No, no progress. I'm convinced the lockring sensor just determines whether the motor is switched on or not. The speed limiter must be based on information coming from the hub. I'm hoping a "fix" becomes available that would at least enable the limit to be changed to the US settings. 32kmh is closer to my cruising speed so it would be nice for my wife to get assist to that level. I do see that Colnago have brought out a model based on the same system, so that might encourage others to have a go at this.
Ebikemotion x35 speed limiter "fix"
- Thread starter Karl
- Start date
Steve - I'd be interested in hearing what your setup weighs and what size frame you have. I have a large M20i and with pedals its almost 28lbs (27.80)! (The temporary pedals are old and a bit heavy, but certainly not 1lbs).
So overall the setup weighs more than expected.
I cant recall of the Mavic Cosmic Carbon Pro's are lighter or heavier than the Aksiums. - Ed
Jaxx
Well-Known Member
Ed, I also have M20, with Cosmic Carbon''s on. Have Time Xpress Titanium Pedals, Time Carbon Stem with Fizik Aliante Carbon Rail Saddle. Get it back Wednesday after first service. Will tell you what is weighs then?
Ps. I like this bike so much, am ordering Alloy Gain (takes a full mudguard) for next winter. Going to wait until 2020 models are released though?
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Per my prior comment, I'm back to comment on group rides... so far so good. Did a fast group ride this week... the *fast* portion was about 26 miles of rolling terrain on pretty good roads... I came in at 22.3mph so not bad... because as I've mentioned the Large Orbea with titanium SpeedPlay pedals weighs 27Lbs!!
100% power was too much and too noisy on hills, so am going to hopefully get the max heart rate setting in the app working... this will hopefully allow me to ride more slowly and quietly at the beginning of the ride when we're rolling out of town. I'm guessing that the power will kick in about half way up a climb if I make the HR threshold somewhere in the middle of my HR range.
Also not sure this particular group ride will be sustainable since they hit the bottom of hills often way over 20mph and I'm only hanging on to the fast portions because its early in the season and i'm still feeling pretty good. (My fatigue issue typically accumulates over the season).
Mike - Yeah still troubleshooting this one... I'm suddenly very interested in this feature because on group rides I've found the manual iWoc power setting impractical... an example would be the group goes charging up a hill then crests the hill and backs it off coming to a slow easy pace (this is how most of my group rides go). I'd have the power level at Level 3 (full power) going up the hill but would then have to press the iWoc button quickly to Off or Level 1 when cresting the hill (difficult to do and impractical). (Otherwise if power is left at Level 3 you cant spin easily and slowly because the bike takes off at almost 20mph!)
Having the HR Auto Assist would help IF IT WORKS!? I tested this yesterday with very mixed results. It seemed to work at times but was mostly highly unpredictable. I'm going to test indoors (using a fake GPS app to fool the ebikemotion app into seeing motion and actually recording something).
Observations thus far:
* I'm using a tried and tested BLE HR monitor but the ebm app (I'm on the current Android version) seems to hang and frequently doesnt show changes in HR
* The latest Android update screwed up MPH and now the app doesnt seem to show speed on the screen correctly
* The Override Max HR setting in the Settings menu seems to be the only place to enter a target HR but I dont believe this impacts Auto Assist... it just effects the HR circle display on the app screen.
* I have no idea what the sensitive adjustment does at this point. The app manual is somewhat clear on intent, but not on how it actually works.
* Sometimes Assist would not come on until the target HR had been exceeded, but other times it continued after my HR fell well below the target (this might have something to do with the sensitivity setting which seems to be designed to keep you within a range around the target HR. I just dont know of 0 sensitivity or full sensitivity turns this off). For the ride, sensitivity was set at 5 out of 10.
* Also dont attempt to save a file when you dont have a good data connection... the save will fail and the app may crash... there seems to be NO local cache of the data!
I'm thinking that tweaking the custom Power Map for Levels 1-3 may also help achieve the auto assist we want.
While I understand what they are trying to do with HR its not really the best approach due to the variability in HR (due to temperature, fatigue, etc.) What I ideally want is assistance over a certain power output level. But since that would be hard to implement, a Cadence/Speed/Slope solution would seem more practical. The bike sensors already measure cadence and speed. And Slope is available from GPS position and/or the phone tilt sensors (some calibration before each ride might be needed for this). In other words... I only want assistance if I'm going faster than say 16mph OR am on a slope greater than 1.5% etc. This could be a custom curve for each rider.
I hope to report back when I have more data on the use of Auto Assist
Jaxx
Well-Known Member
I was under the impression, further output curves would be appearing in the future. Appreciate the effort you are putting in Ed. My one issue is? The curve seems to have a sweet spot around 75/80rpm (at least on my UK version) Now I'm not a big gear masher, however my average cadence is 65rpm. So climbing means if I want max assist? It's a case of sitting in the saddle and spinning, after decades of riding, that's not something I'm comfortable with. Not to detract too much, I love the bike, find it very comfortable and hardly notice the weight difference over my sub 14 pound Storck.
Yes - I've noticed the same... It will assist when out of the saddle, but not much since it wants to see steady cadence. I almost have the opposite problem in that if I'm spinning over 85 rpm up a steep hill... I wont see 100% power... more like 75-90%,
Jaxx
Well-Known Member
So, it would appear the ring magnets are sending cadence figures to the motor (no torque involved at all? And it probably has a higher and lower tolerance to work within?
[QUOTE="Ed B, post: 193464, member: 21043"Having the HR Auto Assist would help IF IT WORKS!? I tested this yesterday (outside) with very mixed results. It seemed to work at times but was mostly highly unpredictable. I'm going to test indoors [/QUOTE]
So Plan B will be to email the company. I rode earlier today indoors and have to admit I cant figure out what the Auto Assist is doing or is looking at as far as a trigger goes.
I tried with Sensitivity at 10 and at 0 but results were highly unpredictable which is disappointing. I'm not going to go as far as saying it completely doesn't work at this point, but for what I want, it doesn't seem to work very well. (Using the Android App). And, indoors the HR on the app screen seemed responsive and accurate.
What I can recommend is:
* Leave "Override recommended MHR" on and set a HR Threshold at a level you want to start getting assistance.
* Set Sensitivity to 10 - this is max sensitivity which I interpret to mean Full On above the threshold and Full Off below it... although that's not what I experienced. (But Level 0 was worse)
* Do not press the iWoc button, and level it on Level 0 (White Light)
* Toggling Auto Assist off and on again in the app seemed to reset this if a parameter changed.
* ALSO WHAT THE HECK the ebikemotion web site no longer shows detailed heart rate or power?? Power consumption was in the Strava Compatible GPX export (sorta a TCX) but Heart Rate which was definitely recorded is NOT exported???? Complete FAIL!
Per the screenshots below I did start to get some assistance above the threshold (some of the time but NOT ALWAYS). However... assistance was slow to turn off well below the HR Threshold most of the time AND a HR way above the threshold failed to produce Level 3 full assistance... so does it work?? I cant say that it really does.
Things start well, HR Threshold is set at 125 and HR is 122... assistance is 0%
Then my HR went up to 142 and assistance in the instant of the screen shot was 15% (note these images are not necessarily in order and ignore the trip miles... seems to be an affect of the fake GPS tool)
But when my HR fell back to 121 (and lower) the assistance continued (and is even higher here than it was when my HR was higher)... I tried testing whether assistance continued for a set amount of time after the HR fell below threshold but couldn't see a pattern. (Note in vertical orientation the app font now truncates the speed to 1 digit (this happened after a recent update)).
And when I got my HR really high, the assistance level was still Level 1... I should have been getting Full Power here.
So Plan B will be to email the company. I rode earlier today indoors and have to admit I cant figure out what the Auto Assist is doing or is looking at as far as a trigger goes.
I tried with Sensitivity at 10 and at 0 but results were highly unpredictable which is disappointing. I'm not going to go as far as saying it completely doesn't work at this point, but for what I want, it doesn't seem to work very well. (Using the Android App). And, indoors the HR on the app screen seemed responsive and accurate.
What I can recommend is:
* Leave "Override recommended MHR" on and set a HR Threshold at a level you want to start getting assistance.
* Set Sensitivity to 10 - this is max sensitivity which I interpret to mean Full On above the threshold and Full Off below it... although that's not what I experienced. (But Level 0 was worse)
* Do not press the iWoc button, and level it on Level 0 (White Light)
* Toggling Auto Assist off and on again in the app seemed to reset this if a parameter changed.
* ALSO WHAT THE HECK the ebikemotion web site no longer shows detailed heart rate or power?? Power consumption was in the Strava Compatible GPX export (sorta a TCX) but Heart Rate which was definitely recorded is NOT exported???? Complete FAIL!
Per the screenshots below I did start to get some assistance above the threshold (some of the time but NOT ALWAYS). However... assistance was slow to turn off well below the HR Threshold most of the time AND a HR way above the threshold failed to produce Level 3 full assistance... so does it work?? I cant say that it really does.
Things start well, HR Threshold is set at 125 and HR is 122... assistance is 0%
Then my HR went up to 142 and assistance in the instant of the screen shot was 15% (note these images are not necessarily in order and ignore the trip miles... seems to be an affect of the fake GPS tool)
But when my HR fell back to 121 (and lower) the assistance continued (and is even higher here than it was when my HR was higher)... I tried testing whether assistance continued for a set amount of time after the HR fell below threshold but couldn't see a pattern. (Note in vertical orientation the app font now truncates the speed to 1 digit (this happened after a recent update)).
And when I got my HR really high, the assistance level was still Level 1... I should have been getting Full Power here.
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Yes it seems that cadence is the primary factor, but torque may be an input as well (in a negative way) in that I've observed the power % on the screen decreases when cadence drops slightly and the torque load increases.
I've posted a few times about my 75lb steel cruiser bike which has a 500W 70NM Bafang motor. The power to weight ratio and torque to weight ratio on the Orbea is much better yet the cruiser is substantially faster up a hill. I have yet to really figure out why. (The cruiser is hacked to do a maximum 28 mph). But a torque sensor that protects the motor and doesn't deliver a full 40NM could be part of an explanation.
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Franconvillois
New Member
Dear
any news for a solution to break the speed limiter ....thanks
any news for a solution to break the speed limiter ....thanks
Jaxx
Well-Known Member
You can adjust each output level independently. For example have eco (level 1) set at 75% it rather depends on how much assist you want or need?
Hi
Thanks for reply. I presume each level has their individual limit. IE 100% eco is not same as 100% on level 3
Jaxx
Well-Known Member
Yes, that's correct. A few rides over different terrain and and gear combinations will give you a good understanding of when, if and how much assist you may wish to use?
Thankyou
r1roman
Active Member
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Barcelona
it seems to me exaggerated eco 75%, my configuration is eco 57% level 2 65% level 3 80%, in case it serves as something
Ok so presume that gives less assistance but saves battery power?
Was this done via trial and error?
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