Ebike battery house fire in Australia

[JES2020]

Hi folks!
What about the use of a LiPo Battery bag like this in addition to safe location? The timer is also a good “Oh $#it” prevention layer!!!
-BB

Actually the timer is more than an Oh $#it option.
For example I know that if I have 42v in my 48 v 21a battery, after 8 hours of 2a charging, my battery has just reached full at 54.6v, so I can set the timer for 8 hours for full, or less if I want to under charge my battery.

 

[Daffyh]

Let me know if you ever make it to NY... I have a bridge I can sell you

I have one also.
Darlinghurst is filled with those old style terrace houses, yes i lived in Sydney and very familiar with it although a lot has changed since i was there. You can argue all day about who is right or wrong, the press always inflate stories as it sells amongst other things.None of us know more than what is pictured or in the written articles, be curious to see if an arson investigation occurs or the authorities concerned accept their initial conclusions with no further investigation.

 

[BarnBoy]

Actually the timer is more than an Oh $#it option.
For example I know that if I have 42v in my 48 v 21a battery, after 8 hours of 2a charging, my battery has just reached full at 54.6v, so I can set the timer for 8 hours for full, or less if I want to under charge my battery.

Thanks @JES2020, but my question is if people use a fire proof/resistant LiPo Battery charging bag like I showed? There are many available in all kinds of sizes. I use them for my drone batteries. Curious if using one is a good idea for an ebike battery along with all the other good advice hidden in this thread....
-BB

 

[tomjasz]

my question is if people use a fire proof/resistant LiPo Battery charging bag like I showed?

A completely unreliable solution. Use an Ammo Can for the best protection.

 

[karlray]

Since these batteries are so hard to find because of the electric car industry, more and more producers use fake and poor quality ones and this thing causes disasters.

 

[JES2020]

Thanks @JES2020, but my question is if people use a fire proof/resistant LiPo Battery charging bag like I showed? There are many available in all kinds of sizes. I use them for my drone batteries. Curious if using one is a good idea for an ebike battery along with all the other good advice hidden in this thread....
-BB

I don't use lipo batteries. But I believe they don't burn as often or as violently.
That bag you showed would get blown open and shoot flames all over with a lion battery set.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I don't use lipo batteries. But I believe they don't burn as often or as violently.
That bag you showed would get blown open and shoot flames all over with a lion battery set.

Lipo's can burn pretty violently.. But typically cell packs are on a much smaller scale

 

[JES2020]

Lipo's can burn pretty violently.. But typically cell packs are on a much smaller scale

"I found this comparison online:
lithium-ion batteries are inherently unstable, suffer from aging, and are potentially dangerous. If the barrier that separates the positive and negative electrode is ever breached, the chemical reaction can cause combustion (fire)."

 

[Gionnirocket]

"I found this comparison online:
lithium-ion batteries are inherently unstable, suffer from aging, and are potentially dangerous. If the barrier that separates the positive and negative electrode is ever breached, the chemical reaction can cause combustion (fire)."View attachment 82247
View attachment 82247

Lipo's are not as... But not to be taken lightly either.
Perhaps the difference between gasoline and propane.

Example of a shorted lipo

With a bit of explanation

 

[JES2020]

Lipo's are not as... But not to be taken lightly either.
Perhaps the difference between gasoline and propane.

Example of a shorted lipo

With a bit of explanation

Right , that was my point, "I believe they don't burn as often or as violently."
Even a lead acid battery can explode, but lions pack more power and are MORE unstable.

 

[Gionnirocket]

No worries... You stated that you have no experience with Lipo's... I was just trying to give you a LITTLE information.

 

[tomjasz]

Example of a shorted lipo

Unlike Lion, Lipo can flame out if discharged too low. 18650 are FAR less volatile.

 

[JES2020]

No worries... You stated that you have no experience with Lipo's... I was just trying to give you a LITTLE information.

No problem, You confirmed some of the knowledge I have about lipos.
There is no conflict here

 

[Asher]

Why do only hobbyists use lipos?

 

[McCorby]

Why do only hobbyists use lipos?

I’m guessing mainly cost. LiPo is more expensive to manufacture, so larger packs would be less cost effective. My understanding is they have a somewhat shorter life cycle as well. LiPo is lighter and can have a more compact form factor versus Li ion, which better suits RC applications.

I do believe laptops, phones and portable battery banks are using LiPo more now.

 

[tomjasz]

Why do only hobbyists use lipos?

Relatively cheap and lighter than 18650 cells.

I don't think lipo is used in phones and devices. All I've had were LiFePo4 the most stable of chemistries by most accounts..

 

[McCorby]

Relatively cheap and lighter than 18650 cells.

I don't think lipo is used in phones and devices. All I've had were LiFePo4 the most stable of chemistries by most accounts..

I’m pretty sure the Samsung Galaxy S20 and Note 20 use LiPo.

Everything I’ve read indicates LiPo batteries are more expensive to manufacture....

Li-Ion Vs Li-Po For Smartphones? What to choose and how to use them? – Whaddafudge

whaddafudge.com

RavPower uses both for their portable power banks.

Lithium Ion vs. Lithium Polymer Batteries – Which Is Better? - RAVPower

We go deep into the lithium-ion versus lithium-polymer debate and find out the benefits and drawbacks of each battery type! Which is better for you?

blog.ravpower.com

 

[harryS]

I always thought there is no difference in chemistry between RC Lipo packs and 18650 cells. Structurally one is a plastic pouch and the other is the metal can. Lipo is used in phones/cameras and will expand the plastic cases as the electolyte degrades. The plastic pouches tend to blow smoke before the electrolytes get too hot, When a can blows, it was at a far higher pressure and you're more likely to see flames rather than smoke.

Newer 18650 cells are supposed to have a vent. It releases gases and also breaks the connection from positive to negative.

Figure 1. The typical structure of the 18650 battery cap. If the vent...

Download scientific diagram | The typical structure of the 18650 battery cap. If the vent function works well during the thermal runaway process, the vent disk will break at the scoring and form a pathway to the internal gases. from publication: Li-Ion Battery Fire Hazards and Safety Strategies...

www.researchgate.net

 

[PedalUma]

Lipo is common in phones.
There's even a discussion on which one is better.

Lithium-ion vs lithium-polymer batteries: What's the difference?

Lithium-ion vs lithium-polymer batteries — what's the difference? Here's everything you need to know about these battery technologies.

www.androidauthority.com

Nite Rider uses Lipo

NiteRider Technical Lighting Systems High Powered LED Lights

30+ years ago NiteRider released the first high powered line of self-contained bike lights. With our custom reflectors, optics and circuitry; we’ve dialed-in the perfect combination that will give you added peace of mind to enjoy your ride, help efficiently navigate off-road terrain, and...

www.niterider.com

Also I believe Xiaomi uses Lipo

404 - Xiaomi Global

View Xiaomi errors/404. Check the latest errors/404 products from Xiaomi official site Mi.com .

www.mi.com

I am charging a battery now. When I charge this type of battery I can do so with the battery switched to the off position and it charges to 90% and stops charging. I can use them at 90% for most rides or if I am going on a big ride charge the last 10% just before the ride.

Bafangs do not have a secondary motor mount and newbies are often temped to route power between the motor and the bottom bracket. And they do not know how to fully secure a BBSXX. When the motor then shifts position forward it crimps these power wires at the bottom bracket. I am not saying this was the cause of this particular fire. But shorting the power supply is not a good thing. Does the motor look like it shifted toward the downtube?

 

[Gionnirocket]

I also believe Lipo because of the pouch configuration can be more easily fit into different shapes which works well in smaller devices