Cannondale Topstone Gravel Ebike

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Alaskan said:
The CX and Performance Speed are different motors. One cannot be turned into the other. I am not sure if the have the same mounting configuration so they could be swapped out.

The differences between the neo 2 & 3 are more than just the motor. Dig in to their spec sheets to learn more.
Click to expand...
From Bosch's website they look identical. However, they appear to weigh different. Removing the speed limitation on the CX, via a dongle, or Bosch, would effectively make the CX perform the same as the Speed. If the Speed is indeed installed on the Neo 2, it could be installed on the Lefty 3. They are the same frame. However, I have my doubts that the Neo 2 actually has the Performance Speed. I think all three models have the Performance CX. I'll wait until you pick up your bike, Alaskan, to be sure. I'm probably going to order a Neo 2, and return the Lefty 3.
 
Spicy Legato said:
From Bosch's website they look identical. However, they appear to weigh different. Removing the speed limitation on the CX, via a dongle, or Bosch, would effectively make the CX perform the same as the Speed. If the Speed is indeed installed on the Neo 2, it could be installed on the Lefty 3. They are the same frame. However, I have my doubts that the Neo 2 actually has the Performance Speed. I think all three models have the Performance CX. I'll wait until you pick up your bike, Alaskan, to be sure. I'm probably going to order a Neo 2, and return the Lefty 3.
Click to expand...
Now you have me worrying too. My bike is awaiting the arrival of a replacement right brake lever from Shimano. It arrived leaking. It may be a week or more before the part arrives and they can finish assembling my bike. I am going to ask them to put the bike on a Bosch dongle and verify the motor type,
 
Not getting a lot of work done today. I seem to be on the phone with everyone. Just spoke with an REI rep. After multiple "On holds to check", she says the Lefty 3s offered at REI Outlet are CX versions according to the model number I gave her. I asked if that's why they're on the Outlet site, she couldn't say. I asked is it possible to get a Line Speed version at that Outlet price, she said probably not. So at this point, would I consider a Class 1 version at $1,200 discount? Am curious to see how Spicy's case goes with Bosch.
 
Well now it is really quite personal for me too, I just got off the phone with the tech at our local REI. I called him earlier asking him to put the Bosch firmware setup on my bike and verify the motor installed on it. It is indeed a Bosch CX not a Bosch speed motor as represented.

What a $#!+ show! I told the tech that I did not want the bike if it does not come equipped with the motor that is specified on their and Cannondale's web site.

Interestingly on the Cannondale site and the REI site, for the Neo 2 the spec is accurate and consistent that the Neo 2 comes with a speed, 28 mph motor. The REI tech is calling Cannondale to see if they will ship out a speed motor for him to install on my bike. He agreed with me that I should be getting what REI and Cannondale represented in their published specs. They are calling Cannondale right away to see what the resolution is. Stay tuned...
 
Alaskan said:
Well now it is really quite personal for me too, I just got off the phone with the tech at our local REI. I called him earlier asking him to put the Bosch firmware setup on my bike and verify the motor installed on it. It is indeed a Bosch CX not a Bosch speed motor as represented.

What a $#!+ show! I told the tech that I did not want the bike if it does not come equipped with the motor that is specified on their and Cannondale's web site.

Interestingly on the Cannondale site and the REI site, for the Neo 2 the spec is accurate and consistent that the Neo 2 comes with a speed, 28 mph motor. The REI tech is calling Cannondale to see if they will ship out a speed motor for him to install on my bike. He agreed with me that I should be getting what REI and Cannondale represented in their published specs. They are calling Cannondale right away to see what the resolution is. Stay tuned...
Click to expand...
In the same boat with REI right now, that's helpful to know the Neo 2 they have in stock is also Class 1. I was considering just returning the 3 and ordering the 2 but sounds like that won't do me any good.
 
MYSTERY SOLVED!
THESE ARE CANADIAN BIKES WHICH ARE NOT INTENDED FOR THE US MARKET

The US versions of the Lefty 1, Neo 2, and Lefty 3 use the Performance Speed. The Canadian versions use the Performance CX. The Alderwood REI has a XL 2020 Lefty 3 in stock that was returned. It has the Speed motor, and does 28 mph. We got screwed big time. The simple solution is to give us the US bikes advertised. Under Washington State Law, that's what REI and Cannondale are going to have to do.
 
I will file a complaint with the Washington Attorney General's Office. I will file a BBB complaint as well. I will also consider filing a lawsuit against Cannondale.
I'm gonna start with the ATG complaint. Maybe that will light a fire under their asses and get this resolved without any further unnecessary nonsense.

General Consumer Complaint Form

fortress.wa.gov
 
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If I'm really honest with myself, the more important number for me is the 85Nm as I live by a lot of hills. I've only hit 28+mph on my Medeo once and that was to check if the motor would cut out. But it would be nice to get a Class 3 at that outlet price. I could go Alaskan's and Spicy's route of buying then complaining or maybe I'll just save up for a Niner RLT e9 RDO. Good luck on getting that right motor!
 
Wandering Student said:
If I'm really honest with myself, the more important number for me is the 85Nm as I live by a lot of hills. I've only hit 28+mph on my Medeo once and that was to check if the motor would cut out. But it would be nice to get a Class 3 at that outlet price. I could go Alaskan's and Spicy's route of buying then complaining or maybe I'll just save up for a Niner RLT e9 RDO. Good luck on getting that right motor!
Click to expand...
I wish complaining were not required, but it so often is. Washington State has pretty robust consumer protection laws. False advertising is a no-no. It can entitle a plaintiff to treble damages, court costs, attorney fees. Treble damages means three times the amount of harm.

Filing a complaint with the ATG means some higher up at the REI corporate office will catch wind of this, and hopefully set it right. Right now we are just dealing with low level techs and reps who really don't have the power to fix this.
 
Following this with interest as my REI TS neo is expected in jacksonville on thursday. if class 1 i'm likely to just take advantage of that 100% satisfaction guarantee. guess i'll have to keep riding my 25 year old litespeed.
 
Hey Stefan

Despite the similar razzle dazzle on the website, the US Grails have the CX motor. The new Giant Revolt would appear to me anyway to be the best alternative, but it is outside the Bosch world. Not an issue to me, but to each his own. They’ve brought back the 500 WH battery, but who knows if you could even find one at all.

There are certainly some others out there at least on paper, but try to actually buy one! Not so easy again this year, and may be worse than last year. My favorite bike shop looks like a clothing store these days.
 
Saratoga Dave said:
Hey Stefan

Despite the similar razzle dazzle on the website, the US Grails have the CX motor. The new Giant Revolt would appear to me anyway to be the best alternative, but it is outside the Bosch world. Not an issue to me, but to each his own. They’ve brought back the 500 WH battery, but who knows if you could even find one at all.

There are certainly some others out there at least on paper, but try to actually buy one! Not so easy again this year, and may be worse than last year. My favorite bike shop looks like a clothing store these days.
Click to expand...
Let’s not forget about the Niner RTL e9 RDO. It supposedly has the Line Speed for the US. The Revolt is definitely a contender torque-wise, but the smaller battery concerns me.
 
Saratoga Dave said:
Hey Stefan

Despite the similar razzle dazzle on the website, the US Grails have the CX motor. The new Giant Revolt would appear to me anyway to be the best alternative, but it is outside the Bosch world. Not an issue to me, but to each his own. They’ve brought back the 500 WH battery, but who knows if you could even find one at all.

There are certainly some others out there at least on paper, but try to actually buy one! Not so easy again this year, and may be worse than last year. My favorite bike shop looks like a clothing store these days.
Click to expand...
I was originally going to purchase a Yamaha Civante. However, no matter how hard I looked, I could not find a second battery for sale.
 
Has anyone used a sprung Brooks saddle, or a Thudbuster seat post? I'm thinking I would like to add it to the Lefty 3. The Lefty 3 is already a really weird bike. I might as well make it extra weird by putting a Brooks Flyer on it, yes?
 
It's too bad you guys are going through this crap with Cannondale and REI. As I mentioned in an earlier post, my Lefty 3 has the 20mph cutoff and it sucks, because this motor has tons of power and it's no fun when the motor cuts out at 19mph (yes, mine cuts out early too....thank you Bosch :mad:).
 
Spicy Legato said:
I will file a complaint with the Washington Attorney General's Office. I will file a BBB complaint as well. I will also consider filing a lawsuit against Cannondale.
I'm gonna start with the ATG complaint. Maybe that will light a fire under their asses and get this resolved without any further unnecessary nonsense.

General Consumer Complaint Form

fortress.wa.gov
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, I understand your frustration however I think you are overreacting a bit.
REI has a great return policy you can simply return the bike and shop for another one.

That being said gravel bikes usually come with cx or similar motors. Since they are marketed towards gravel riding 20mph is assumed to be sufficient. Even with cx that bike is still a great bike with a unique suspension setup and in this pandemic the price is very good. Moreover 28mph is a legal issue not a quality issue. CX version of this motor is just as good of a motor as the speed version(in the previous gen many people derestricted their motors and they were just as good if not better than their speed counterparts).

If Bosch let the dealers to decide the speed limit at the time of sale(via firmware) than this would not have been a problem to begin with. Since form factor is the same, on paper switching motors should not be a problem however I don't think Bosch or Cannondale will ever be ok with this, it is too much of a headache/ labor etc.
 
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