Carbon Wheel Build with Ebikemotion

[PedalUma]

Will Lighter Wheels Make You Faster When Cycling | Pedal Chile |

Lighter wheels speed up quicker so you can accelerate faster than heavier wheels. However, lighter wheels also de-accelerate faster so they don’t hold their momentum as well over rolling terrain or trail obstacles

pedalchile.com

This study is very interesting and clearly presented on Wheel Weight. So why are steel frames faster than carbon?

 

[StevenC56]

Will Lighter Wheels Make You Faster When Cycling | Pedal Chile |

Lighter wheels speed up quicker so you can accelerate faster than heavier wheels. However, lighter wheels also de-accelerate faster so they don’t hold their momentum as well over rolling terrain or trail obstacles

pedalchile.com

This study is very interesting and clearly presented on Wheel Weight. So why are steel frames faster than carbon?

Steel frames are faster than carbon? First I've heard that.

 

[PedalUma]

I know! Isn't that weird. This is why and it has little to do with statistics and engineering - Steel bikes are more comfortable so the rider feels more confident and is better able to deliver and sustain power for longer. There is a company in SF that makes them and they say people try Aluminum, then Carbon, then Full-Suspension and stay with Steel after riding it. I am converting a Titanium bike to electric next week. It is a Litepeed from TN.

 

[StevenC56]

I know! Isn't that weird. This is why and it has little to do with statistics and engineering - Steel bikes are more comfortable so the rider feels more confident and is better able to deliver and sustain power for longer. There is a company in SF that makes them and they say people try Aluminum, then Carbon, then Full-Suspension and stay with Steel after riding it. I am converting a Titanium bike to electric next week. It is a Litepeed from TN.

OK-You must be talking mountain bikes and not road bikes I suspect after the full suspension comment.

 

[StevenC56]

Sure wish there were more choices. It's either the Parcours or the Nox it appears. I was leaning towards the Parcours, but I'm concerned I will get stuck with duties and fees since they will be shipped from the UK. Anybody else have experience buying goods from Europe over $800 and shipped DHL?

 

[CampVica]

What length spokes did you use on the rear wheel build? Also, which Farsports rim and depth did you go with?

I let the wheel builder figure this one out, I didn't want to make a guess. So I'm not sure actually what's on there.

These are the specs:
FSD35CM-28T-SUD Farsports Feder series, 35mm deeep, 28mm external width, 21mm internal width.

• 24/32 holes, external nipples
• UD matte rim finish. No logo
• Without spoke holes in the rim bed
• Carbon Ti front hub, central lock, straight pull, axle size: 12*100mm 24 holes, black
• Spokes: Sapim cx-super black, 24 pieces.
• Nipples: Sapim sills alloy black.24+32 pieces
• Weight: 924g per set

 

[StevenC56]

I let the wheel builder figure this one out, I didn't want to make a guess. So I'm not sure actually what's on there.

These are the specs:
FSD35CM-28T-SUD Farsports Feder series, 35mm deeep, 28mm external width, 21mm internal width.

• 24/32 holes, external nipples
• UD matte rim finish. No logo
• Without spoke holes in the rim bed
• Carbon Ti front hub, central lock, straight pull, axle size: 12*100mm 24 holes, black
• Spokes: Sapim cx-super black, 24 pieces.
• Nipples: Sapim sills alloy black.24+32 pieces
• Weight: 924g per set

Did the wheel builder use the same Sapim CX spokes for the rear wheel build? Did they retain the factories 1X spoke lacing, or did they change to a 2X or 3X? Also, the option "without spoke holes in the rim bed"- What exactly does that mean? If there are no holes in the rim bed, how would you even install the spokes and nipples?

Edit: Just watched a video on how to lace a wheel without spoke holes. What a PITA! I'll bet the wheel builder charges a pretty big premium for this.

 

[CampVica]

Did the wheel builder use the same Sapim CX spokes for the rear wheel build? Did they retain the factories 1X spoke lacing, or did they change to a 2X or 3X? Also, the option "without spoke holes in the rim bed"- What exactly does that mean? If there are no holes in the rim bed, how would you even install the spokes and nipples?

Edit: Just watched a video on how to lace a wheel without spoke holes. What a PITA! I'll bet the wheel builder charges a pretty big premium for this.

We went with a different kind of spokes for the rear, something a bit sturdier that he recommended. It's still a 2 cross lacing, looks really good. If you go the no spoke holes route your'e up for a treat if you go tubeless, however as you mentioned it does require some extra fiddling. For me, I preinstalled all nipple via a park tool wire, took some time but went really easy actually using some bike building magic

 

[StevenC56]

We went with a different kind of spokes for the rear, something a bit sturdier that he recommended. It's still a 2 cross lacing, looks really good. If you go the no spoke holes route your'e up for a treat if you go tubeless, however as you mentioned it does require some extra fiddling. For me, I preinstalled all nipple via a park tool wire, took some time but went really easy actually using some bike building magic

So you went 2X on the rear instead of the factory 1X? Do you have any pictures of your front and rear wheels?

 

[StevenC56]

I'm getting close to going with the Farsports Feder's 21mm inside/28mm outside in 45mm depth. The Parcours are going to be enough $ that I'm afraid there might be import duties to pay. They can't tell me either way, but from what I've been reading anything with a value of $800+has the possibility of some pretty stiff fees. The Farsports are duty paid and under $800, so I think that the best bet for me.

 

[André_Orbea]

I'm getting close to going with the Farsports Feder's 21mm inside/28mm outside in 45mm depth. The Parcours are going to be enough $ that I'm afraid there might be import duties to pay. They can't tell me either way, but from what I've been reading anything with a value of $800+has the possibility of some pretty stiff fees. The Farsports are duty paid and under $800, so I think that the best bet for me.

Hi Steven
Calculate the import duty yourself at:

Import Duty Calculator

Calculate import duty and taxes in the web-based calculator. It's fast and free to try and covers over 100 destinations worldwide.

www.simplyduty.com

 

[StevenC56]

Hi Steven
Calculate the import duty yourself at:

Import Duty Calculator

Calculate import duty and taxes in the web-based calculator. It's fast and free to try and covers over 100 destinations worldwide.

www.simplyduty.com

Thanks for that. It shows no duties or fees leaving the UK. But I have read that anything with the declared value of $800+ can possible incur fees and taxes when it arrive here in the US.

 

[StevenC56]

I've gone back and forth on which wheels to order from Farsports, and decided on their Kaze 21mm internal 28mm external. Going to mix it up a bit an do 45mm deep front, and 58mm deep rear. No outer holes so I won't have to mess with rim tape. Farsport and a couple other Chinese/Taiwanese manufacturers actually make rims for several major companies. Parcours rims are made for them in either China or Taiwan. I've sent multiple emails to Nox asking them where their rims are made. They refuse to reply let alone answer my question. Parcours was at least good about responding to my emails and answering questions.

 

[StevenC56]

Here's some information that most of your may not be aware of. I was trying to buy a second hub motor to use with my Farsports wheelset that's on the way to me, so I reached out to both Orbea and Mahle. Mahle says they only sell to manufacturers and not to individuals. Orbea said to contact my dealer. My dealer then contacted Orbea, and they will not sell any X35 components to anyone including their dealers. They say they are warranty partners with Mahle, but are not resellers of Mahle parts. So if you have a component failure is less than 2 years, your Orbea dealer can warranty the part through Mahle. But after 2 years it seems there is no avenue to purchase any part of the system including the batteries. Orbea also said a second hub motor would not work and would fault the system as all the hub motors are tied to the bike's serial number. This is not true as I know of an individual that is using the hub motor off a Cannondale Neo for his second wheelset, and it works perfect with no faults. Consider yourselves warned. If Orbea doesn't change their position, we'll all be stuck with devalued non e-bikes at some point.

 

[André_Orbea]

Here's some information that most of your may not be aware of. I was trying to buy a second hub motor to use with my Farsports wheelset that's on the way to me, so I reached out to both Orbea and Mahle. Mahle says they only sell to manufacturers and not to individuals. Orbea said to contact my dealer. My dealer then contacted Orbea, and they will not sell any X35 components to anyone including their dealers. They say they are warranty partners with Mahle, but are not resellers of Mahle parts. So if you have a component failure is less than 2 years, your Orbea dealer can warranty the part through Mahle. But after 2 years it seems there is no avenue to purchase any part of the system including the batteries. Orbea also said a second hub motor would not work and would fault the system as all the hub motors are tied to the bike's serial number. This is not true as I know of an individual that is using the hub motor off a Cannondale Neo for his second wheelset, and it works perfect with no faults. Consider yourselves warned. If Orbea doesn't change their position, we'll all be stuck with devalued non e-bikes at some point.

I too am not particularly enamoured with Orbea and Mahle’s stance on Hub motors and batteries. I’ve been in touch with my bike supplier and have been offered a new hub motor for £480 GBP this then needs a full rebuild of my carbon wheel though. It’s like pulling teeth dealing with Orbea, as it’s all indirect and time passes between each update. The battery issue I haven’t even engaged in yet. Both the battery and motor are classed as non user serviceable parts and hence the only channel is through an Orbea official dealer. https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/dealers

 

[StevenC56]

I too am not particularly enamoured with Orbea and Mahle’s stance on Hub motors and batteries. I’ve been in touch with my bike supplier and have been offered a new hub motor for £480 GBP this then needs a full rebuild of my carbon wheel though. It’s like pulling teeth dealing with Orbea, as it’s all indirect and time passes between each update. The battery issue I haven’t even engaged in yet. Both the battery and motor are classed as non user serviceable parts and hence the only channel is through an Orbea official dealer. https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/dealers

480 GBP is a pretty big chunk of change, but at least they are willing to sell you one. In the US, that is not even a possibility.

 

[PedalUma]

I too am not particularly enamoured with Orbea and Mahle’s stance on Hub motors and batteries. I’ve been in touch with my bike supplier and have been offered a new hub motor for £480 GBP this then needs a full rebuild of my carbon wheel though. It’s like pulling teeth dealing with Orbea, as it’s all indirect and time passes between each update. The battery issue I haven’t even engaged in yet. Both the battery and motor are classed as non user serviceable parts and hence the only channel is through an Orbea official dealer. https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/dealers

It is a theft deterrent. Everything must go through a dealer and is linked to the serial number. Bikes used for demonstration at dealers stop working when they get fifty miles away. Sometimes these disabled bikes will end up in the wild and someone will try to sell it. They certainly cannot part it out. Each sub component is also linked with the serial number.
I go for the open source bikes like this electric one I made recently. Then I am not dealer dependent and can get a spare part within 48-hours for 1/5th the price.

 

[StevenC56]

It is a theft deterrent. Everything must go through a dealer and is linked to the serial number. Bikes used for demonstration at dealers stop working when they get fifty miles away. Sometimes these disabled bikes will end up in the wild and someone will try to sell it. They certainly cannot part it out. Each sub component is also linked with the serial number.
I go for the open source bikes like this electric one I made recently. Then I am not dealer dependent and can get a spare part within 48-hours for 1/5th the price.

Not entirely accurate since I know a person who bought 3 Cannondale bikes and is using the hub motor off of 1 bike for a second set of wheels on his Orbea M20i. Works perfectly and no fault codes. No dealer was involved in this swap at all.

 

[PedalUma]

Not entirely accurate since I know a person who bought 3 Cannondale bikes and is using the hub motor off of 1 bike for a second set of wheels on his Orbea M20i. Works perfectly and no fault codes. No dealer was involved in this swap at all.

Cool. That is exactly why I am on EBR and do not limit myself to one topic. So I can learn from my peers. To confirm: Your friend has for example an Orbea road wheelset and a Cannondale gravel X-35 wheelset and can easily swap them without problems?
Thank you.

 

[StevenC56]

Cool. That is exactly why I am on EBR and do not limit myself to one topic. So I can learn from my peers. To confirm: Your friend has for example an Orbea road wheelset and a Cannondale gravel X-35 wheelset and can easily swap them without problems?
Thank you.

He has an Orbea Gain and built 2 sets of Farsports wheels using his original hub motor on 1 wheeset, and the hub motor off a Cannondale for the second wheelset.