Difference between adventure and touring cycling?

[PDoz]

When I was buying my first e-bike in August 2019, no-one around heard of e-bikes. It looks you people have no clue what the "modern gravel cycling" means. Make a poll somewhere on FB and ask what people think of e-bikes. (In case you do not know it yet, e-bikes are hated by many).

I have the full right not to react or answer to any posts, especially unrelated to cycling.
(It is "careful"; English is only my second language...)

Ebikes hated?

 

[None]

As a teen in the 80's, I pedaled across the NA Continent from Seattle, WA to Ocean City, MD on a Huffy 10-speed packed with 30-40 lb. of camping gear.
To me, just about any bike can do touring; whether you can tour comfortably or efficiently is prioritized differently for each rider.
If there is trails involved during my touring, I ride slower.
If there is more pavement, I get to ride faster.
As long as I enjoy the saddle time, I can keep going.
These days, I just prefer recumbents for long hours in the saddle.

 

[Prairie Dog]

When I was buying my first e-bike in August 2019, no-one around heard of e-bikes. It looks you people have no clue what the "modern gravel cycling" means. Make a poll somewhere on FB and ask what people think of e-bikes. (In case you do not know it yet, e-bikes are hated by many).

I’m not out to knock gravel riders per se, in fact, my hats off to anyone who is able and willing to head out on two wheels and enjoy themselves. It’s your opinion that gravel bikers experience more ‘adventure’ than any others be it roadies, hard core mtbers, touring fanatics, etc…and that’s where I believe you are encountering some resistance. I’ve never put my riding choice above others in terms of which is most bold or audacious but it remains to be seen if anyone can convince you otherwise. There’s no doubt that gravel biking is gaining popularity mainly among the younger set and I’m certain that it will continue to thrive. Your past experience with mtbs, road bikes was cut short due mainly to physical factors, body position, medical conditions….but you seemed to have found your niche and that’s all good. Keeping an open mind about all riding disciplines is something we need to be reminded of regardless of whether or not we excel at one particular style or form.

As for e-bike haters, there will always be those who are not convinced that these machines are still able to provide a vigorous workout and perhaps have not ridden one before. I witness it from both viewpoints as I continue to ride my analog daily and have even been passed by powered riders on several occasions. I say all the power to them.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I’m not out to knock gravel riders per se, in fact, my hats off to anyone who is able and willing to head out on two wheels and enjoy themselves. It’s your opinion that gravel bikers experience more ‘adventure’ than any others be it roadies, hard core mtbers, touring fanatics, etc…and that’s where I believe you are encountering some resistance. I’ve never put my riding choice above others in terms of which is most bold or audacious and starting a poll as to how others feel about gravel isn’t going to prove anything. There’s no doubt that gravel biking is gaining popularity mainly among the younger set and I’m certain that it will continue to thrive. Your experience with mtbs, road bikes was cut short due mainly to physical factors, ride position, medical conditions….but you seemed to have found your niche and that’s all good. Keeping an open mind about all riding disciplines is something we all need to be reminded of regardless of whether or not we excel at one particular style.

As for e-bike haters, there will always be those who are not convinced that these machines are still able to provide a vigorous workout and perhaps have not ridden one before. I witness it from both viewpoints as I continue to ride my analog daily and have even been passed by powered riders on several occasions. I say all the power to them.

Very diplomatic. Bottom line for me: As long as I ride responsibly and courteously, it's nobody's business what, how, or why I ride. If they look down on any of that, it's a character flaw on their part.

 

[Roamers]

Been kinda following this, little confused. Has it been suggested that if you don't travel in larger groups with a kinda specific bike form, you can't be a "graveler"?

Is that a Poland thing? Or worldwide?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

A good leader has already scouted the route, typically riding together with a partner or close buddies. If you ride for 24,000 km a year you have the knowledge of trails.

This works great if conditions are fairly static. But the longer and more complex the route, the less likely that is to be the case. This year I have encountered road closures due to rockslides, flash floods, windstorms putting multiple (like more than 50) trees down across the road, and a structurally compromised bridge. Most of those events happened with very little warning (like the ride was fine one day and hopelessly impassable the next). Also, roads are routinely closed due to logging operations and construction, again often with very little advance warning.

S*it happens. Those are people of endurance. As they use to say "No boredom!"

This was in response to my question about weather changes. That's fine. To expand my question more precisely: "What is the process used to decide when to cancel a trip or change plans due to weather, and how is that communicated to participants? Is the process different during a ride than before a ride?"

If this is an injury, everything is done to call the medical assistance. What would you do if you got an injury while being alone? Here, you are not alone.

Again that sounds good. My experience in large group outdoor activities that it is often unclear who is responsible for handling such situations. If you are alone it is extremely clear who is responsible.

I'm coming at this from a background in rescuing people who get all messed up in the wilderness. Whatever advantages you gain from being in a larger group, I've seen over and over again that communications breakdowns, poor delegation of responsibility, and needlessly complex decision making processes can have results which vary from miserable to tragic. None of those problems are even possible with a small group.

A lot of those communications and organizational problems are made exponentially worse if the people involved do not know each other or do not know each other very well. Again, having that close knowledge becomes much more difficult in larger groups.

Again, my $0.02. I am not very interested in any outdoor activity that involves more than three other people traveling with me. Beyond that it stops being fun. My ideal cycling partners would be an ER doctor (or nurse) and a pro bike mechanic.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

This works great if conditions are fairly static. But the longer and more complex the route, the less likely that is to be the case. This year I have encountered road closures due to rockslides, flash floods, windstorms putting multiple (like more than 50) trees down across the road, and a structurally compromised bridge. Most of those events happened with very little warning (like the ride was fine one day and hopelessly impassable the next). Also, roads are routinely closed due to logging operations and construction, again often with very little advance warning.

It is unlikely on a 180 km route, at least where I live. The only difference in the condition of the example route between June and July was some trails previously packed turned into the sand...

To expand my question more precisely: "What is the process used to decide when to cancel a trip or change plans due to weather, and how is that communicated to participants? Is the process different during a ride than before a ride?"

In case of sudden change of the weather a day prior the ride, the ride is cancelled. If, for instance, a thunderstorm breaks just before the ride, the participants go to the pub instead. If the break in the weather happens on the ride, there is no other way but continue the ride. I was met by such a situation on one of the group rides. Unfortunately, I had no dry clothes change with me; I had to suffer. Fortunately, there was a bonfire ready at a recreation are that was the start/finish of the group ride.

Again that sounds good. My experience in large group outdoor activities that it is often unclear who is responsible for handling such situations. If you are alone it is extremely clear who is responsible.

I'm coming at this from a background in rescuing people who get all messed up in the wilderness. Whatever advantages you gain from being in a larger group, I've seen over and over again that communications breakdowns, poor delegation of responsibility, and needlessly complex decision making processes can have results which vary from miserable to tragic. None of those problems are even possible with a small group.

Well, I am not that hardcore as most of my gravel cycling friends. They have been in various places for their rides, not only in Poland but also Spain and elsewhere. Still, Europe is not the United States or Canada or Australia. Although some places such as Wales are more wild - it is the MTB domain though.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Or worldwide?

Worldwide. Invented by Americans. Google "Gravel Unbound". It is the model of the modern gravel cycling.
Before people can participate in ultramarathons, they need to practice, hence group gravel rides.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It’s your opinion that gravel bikers experience more ‘adventure’ than any others be it roadies, hard core mtbers, touring fanatics, etc…and that’s where I believe you are encountering some resistance.

Not. The name "adventure cycling" is the synonim of "gravel cycling". I did not invent that and refuse any pointless talk about it.

 

[JenniferA]

Its “Unbound Gravel,” and may be the model for gravel racing but certainly not for all gravel cycling. I expect that the majority of gravel cyclists don’t even race, and therefore have no use for large group gravel rides.

 

[PDoz]

Not. The name "adventure cycling" is the synonim of "gravel cycling". I did not invent that and refuse any pointless talk about it.

YOU are fixed in this interpretation. I'm struggling to understand if it's a language barrier or personal.

Can you at least ask on the next bum sniffing outing if the rest of your clique feel that adventure cycling is only possible on gravel bikes in large groups as single day events with whatever other structure you need to , effectively, REDUCE the adventure

 

[PDoz]

As for e-bike haters, there will always be those who are not convinced that these machines are still able to provide a vigorous workout and perhaps have not ridden one before. I witness it from both viewpoints as I continue to ride my analog daily and have even been passed by powered riders on several occasions. I say all the power to them.

There's not many e haters left around here!

We've been relatively lucky, with most disciplines of cycling enjoying participation by older ( and respected) members who found ebikes extended their ability to ride. The road tourers had an ex national champion turn up on his ebike, some of the younger international mtb riders started using emtb to train, and then there was an adventure cyclist https://rideonmagazine.com.au/ebiking-the-outback/

On a recent ride with 2 adventure riders who had returned from the Himalayas, the fittest took a ride on my levo sl and was impressed enough to be buying one for his wife ( who can outpace most cyclists , but just needs a little help keeping up with him)

ALL our local bike shops sell ebikes, most of the owners have them amongst their personal fleets.

It's been a slow change, about 6 years from my observation, but I can't remember the last time I heard " cheetah " or had some silly enough to suggest I shouldn't be sharing the trail. This might be because our trails are relatively sparsely populated , or perhaps because I'm riding with an athletic 6'5" 14 yo that you'd be brave to antagonise ....

 

[Gionnirocket]

When I was buying my first e-bike in August 2019, no-one around heard of e-bikes. It looks you people have no clue what the "modern gravel cycling" means. Make a poll somewhere on FB and ask what people think of e-bikes. (In case you do not know it yet, e-bikes are hated by many).

I have the full right not to react or answer to any posts, especially unrelated to cycling.
(It is "careful"; English is only my second language...)

I say make a poll on EBR to see what people think and I'd bet it's the euro d_bag that's hated by many.
In case you don't know it yet

 

[Prairie Dog]

There's not many e haters left around here!

We've been relatively lucky, with most disciplines of cycling enjoying participation by older ( and respected) members who found ebikes extended their ability to ride.
ALL our local bike shops sell ebikes, most of the owners have them amongst their personal fleets.

It's been a slow change, about 6 years from my observation, but I can't remember the last time I heard " cheetah " or had some silly enough to suggest I shouldn't be sharing the trail. This might be because our trails are relatively sparsely populated , or perhaps because I'm riding with an athletic 6'5" 14 yo that you'd be brave to antagonise ....

Ditto in regards to your comments. I’ve only heard the ‘cheetah’ comment once in the past year and it wasn’t directed at me but at a younger couple who I came across at one of the local trail heads and who told me of their run in with a couple of analog riders. He was riding a Norco Sight and she a Santa Cruz.

Many of those who turn their noses up are generally misinformed and may see ebikes as a threat to their fragile egos. I recall one incident two years ago where I encountered a man riding his FS analog mtb along the Goat Creek Trail in Banff National Park close to the town center. I wasn’t aware at the time that ebikes were not permitted and assumed it only applied to back country trails. Half way into the ride, I passed him on one of the climbs and waited up at the top for a family member. As he approached me, he made comment that, "I shouldn’t be riding on a non-designated ebike trail and that people of our fitness level don’t require ebikes". The ‘cheatah’ response was never uttered but I knew from his posturing and belligerence that there was no doubt it was weighing heavily on his mind. I questioned his thoughts on the matter and he couldn’t provide a legitimate reason for the policy other than I submit an inquiry to Parks Canada. I said, ‘Fine’ and we both parted ways until I caught up and passed him once again. I purposely rode slow to avoid another confrontation but he wasn’t making much progress as he chugged slowly along. Once again, he made the same remark and I responded in the same manner. I believe that he was more upset being passed twice by someone likely close to his age on a powered bike and decided to bring up the issue of restriction as a deflection tactic.

Since then, ebikes are now viewed as a viable and a permissible option in national/provincial parks in Alberta and Parks Canada has even rescinded a policy change allowing ebikes on several backcountry as well as some technical trails much to the chagrin of a couple of environmental groups who continue to lobby the feds with their pleas of greater crowding, more user conflicts and danger to wildlife. One of the reasons for the relaxation is the surge in tourism that has arisen as a result of their popularity particularly from businesses that have found it lucrative to provide ebike tours. Naturally, the mountain bike groups were ecstatic upon hearing the news. One vocal guide operator remarked by saying ‘Some avid cyclists may find it challenging to continue cycling as they age, so e-bikes provide a great alternative’.

The road tourers had an ex national champion turn up on his ebike, some of the younger international mtb riders started using emtb to train, and then there was an adventure cyclist https://rideonmagazine.com.au/ebiking-the-outback/

Incredible! Ebiking the Outback while towing a solar rigged trampoline frame is definitely thinking outside of the box. Hard to imagine pulling that over the dunes over and over again. Not only would that be taxing on the body, but think of the mental anguish of having to look out beyond and see the same for miles on end.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Can you at least ask on the next bum sniffing outing if the rest of your clique feel that adventure cycling is only possible on gravel bikes in large groups as single day events with whatever other structure you need to , effectively, REDUCE the adventure

"Adventure cycling" is just a name. It does not define how much % adventure is in "adventure cycling"...

I could draw an analogy to "road cycling". First of all, a quarrelsome person could say any bike is capable to ride roads so why should one need a "road bike"? Then, majority of people who own a "road bike" or "race bike" neither ride in the peloton nor do race. "Road cycling" is just a name. Now, most of road bike riders practice alone. It is smart to ride road bikes with a buddy (or wife) to learn techniques such as drafting, motivate each other, and relieve boredom. The next step is joining a road cycling club and start riding in the peloton. However, most of roadies will never take part in a road race.

Gravel/adventure cycling is similar to road cycling only you do not think of the performance but of having a good time, your riding partner/group is for your security and fun, and eventually the dream of any gravel cyclist is to complete an ultra (a gravel grinder race). As I said, you even do not think about racing in a gravel ultra but you want to complete the race. Which is perfectly doable as the condition to complete the gravel grinder is just to meet the time criterion.
------
Regarding e-bikes and "cheating". Even with a growing e-bike awareness (e-bike haters cannot close their eyes and ignore the reality), the feeling of being superior (and jealous) still dominates the traditional cycling communities. Most of cyclists still think #itridesitselfebike (thank you, throttle!)

The community which embraced the e-bike first here is the MTB crowd. The more mountainous country it is, the more e-bikes are there (Czech Republic!)

 

[PDoz]

Incredible! Ebiking the Outback while towing a solar rigged trampoline frame is definitely thinking outside of the box. Hard to imagine pulling that over the dunes over and over again. Not only would that be taxing on the body, but think of the mental anguish of having to look out beyond and see the same for miles on end.

The canning is one of the few remaining extreme adventure routes left - both in Australia and arguably the world. It's a badge of honour earned by few - even 4x4 travel through there is an adventure. Tackling it on a bike is extreme, doing it on a budget home built contraption - lets just say the town of Orbost where he grew up produces some unique individuals. ( it's about an hours drive from where I live - also where we got our donkey from....)

At the risk of boring someone, I had been planning a combined canning and connie sue motorbike trip when reality caught up with my ambitions. It rained the week before we were due to leave, and IF we had been out there during rain it would have meant MONTHS stranded. Both routes are over 1000 km of essentially two wheel ruts across dunes - outside of the fuel range of air retrieval ( even the army choppers can't manage that) The logistics of doing trips like that via motorbike are challenging, I can't imagine doing it on a pushbike! My motorbike at the time was a ktm 640 adventure -30 litre tank, a 15 litre custom built side tank and a 20 l fuel bladder on the back . Even that leaves a narrow margin for error. Add water, light camping gear, food etc - riding sand becomes a challenge! ( I've done a LOT of dessert / outback riding over the past 30+ years , although the other two riders on that trip have a decade more experience than me)

 

[EMGX]

Adventure is what you find it to be. Your individual definition, not someone else's.

Note to PDoz, 1st picture is couple of us were on north America equivalents of postie bikes, CT110s

 

[None]

Nearly 25 years on motorcycles, these are the ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) bikes that I keep in my garage these days.

Done many trips on my Chinese Cub 125cc Lifan engine.
Doesn't matter how hard I abuse that engine, still runs in extreme conditions.

My 2004 Ninja 250 cost me $450 to purchase, clean-out the carbs, change oil/filters and it runs like a top.

250 Sherpa had carried my bicycle.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

It's strange, many of the companies producing the equipment for Adventurous cycling are US based -

Some shameless plugs on cottage industry bike gear that looks cool:

10 Cottage Makers of Bike Bags & Bikepacking Gear to Check Out!

One of the best things about bikes is their ability to carry cargo using racks, packs, straps, baskets and bags. In this day and age, we’re lucky to have access to everything from lightweight bikepacking accessory bags to sturdy panniers for cross-country travel — made by some of the best...

www.garagegrowngear.com

10 Amazing Canadian Cottage Bike Bag Makers

The demand for hard-wearing, good-looking, and super functional bike bags has never been greater. Luckily, these 10 Canadian cottage brands are heeding the call with their innovative creations for pedal powdered pursuits. Below is a list of superb, small-scale bike bag makers north of the 49th...

www.garagegrowngear.com

And Garage Grown Gear is a remarkable place, with a lot of outside-the-box ultralight backpacking goodies, though sometimes some stuff suitable for bicycle travel shows up too.

 

[PDoz]

Nearly 25 years on motorcycles, these are the ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) bikes that I keep in my garage these days.

Done many trips on my Chinese Cub 125cc Lifan engine.
Doesn't matter how hard I abuse that engine, still runs in extreme conditions.


My 2004 Ninja 250 cost me $450 to purchase, clean-out the carbs, change oil/filters and it runs like a top.


250 Sherpa had carried my bicycle.

Is that a pre 68 cub? We never got them in Aus, but we did get the ct90 trail - dual range gearbox. The ones with leading link front ends are becoming collectable.

There used to be an event where a 90 was compulsory - none of these new fangled 110's.... They would head into the Wonnangatta Valley along a semi adventurous 4x4 route, camp overnight then some how overcome the hangover enough to ride back out. Did I mention the 32 creek crossings and tradition of 1 can of beer at each?