on climbs that I'd like to understand better. I'd expect that a speed of 10km/6mi per hour would occur on a steep climb, the primary instance where I'd want 100% assist. Is that made available by the X35 at 10km/h, or is it limited to 70% ~175w period, outside the rider's control? Then at what speed is the full ~250w assist available? And what assist level is available at 23-24 km/h (prior to assistance cutting out in EU)?

No engine will give you 100% of power wathever the speed/cadence. They are all designed to follow a speed/cadence - power curve. This curve may be different by assist level (on X35 3 levels), and each bike manufacturer may choose different curves set up with the same engine. See the Wilier chart on my post 246#, page 13.

 

[rdv]

Thanks WT. Appreciate your feedback. I didn't actually expect to get 250w at 100% maximum assistance, but hoped for better than 225w, The real downer is that that's not available where I need it most, on slow steep climbs. I should have paid closer attention to your post #246 the first time I read it. It's very informative, though what it tells me is disappointing. Not sure whether 175w at 10km/h are sufficient for my capabilities. And if I were forced to slow down to 7-8 km/h the assist would quickly drop to 125w. I'll try to contact Bianchi and Orbea (because their largest frame geometries come closest to my current good fit) to see if I can get their USA curves.

 

[Wiliertrestina]

Thanks WT. Appreciate your feedback. I didn't actually expect to get 250w at 100% maximum assistance, but hoped for better than 225w, The real downer is that that's not available where I need it most, on slow steep climbs. I should have paid closer attention to your post #246 the first time I read it. It's very informative, though what it tells me is disappointing. Not sure whether 175w at 10km/h are sufficient for my capabilities. And if I were forced to slow down to 7-8 km/h the assist would quickly drop to 125w. I'll try to contact Bianchi and Orbea (because their largest frame geometries come closest to my current good fit) to see if I can get their USA curves.

I can only give you my feeling about it. I'm disabled for a couple of years (been crushed by a drunk driver) and lost about half of my previous power. I used to have about 340W AMP before my accident. So now I can hardly pudh higher than 180W. I don't go on very steep climbs, but at 12% with level 3 I don't have any problem to maintain 10-12km/h, although this is highly battery consuming. I agree that it's best to get the curves before you choose. You may also ask to Wilier because I'm not sure they did the same in US and Europe. Good luck.

 

[rdv]

WT, thanks for your input, it provides useful perspective. I requested USA speed/power curves from Bianchi, Orbea, and Wilier a week back. Only response so far was from Orbea, and only to tell me to pursue it with a dealer. The EU Wilier curves (extrapolated) may have to suffice.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

WT, thanks for your input, it provides useful perspective. I requested USA speed/power curves from Bianchi, Orbea, and Wilier a week back. Only response so far was from Orbea, and only to tell me to pursue it with a dealer. The EU Wilier curves (extrapolated) may have to suffice.

Hi RDV
just to say I'm not very technical but when looking for an ebike hill climbing was my main concern & reason for buying. I went for the Sp. Vado SL over the Ebikemotion equipped bikes, having read the Specialized 1.1 motor, being mid drive rather then hub would be better on steep gradients. I've no way of comparing to see if that is true. I have a lot of 15 to 20% gradients on the hills here and the bike struggled with my slower cadence on the very steep sections. I replaced the 44T praxis chainring with a race face narrow wide 38T and the difference has been remarkable. My cadence is much higher, or rather on the steep parts I can still spin fairly comfortably and the motor seems to like this sweet spot. I did a 38 mile ride yesterday with 10 miles of ferocious hills, on the steepest slopes 17% to 20% I was in Turbo and yes in granny gear but unlike with the 44T I was still moving fairly efficiently. In other words I think being prepared to switch chain rings and or cassette sizes for your local conditions is important. I guess bikes are basically sold on a one size fits all given most customers have a mix of hills & flats so on these forums I've seen discussions about getting bigger chainrings for living with no hills and vice versa. But this is changing with the newer bike manufacturers using direct to consumer models having 'bike builder' sections where you can swap out components before purchase. Or the Cube method of basically having about a thousand variations of every model!

I hope Specialized might give this option some thought in the future, easily swapping chainrings, grips, saddles etc and even 700c to 650b wheels before purchase. This would be great to really focus in on the bike that's best for each customers local riding conditions. I think Orbea do this and certainly Ribble in the UK does.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Anyone know if there is a light (sub 30 pound) e-road bike on the market that comes with a torque sensor?

 

[PD123]

Anyone tried this? https://www.speedfun.bike/en/prodotto/speedfun-ghost-for-ebikemotion-x35/

 

[Wiliercento]

Quelqu'un a essayé ça? https://www.speedfun.bike/en/prodotto/speedfun-ghost-for-ebikemotion-x35/

D'après la vidéo, ça a l'air fiable, mais 149 € pour gagner 4 km : confus:
Il va que jusqu'à 29 Km / h, mais c'est déjà pas mal
merci du lien

 

[Wiliertrestina]

Je pense que c'est le même principe que celui vendu par la boite australienne. ça fonctionne effectivement jusqu'à ces vitesses, mais en divisant par deux ou trois la puissance de l'assistance au delà des 25. De sorte que pour sentir un quelconque bénéfice il faut se mettre sur le 3ème niveau. J'ai revendu le mien, je n'y trouvais pas mon compte.

 

[JBbike]

After seeking for a system for the speed limit fix I bought this option:

SW Smart Wallbox Tuneador para Sistema Ebikemotion X35 (Orbea Gain, WIlier Cento 1, Jena, Triestrina, Cannondale Quick Neo, Lapierre eSensium, Merida Escultura, Ribble CGR AL e). Deslimitador: Amazon.es: Deportes y aire libre

Compra online SW Smart Wallbox Tuneador para Sistema Ebikemotion X35 (Orbea Gain, WIlier Cento 1, Jena, Triestrina, Cannondale Quick Neo, Lapierre eSensium, Merida Escultura, Ribble CGR AL e). Deslimitador. Envío en 1 día GRATIS con Amazon Prime.

www.amazon.es

Is the cheaper version I have found.

There is another version for the Orbea Gain Carbon version:

SW SMART WALLBOX Tuneador para Sistema Ebikemotion X35 y X35+ (Orbea Gain, WIlier Cento 10, Bianchi Aria, Dyodo, Colnago E64, Scott Addict). Deslimitador: Amazon.es: Deportes y aire libre

Compra online SW SMART WALLBOX Tuneador para Sistema Ebikemotion X35 y X35+ (Orbea Gain, WIlier Cento 10, Bianchi Aria, Dyodo, Colnago E64, Scott Addict). Deslimitador. Envío en 1 día GRATIS con Amazon Prime.

www.amazon.es

Working until 30km/h.

 

[Wiliertrestina]

After seeking for a system for the speed limit fix I bought this option:

SW Smart Wallbox Tuneador para Sistema Ebikemotion X35 (Orbea Gain, WIlier Cento 1, Jena, Triestrina, Cannondale Quick Neo, Lapierre eSensium, Merida Escultura, Ribble CGR AL e). Deslimitador: Amazon.es: Deportes y aire libre

Compra online SW Smart Wallbox Tuneador para Sistema Ebikemotion X35 (Orbea Gain, WIlier Cento 1, Jena, Triestrina, Cannondale Quick Neo, Lapierre eSensium, Merida Escultura, Ribble CGR AL e). Deslimitador. Envío en 1 día GRATIS con Amazon Prime.

www.amazon.es

Is the cheaper version I have found.

There is another version for the Orbea Gain Carbon version:

SW SMART WALLBOX Tuneador para Sistema Ebikemotion X35 y X35+ (Orbea Gain, WIlier Cento 10, Bianchi Aria, Dyodo, Colnago E64, Scott Addict). Deslimitador: Amazon.es: Deportes y aire libre

Compra online SW SMART WALLBOX Tuneador para Sistema Ebikemotion X35 y X35+ (Orbea Gain, WIlier Cento 10, Bianchi Aria, Dyodo, Colnago E64, Scott Addict). Deslimitador. Envío en 1 día GRATIS con Amazon Prime.

www.amazon.es

Working until 30km/h.

It is the same principle as the two other supplier, hence with the same backdraw, i.e. almost no assistance between 25 and 30km/h.

 

[PeterG]

Posting my questions regarding the Ebikemotion X35 and Specialized SL1.1 motors on the EBT Intros page didn't yield the specific answers I was seeking, but a read through several spring 2019 posts on this sub-forum helped considerably, so thanks to Ed B and fellow contributors for sharing their early experiences, especially as they concern climbing.

What I gathered is that the X35's assist responds primarily to cadence, with a sweet spot at around 70-80 rpm. That is my typical range in the flats and over shallower grades. Once I'm in the easiest gear my rpms tend to drop to roughly 60-70 on 8-10% slopes, 50-60 on 10-12%, and the 40s at (short runs of) 13-14%, my limit. Speed is not a concern.

If I understand correctly the motor will provide up to ~250w of assistance at 70-80 rpm and take me up some steeper grades at that rate (up to 10%?), but I'm not clear on what happens when the cadence drops on more challenging 10-15% slopes. A Granfondo review suggests that the X35 falters on steep grades, presumably due to slowing cadence. That's worrisome since it's on steep grades that help is needed the most. Hope some members have in-use experience they can share.

This would seem to be where the heart rate feature might help, by taking over control, relying on escalating heart rate thresholds to provide increasing levels of assist regardless of cadence. Does it actually work that way?

My other concern is noise. In a video review the SL1.1 comes across as objectionably noisy. How noisy is the X35? Ed B alludes to some intrusion in one of his posts without elaborating. Any added observations are welcom

Thanks. Rob Dv

I've bought Wilier Cento10 recently. I've also read Granfondo reviews and was concerned about the support at steep uphills, so did some tests on short climb (400m) with average grade ca. 10% and steepest part 13.9%. I was interested, how much effort (heart rate) I need to put to climb it comfortably (i.e. do not exceed ca. 125 bpm if possible). Drivetrain: crankset 50/34T, casette 11-30T.
1. lowest support, the lowest gears (34T front, 30T cassette), avg. 116 bpm, max. ca. 126 bpm, avg speed 10.7 km/h;
2. medium support, 2nd lowest gear on the cassette, avg. 117 bpm, max. ca. 127 bpm, avg. speed 11.6 km/h;
3. max. support, 3rd lowest gear on the cassette, avg. 118 bpm, max. ca. 127 bpm, avg. speed 14.0 km/h;
I've found the support OK for me for now* (see please Strava output). Does that help?

* I'm 62yo, in a quite good shape this year (e.g. normal road bike solo ride 184km@2065m elevation, avg 26.3 km/h), but unfortunately I can no longer ride that intensively/hardly (i.e. higher HR for longer time) due to a recently detected defect on cardio examination.

 

[rdv]

Thank you PeterG for the post. Much appreciated, especially the correlation to heart rate. We seem to be I the same boat. Congratulations on your Wilier, wish you many miles of enjoyment.

For reasons I'm trying to sort out with a pulmonologist and cardiologist, lately I've been limited to roughly 100 bpm for the first hour of a ride, ~110 bpm the second, ~120-130 max bpm beyond that. Pushing harder brings on chest discomfort that turns into ache and pain unless I relent. Albuterol inhaler does not help, ruling out exercise induced asthma. If it's something that cannot be readily remedied, an e-road bike would be the way forward.

From your feedback I gather that there are some greater assist/lower gear combinations available that should make it possible to climb faster, or steeper, or with less effort (as might be my case).

Any observations regarding the noise level?

Not a request, but welcome if possible would be additional tests on longer or steeper hills, and any other feedback that piqued your own interest. Would welcome anyone else's feedback as well.

Again, thanks and wishes for safe and rewarding riding to all.

 

[PeterG]

No problem with the noise, motor is audible, but not annoying or disturbing.
Unfortunately there is bad weather here, low temperatures close to 0°C and fog - winter is started. In such weather, once the ground is frozen, I prefer to ride MTB at lower speeds, so on new Wilier I did only one longer ride 2 weeks ago with my friend to test a "group" ride, please find below one Strava segment that could interests you: 2.1km, avg. grade 5.1%, steepest part 12%. On the steepest part I used the lowest gearing (34/30), medium support and climb it quite easily from the saddle (making personal best time compared to standard road bike, of course ).
For comparison, the second picture is the same segment rode on standard road bike.

 

[rdv]

Thanks for the additional input. Presume the 144-156 bpm effort preceded the onset of your cardio issue. Your experiences give me confidence that the the X35 would work for me.
As to riding conditions, is mean of me to admit that a typical Southern California day starts out at ~10-12 C and rises to a sunny ~25 C?

 

[PeterG]

Yes, that ride is from October 27th before I know about my cardio issue. It is dangerous with my diagnose, that I did not feel or feel any problem or limitation (can go up to max. 161 -162 bpm effort, see for comparison my best time/effort on Kanas Climb on normal road bike from Oct 6th (I tested the same segment on eRoad bike in the post on the top above to get an idea about necessary HR effort and motor support)).

 

[rafiqu]

Hello guys , any updates with speed limiter fix ?