Cannondale Topstone Gravel Ebike

[Alaskan]

Did you read my mind, because I was just about to suggest using a dongle? Bikespeed RS claims to have 4000 kilometers on a gen 4 without detection. Also, if the dongle did not work, and I decided to return the bike, I doubt the REI techs are knowledgeable enough to notice, and if they did notice, I doubt they would care. Let's also not forget, Cannondale breached any contract/warranty from the get go with their misleading advertising. I'm simply trying to make myself whole by getting my bike to perform as advertised.

I have a Bikespeed RS on my 2018 Riese & Muller Homage and have ridden it for more than 5,000 miles without any issues. It is not the tech at REI that will discover the hack but rather the fact that the motor is all but bricked by the Bosch software on the bike and it can only be restored to proper operation by hooking it up to Bosch software in the shop connected to Bosch cloud, that will read the detected hack. they will restore the motor at the cost of loss of warranty.

It certainly would be an unexpected happy ending if it had the speed motor and could be opened up to the speed motor specs. I do suspect if you have the need for speed that the Neo 2 is your bike. Maybe you can get Cannondale to upgrade you at no up charge to the Neo 2 for your troubles if they can't deliver what they represented in their materials.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I have read some reports of lefty forks pulling left at speed and having to consciously pay attention to keeping them on track. I don;t want a bike that does that. There may be a reason they don't offer the lefty fork on a class 3 bike. The Neo 2 with its higher speed rating and fixed fork is clearly a more road oriented bike.

I have 3000km on my Lefty 3 over a variety of terrains, including a couple of 40-45mph blasts down hills (pavement) and I've never experienced any pulling to the left. At those higher speeds the bike tracked straight and felt rock solid.
I've considered adding a dongle to de-restrict the motor, but while the motor is under warranty I won't chance it. Once the motor warranty has expired I'll probably go that route.
I love my Lefty 3, but if I lived in the US and had a choice between a Lefty 3's 20mph and a Neo 2's 28mph.....I'd go with the Neo 2.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

This is a great thread, a real detective story. I get why Spicy wants and needs that extra speed and I hope you get it when the smoke clears. These look like terrific bikes regardless.

And just to further confuse the issue, here’s a screenshot from Canyon‘s site on the Grail:On that I pulled out of my browser history yesterday. The actual day the page was originally viewed was last Thursday, I believe. Clear reference to the CX motor and 28 mph assist in the same place.

 

[reed scott]

The bike mavens in videos featuring designers and production managers from some major bike producers have spoken at length about the direction they will be heading and the sorts of bikes we will be seeing. Personally given where I ride my big ole 'SUV' type of bike is great but if I rode paved surfaces and did substantial distances in my rides I would want the sort of bike you all are discussing here. If biking is a major part of one's life it really is necessary to have more than one bike. Horses for courses as it is said.

 

[Spicy Legato]

My intent is to carry a second battery. I was worried it might be onerous to swap batteries, and I was correct.

The battery has a plastic cover, which requires the removal of about five tiny nuts to disengage from the battery. So, if you want to carry a second battery, you have take the cover off the dead battery, and put it on the fresh battery. Or, you could purchase a second battery cover, which sounds good in theory, but may be impossible.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Or, you could purchase a second battery cover, which sounds good in theory, but may be impossible.

It is true for many e-bikes with integrated battery. Specialized Vado and Como are a good example. You need to order the second battery cover. No other way!
(Similarly but not the same: Spare battery for Giant Trance E+ requires additional/separate skid plate).

Legato: How do intend to carry a spare battery on a gravel e-bike? In a backpack?

P.S. Is the Bosch battery cover mandatory to be able to replace the battery? (It is in the Specialized e-bikes I mentioned, optional in Giant).

 

[Alaskan]

It is true for many e-bikes with integrated battery. Specialized Vado and Como are a good example. You need to order the second battery cover. No other way!
(Similarly but not the same: Spare battery for Giant Trance E+ requires additional/separate skid plate).

Legato: How do intend to carry a spare battery on a gravel e-bike? In a backpack?

P.S. Is the Bosch battery cover mandatory to be able to replace the battery? (It is in the Specialized e-bikes I mentioned, optional in Giant).

It is not mandatory, I suppose you could leave it open to the elements or wrap the down tube in plastic wrap like Saran Press-n-Seal, the battery will lock in place without a cover though.

I think something like a Revelate frame bag, hanging from the top tub is the right way to carry it.

Revelate Designs Tangle Bike Frame Bag - Medium | REI Co-op

Offering extra space below your top tube for bikepacking, commutes and everyday rides, the medium Revelate Tangle Bag features a 4-liter capacity and tough, water-resistant construction.

www.rei.com

 

[Saratoga Dave]

It does make that Powerpack Reise & Muller of yours look pretty good, though, doesn’t it? And isn’t the second battery on the Allant a Powerpack as well? All this in-frame design stuff looks great, but there was a good argument for the way it was done a year or two ago.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It is not mandatory, I suppose you could leave it open to the elements or wrap the down tube in plastic wrap like Saran Press-n-Seal, the battery will lock in place without a cover though.

I think something like a Revelate frame bag, hanging from the top tub is the right way to carry it.

If it is only optional, the battery chamber (with the battery in) could be wrapped in a thin neoprene mat. I was doing it with my Giant since the extra battery arrived and before the skid plate was delivered. Probably the same with Vado/Como battery - I'm just not sure.

You are doing a great job for Cannondale Richard. Now, you made me hungry! Well, the least expensive model... Derestrictor... Spare battery... Heheheh

 

[Spicy Legato]

It is not mandatory, I suppose you could leave it open to the elements or wrap the down tube in plastic wrap like Saran Press-n-Seal, the battery will lock in place without a cover though.

I think something like a Revelate frame bag, hanging from the top tub is the right way to carry it.

Revelate Designs Tangle Bike Frame Bag - Medium | REI Co-op

Offering extra space below your top tube for bikepacking, commutes and everyday rides, the medium Revelate Tangle Bag features a 4-liter capacity and tough, water-resistant construction.

www.rei.com

View attachment 80355

Just like you mentioned, my plan is to use partial frame bag to carry the second battery.

I definitely don't want to leave the battery exposed without a cover. How hard is it to order a spare battery cover from Cannondale?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Just like you mentioned, my plan is to use partial frame bag to carry the second battery.

I wonder whether the top tube is long enough.

 

[Tdete]

I purchased a Topstone Neo Lefty 3 through REI last week with the understanding it was Class 3. Having the same issue as @Spicy Legato where the motor kicks off at ~19mph. Called Cannondale's support number and they confirmed it should be Class 3. REI tech emailed Bosch rep who said the serial number shows it is a Class 1 motor. Bike is back with the REI shop and waiting on answers.

It's unclear to me whether REI has a batch of Lefty 3s that are Class 1 and weren't meant to be sold in the U.S., if marketing/website/review copy was all incorrect and there is no Class 3 of the Lefty 3 model, or if there's a firmware update that'll take the unit I have to 28mph limit.

 

[Wandering Student]

I purchased a Topstone Neo Lefty 3 through REI last week with the understanding it was Class 3. Having the same issue as @Spicy Legato where the motor kicks off at ~19mph. Called Cannondale's support number and they confirmed it should be Class 3. REI tech emailed Bosch rep who said the serial number shows it is a Class 1 motor. Bike is back with the REI shop and waiting on answers.

It's unclear to me whether REI has a batch of Lefty 3s that are Class 1 and weren't meant to be sold in the U.S., if marketing/website/review copy was all incorrect and there is no Class 3 of the Lefty 3 model, or if there's a firmware update that'll take the unit I have to 28mph limit.

I just got off the phone with a Cannondale rep. Evidently, there was a production glitch last fall where bikes intended for the American market got the CX motor. The U.S. versions should have the Performance Line Speed motor and be Class 3. I asked if REI is dipping into this batch or if they're getting new versions from Cannondale. He said new versions won't be available until the end of the year so REI probably has a batch of these CX versions that it is pulling from. He gave me the model numbers I should check against. There is only one number different between the two motors.

 

[Tdete]

That's helpful, thank you. Did Cannondale offer any solutions or did they just advise you to return the bike to REI if you're not happy with the CX motor version?

 

[Wandering Student]

That's helpful, thank you. Did Cannondale offer any solutions or did they just advise you to return the bike to REI if you're not happy with the CX motor version?

Since I haven't bought the bike yet, he told me to confirm the model number with REI. Sorry, I should've have asked what existing owners should do. I would assume you either get the correct motor put in or get a new bike with the right motor. The latter sounds like it would take longer. Or get your money back.

2 thoughts:
Is it possible to specify the motor when ordering with REI assuming they have a mix of both motors available? OR
Do they know they only have CX versions available and that's why they're being sold through the Outlet side? Is the difference between a Class 1 and Class 3 worth $1200?

 

[Spicy Legato]

I purchased a Topstone Neo Lefty 3 through REI last week with the understanding it was Class 3. Having the same issue as @Spicy Legato where the motor kicks off at ~19mph. Called Cannondale's support number and they confirmed it should be Class 3. REI tech emailed Bosch rep who said the serial number shows it is a Class 1 motor. Bike is back with the REI shop and waiting on answers.

It's unclear to me whether REI has a batch of Lefty 3s that are Class 1 and weren't meant to be sold in the U.S., if marketing/website/review copy was all incorrect and there is no Class 3 of the Lefty 3 model, or if there's a firmware update that'll take the unit I have to 28mph limit.

Thanks for your post. If you look on REI's website, it lists the Topstone Neo Lefty 3 as both a closeout, and IMPORTED!! These bikes may not be made for the US market. In any event, Bosch could fix your bike in a few minutes and remove the speed limitation. However, I doubt they will, unless you have an attorney send them a demand letter.

 

[Spicy Legato]

I could not find any instructions, or a video, on how to remove the battery from the Lefty 3. So, I made a quick video showing how it's done.

 

[Alaskan]

Since I haven't bought the bike yet, he told me to confirm the model number with REI. Sorry, I should've have asked what existing owners should do. I would assume you either get the correct motor put in or get a new bike with the right motor. The latter sounds like it would take longer. Or get your money back.

2 thoughts:
Is it possible to specify the motor when ordering with REI assuming they have a mix of both motors available? OR
Do they know they only have CX versions available and that's why they're being sold through the Outlet side? Is the difference between a Class 1 and Class 3 worth $1200?

The CX and Performance Speed are different motors. One cannot be turned into the other. I am not sure if the have the same mounting configuration so they could be swapped out.

The differences between the neo 2 & 3 are more than just the motor. Dig in to their spec sheets to learn more.

 

[Spicy Legato]

I received a response from Bosch:

"Thank you for contacting Bosch eBike Service!

According to Cannondale's website, both of the eBikes that you are inquiring about are equipped with Performance Line Speed Drive Units, which would make them both Class 3 - 28MPH assist. If you are only receiving assistance up to 20MPH, you will need to bring your eBike back into the REI where you purchased it for further review as to the potential cause, and to bring about resolution.

If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to contact us via phone (833) BOSCH-EB (267-2432) or email at [email protected] . Please reference your case number 1300247.

Best Regards,

Chris

Inside Technical Rep.

Bosch eBike Service"

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The CX and Performance Speed are different motors. One cannot be turned into the other. I am not sure if the have the same mounting configuration so they could be swapped out.

Richard: It is not because these are two different motors. It is because it is Bosch, a stiff-necked German company. I'm not saying it to give bashing to Bosch; they simply have such company policy and solutions.

Look how different Specialized are with their Brose motors:

• Specialized 1.2s (Brose TF) is equivalent to Bosch Performance Speed (both used in EU S-Pedelecs)
• Specialized 1.2 (Brose T) is equivalent to Bosch Performance Line. It is used in EU 25 km/h, Canadian 32 km/h, and U.S. Class 3 Turbo Vado and Comos. Same motor, different max speed.
• Specialized 1.3 (Brose S Alu) is equivalent to Bosch CX. It is used both in low-speed EU/Canadian top end Vados/Comos and in U.S. Class 3 e-bikes of the same model.

Specialized - an American company anyway - understands the notion of "region". They simply let the dealer set the regional speed limitation disregarding of the motor. Bosch? Never!