Difference between adventure and touring cycling?

[Saratoga Dave]

Gravel racing? Group sport. Gravel riding? Of course not, that‘s absurd. 99.9% of my riding is by myself, on all kinds of terrain, including a lot of gravel riding, which I very much enjoy, and don’t need anyone along with me to make sure I fit some stupid protocol.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Gravel racing? Group sport. Gravel riding? Of course not, that‘s absurd. 99.9% of my riding is by myself, on all kinds of terrain, including a lot of gravel riding, which I very much enjoy, and don’t need anyone along with me to make sure I fit some stupid protocol.

So true, I find that there are far fewer distractions when riding solo or with a partner. It allows you more time to enjoy the journey along the way and focus on the sights and sounds of one’s surroundings. Naturally, being prepared for repairs in the field comes with the territory.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Just my $0.02 here. My experience has been that the larger the group you are doing any activity with, the more planning, more organization, more thankless grunt work, and far less flexibility you have on that activity. So past a certain group size the activity ceases to be fun and ends up being unpaid work.

Smaller groups or single individuals have far more flexibility and can change their plans to match changing conditions much more rapidly.

Also, to me at least, some of my very best contemplation time happens when I am riding a bike, hiking, or cross-country skiing. I really, really don't need other people around to get in the way of that.

"Alone in the wilderness, one encounters the dangers of hard thinking." -- Han Shan (c. 800 AD)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Gravel racing? Group sport. Gravel riding? Of course not, that‘s absurd. 99.9% of my riding is by myself, on all kinds of terrain, including a lot of gravel riding, which I very much enjoy, and don’t need anyone along with me to make sure I fit some stupid protocol.

So true, I find that there are far fewer distractions when riding solo or with a partner. It allows you more time to enjoy the journey along the way and focus on the sights and sounds of one’s surroundings. Naturally, being prepared for repairs in the field comes with the territory.

Stay in your trenches, then.

My experience has been that the larger the group you are doing any activity with, the more planning, more organization, more thankless grunt work, and far less flexibility you have on that activity. So past a certain group size the activity ceases to be fun and ends up being unpaid work.

It is how it works here:
Unless it is a race, a leader (a person known to the community) creates an event on FB. The person gives the "set-up" description (date/time/place), provides a GPX file, informs on the trip difficulty, planned cruising and average speed as well of planned stops. There is always a remark: "You are joining on your full responsibility. We will not let you, however, alone. We do not allow riding helmetless".

Very, very big organizational effort indeed! The whole essence of gravel cycling is being self-sufficient but you are riding with friends, not competitors.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Stay in your trenches, then.

Actually, when one rides solo as I did on my last two trail rides in the Rockies, there’s no one around to assist you if something should go wrong. So, you could say that I’m out on the front line fighting the battle as opposed to hiding in the relative protection of the trenches. No cafes or convenience stores along the way either. It’s a small risk that I’m willing to take as I’m able to work out my own ride schedule and add some variety to my rides. Confidence in your own riding ability, fitness, mechanical knowledge of your machine and a dose of common sense go a long way in making or breaking a ride. There is a Calgary based FB group that I could ride with but most often their outings to the mountains are short on notice and I’m usually several hours drive out to the pre-arranged meetup points. I would seriously consider joining the group on winter fatbike rides as sound knowledge of the trail is crucial once the trodden singles are covered in deep snow.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

It is how it works here:
Unless it is a race, a leader (a person known to the community) creates an event on FB. The person gives the "set-up" description (date/time/place), provides a GPX file, informs on the trip difficulty, planned cruising and average speed as well of planned stops. There is always a remark: "You are joining on your full responsibility. We will not let you, however, alone. We do not allow riding helmetless".

Very, very big organizational effort indeed! The whole essence of gravel cycling is being self-sufficient but you are riding with friends, not competitors.

So what happens when the route doesn't go?
So what happens when the weather changes dramatically?
What happens to the trip if a cyclist suffers a major mechanical or an injury?
How well does this work with cyclists of widely differing ability levels and endurance?
How big are these groups, on average?

My own experience is that your ability to wing it and roll with changes to your plans dramatically dissipate when group size passes a certain threshold. Sometimes that threshold is as small as five people. On the other side of it, with two or three people you usually can figure out what to do (about almost anything) in about five minutes.

 

[Art Deco]

Stay in your trenches, then.


It is how it works here:
Unless it is a race, a leader (a person known to the community) creates an event on FB. The person gives the "set-up" description (date/time/place), provides a GPX file, informs on the trip difficulty, planned cruising and average speed as well of planned stops. There is always a remark: "You are joining on your full responsibility. We will not let you, however, alone. We do not allow riding helmetless".

Very, very big organizational effort indeed! The whole essence of gravel cycling is being self-sufficient but you are riding with friends, not competitors.

Here all the gravel grinders I've seen are boys .... probably a maximum of 19 or 20 years old, and if there are more than 3 in a group, it's always a full on race (with much yelling and multiple collisions usually), no matter whether they call it a race or a ride.
There is no difference.

As far as helmets go, less than half of the motorcycle riders wear them in the summertime, rarely do casual bycycle riders even own one, although the racers do.

 

[PDoz]

I've been trying to understand why I even care that " adventure" is being lost in translation.

Childhood trauma? At 12 yo , my neighbour and I decided it would be an fun to try travelling on our motorbikes instead of pushbikes. Unfortunately, we lived in suburbia so the Adventure began.

A phone call to the railway station " Are we allowed to take BIKES on the rural train to French Island" - tick, we had " permission" if anyone asked.... The unmanned train platform was only a 5 km walk away

Next challenge was the ferry - a similar phone call gave us "permission," , so after the train ride we arrived at the ferry. I suspect the master of that vessel enjoyed what followed - it was low tide, his boat was being loaded via a single plank from a much higher pier! At least when we arrived the pier had a low platform - but with VERY steep steps up . And sharks circling below. Imagine my horror as I rode to the top of those steps, lost balance as the front flipped over, and my faithful XL landed on the edge of a very long drop......

The following week was relatively uneventful. TOURING around an island with a population of 30 , mostly on GRAVEL roads, a bit of beach riding, camping in the FOREST , self sufficient and to be honest the only adversity was we hadn't brought any insect repellant ( no shops on the island)

Then the trauma - we arrived back in time for the return ferry and Mr Plod had taken the trip across..... our " bikes" had recreational registration , we had been exclusively on crown land, so the only law broken was the slight technicality that we were un licensed . Thankfully he was more interested in checking if we had guns!


That was the start of many adventures, and after 40 + years TOURING both solo and in groups, I identify as an ADVENTURE motorbike rider. I'll actively seek out adversity, and my annual once in a lifetime holiday list reads like the plot of a murder mystery. I've ticked most of the big box adveture rides in Australia - cape york, the kimberley, simpson dessert, victorian high country, coast to coast crossings and multiple loops of Tasmania - both dirt and road biased. Shipped the bike to New Zealand for 5 magical weeks with my wife , plus 2 weeks with a group . The obligatory helimed flight , numerous mechanical challenges . And LOTS of amazing friends along the way. I've organised and run multi day group rides into in accessible places on inappropriate bikes - including negotiating with super wife tobring the 4x4 and pick retrieve the German lass who mixed up ambition and ability ( a 4 hour solo 4x4 drive for my wife)

Great times, wonderfull memories, and nothing at allto do with cycling. So why do I care if Stephan thinks riding in a line along a gravel road sniffing butts is the definition of adventure?

 

[PDoz]

Or perhaps it's more recent?

When my daughter was 12 yo we headed off for her first epic ride - a 3/4 day cycling holiday, one day involving the Mt Buller epic https://www.victoriashighcountry.co...alpine-epic-mountain-bike-trail-mount-buller/. Stefan, you will be pleased to hear it was a group ride - just over 100 emtb's. The ride itself was fun, but being organized by someone else the only real adventure for me was assisting the the retrieval of an injured cyclist ( and then a particularly high speed finale trying to keep up with the tour guide as we caught the rest of the group...)

The real joy was the ride home - it involved carting our bikes from Mt Buller to Maffra - 200 km of gravel , zero chance of meeting anyone else. My 12 yo daughter decided to ride. Have you ever driven a 4x4 down a gravel trail whilst trying to keep up with a 12 yo on dads emtb ? Her speedo said she peaked at 75 kph....THAT was an adventure, even if it was just on gravel

 

[PDoz]

What happens to the trip if a cyclist suffers a major mechanical or an injury?

This is part of my aversion to large group rides with relative strangers.

In my 20's I was on a motorbike ride with AMTRA , essentially 30 + riders with a " group leader" who had set the route. I kicked a rock at 80 K's , and knew enough to realise that knee was history ( fractured tibial plateau , collateral and cruciate ligaments were toast) . The group left me to my own devices!! It was a challenging ride out in the rain with a broken leg - unable to bend that knee full of blood so standing on the other leg inpain, then loading my bike and driving a manual car to the nearest hospital.....lets say I've been selective re who I ride with since!

. On the other side of it, with two or three people you usually can out what to do (about almost anything) in about five minutes.

Absolutely - my trusted group for adventurous travel have earned my loyalty . They are resourceful and dependable. Most of my cycling friends come from my motorbike adventure circle. We've dragged the group out of greasy gullies, fixed or retrieved mechanical mishaps, dealt with medical issues both as a group and via remote rescue services ( a few of them are part of the remote rescue teams ) . Great people.

 

[Prairie Dog]

The same FB group (Shred Collective) that I referred to is planning on riding the same trail tomorrow that I took on last month at west Bragg Creek. Looks like a baker’s dozen have signed up so far including two coaches which should please Stefan.

Notes: This Saturday, the group ride is heading out for the rough and rowdy K Country classic "Powderface Ridge". Expect leg-melting climbs to reach the summit which will be rewarded with views that go on for miles! The downhill from the summit is rough with lots of rocks and roots to keep you entertained as you smash your way to the bottom! We will be meeting in the Little Elbow parking lot (not on the main highway) as shown in the attached map. Come join us for a 10am departure and we'll head off on our next adventure! Make sure to bring lots of water and snacks to keep you going all the way around.

 

[Art Deco]

The same FB group (Shred Collective) that I referred to is planning on riding the same trail tomorrow that I took on last month at west Bragg Creek. Looks like a baker’s dozen have signed up so far including two coaches which should please Stefan.

Notes: This Saturday, the group ride is heading out for the rough and rowdy K Country classic "Powderface Ridge". Expect leg-melting climbs to reach the summit which will be rewarded with views that go on for miles! The downhill from the summit is rough with lots of rocks and roots to keep you entertained as you smash your way to the bottom! We will be meeting in the Little Elbow parking lot (not on the main highway) as shown in the attached map. Come join us for a 10am departure and we'll head off on our next adventure! Make sure to bring lots of water and snacks to keep you going all the way around.

View attachment 158698
View attachment 158697

Just reading their ad copy, "leg melting, smash your way down, bring your own water" (b/c we won't give or sell you any), etc.. I think you are probably better off alone.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Perhaps not quite as adventurous to some but nevertheless requires a bit of effort to reach will be our ride this Sunday. The Highwood Pass is the highest paved road in the country. Some sections of the highway were not in the best shape last year and one needs to keep a sharp eye out for potholes when zooming down at over 70 kph.

 

[Art Deco]

Perhaps not quite as adventurous to some but nevertheless requires a bit of effort to reach will be our ride this Sunday. The Highwood Pass is the highest paved road in the country. Some sections of the highway were not in the best shape last year and one needs to keep a sharp eye out for potholes when zooming down at over 70 kph.

View attachment 158700
View attachment 158701

Even that rough looking road has a bit of shoulder and a white line ... we only get those on highways, not back roads. The cities do usually have a bike lane ... often parked full of delivery trucks ...

 

[BlackHand]

I always assumed adventure cycling was more or less a marketing term aimed at the 99.9% of cyclists who don't have the time, money, drive, and skills necessary to go on serious biking adventures.

Never really occurred to me to equate gravel rides with adventure cycling though I suppose a gravel ride COULD be an adventure. Speaking of which, we're going camping soon and I looked on Strava to see what gravel rides it would suggest in the area. This was one of the rides that Strava came up with-

I think Strava needs to work on their algorithm just a little bit for gravel rides. For those not familiar, no you can't summit Mt Rainier on a bike.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So what happens when the route doesn't go?

A good leader has already scouted the route, typically riding together with a partner or close buddies. If you ride for 24,000 km a year you have the knowledge of trails.

So what happens when the weather changes dramatically?

S*it happens. Those are people of endurance. As they use to say "No boredom!"

What happens to the trip if a cyclist suffers a major mechanical or an injury?

If this is an injury, everything is done to call the medical assistance. What would you do if you got an injury while being alone? Here, you are not alone.

If this is a major mechanical issue, there is always a good soul to assist the wretch to the next village, where the unfortunate person will ask for transport to civilization.

How well does this work with cyclists of widely differing ability levels and endurance?

If the group ride is not announced as requiring performance skill (in which case the weak rider will be left alone), the group is naturally (or in advance) split into several sub-groups. Different groups meet at predefined points. The magic of the gravel riding is the slow group might ride up to the finish line first as the fast group might experience issues such as flats or mechanical problems with some bikes. Performance riders often serve as "liason officers", riding between sub-groups and offering their help shall a defect occur.

How big are these groups, on average?

Ten to sixty riders. The latest 180 km "set-up" on the hottest day of the year attracted 25 riders of both sexes, and all of them completed the ride.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Actually, when one rides solo as I did on my last two trail rides in the Rockies, there’s no one around to assist you if something should go wrong. So, you could say that I’m out on the front line fighting the battle as opposed to hiding in the relative protection of the trenches.

A bit of... irresponsible? Don't you have a wife to take care of? Why shall "adventure" be identified with "taking risk" or "suffering"?
For me, every day of my life is an adventure. We probably understand the word totally differently.

As far as helmets go, less than half of the motorcycle riders wear them in the summertime

In the United States. In Europe, ride a motorbike helmetless, and the first cop will stop you.

I identify as an ADVENTURE motorbike rider.

I'm a little bored with your motorcycle stories I got the first full size bicycle when I was 10, and the first thing which I started exploring was the urban jungle of Warsaw (We lived in a rural neighbourhood of Warsaw at that time). Had a moped for a while but it didn't catch with me. Bicycles have always been with me until the age of 36. I returned to cycling at age of 52.

Me exploring the Ruhrgebiet, Germany, age 29 (1990). I was riding a perfectly maintained German 1952 bicycle, the treasure of the family who lent the bike to me.


When I said PDoz and Art "stay in your trenches" I meant we are unable to convince one another, so any further discussion would be pointless.

 

[Prairie Dog]

A bit of... irresponsible? Don't you have a wife to take care of? Why shall "adventure" be identified with "taking risk" or "suffering"?
For me, every day of my life is an adventure. We probably understand the word totally differently.

There’s risk in any outdoor endeavour, Stefan. Adventure in life isn’t without a bit of adversity otherwise we wouldn’t do what we do. If I do ride solo, I leave full disclosure with my wife as to where I am going and approx what time I will start and finish. Did you not crash recently on one of your gravel rides and hit your head? Sounds like you put yourself at risk more often than you think. Who mentioned anything about suffering? My risk is greatly lessened for the very reasons that I mentioned in my previous post.

 

[PDoz]

I'm a little bored with your motorcycle stories I got the first full size bicycle when I was 10, and the first thing which I started exploring was the urban jungle of Warsaw (We lived in a rural neighbourhood of Warsaw at that time). Had a moped for a while but it didn't catch with me. Bicycles have always been with me until the age of 36. I returned to cycling at age of 52.



When I said PDoz and Art "stay in your trenches" I meant we are unable to convince one another, so any further discussion would be pointless.

No one is forcing you to read them, but if you want to silence two members of this forum - be carefull who you choose. Last time I checked, there were only 2 people participating in this thread who MIGHT subscribe to your definition of Adventure, although the more restrictions you place, the smaller that number gets.

Bored? Shall we start a poll on how people feel about gravel?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Shall we start a poll on how people feel about gravel?

When I was buying my first e-bike in August 2019, no-one around heard of e-bikes. It looks you people have no clue what the "modern gravel cycling" means. Make a poll somewhere on FB and ask what people think of e-bikes. (In case you do not know it yet, e-bikes are hated by many).

No one is forcing you to read them, but if you want to silence two members of this forum - be carefull who you choose

I have the full right not to react or answer to any posts, especially unrelated to cycling.
(It is "careful"; English is only my second language...)