Canada to restrict class 3 ebikes to 20mph

[PCeBiker]

I rode my Ripstick (two wheeled skateboard) to the beer store a few years ago to pick up a six pack of cans.
I got to talking to the employee and she said that if I was caught riding my skateboard drunk, I could be charged with impaired driving and lose my drivers license.
I said "seriously"?
She said "yes, anything with wheels"

And if I lose my drivers license for impaired driving, I am banned from riding an ebike.

So technically here in Ontario, if I leave the house all juiced up, wearing a pair of Heely's I could get an impaired charge even if I'm just walking down the sidewalk and not rolling on my heels.

If I were to be charged to the fullest extent of the law, I could face jail time, thousands of dollars in fines, and be banned from riding an ebike for many years.

I know that I've gone faster than 32 km/hr on my skateboard.
I wonder if that's illegal?

Laws aren't designed to make any sense.
I think that they are designed to be humorous?

 

[DaveMatthews]

Dave I appreciate your opinion but respectfully disagree. I do not think that he would be within the law to give me a ticket if I was not breaking the speed limit. In fact I was just thinking more about it and I recall now that last week I passed a roadie heading SouthEast on SouthWest Marine drive coming from UBC. When I looked in my mirror I saw the guy was drafting me and he stayed with me the whole way around until the first light. I looked at the speedo and we were going 50 kmh which was my top speed. By your logic the cop would give me a ticket but not the roadie drafting me ? That makes no sense.

Entertaining...
Is your bike derestricted, or was that a downhill section? I have been (perhaps mistakenly) thinking that the limits were based on flat ground.

 

[PCeBiker]

I remember back in the early 80's when I had a 27" Raleigh 10 speed that I was quite proud of.
I pedaled past a cop doing radar on the side of road.
I stopped and asked him if he could clock me to see how fast I could go.
He said sure, so I pedaled back down the road, turned around and waited for all the traffic to pass (to avoid false readings), then I pedaled my ASS off.
I REALLY wanted to get a speeding ticket. I would so proud of myself !!

It was a flat road with a 50 km/h speed limit and all I needed was 51 km/h (normally you don't get a ticket until you are 10 over, but I would have asked for a ticket.)

Sadly, all that I could muster was 48 km/h so no ticket and nothing to frame and hang on my wall.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The rule in any country/region with e-bike laws is the motor shall cut off at the e-bike speed limit disregarding how the restriction limit has been exceeded. It is nightmare in Europe as exceeding 25 km/h is very easy and then you can feel your legs getting heavy as you are not assisted anymore. (Many people think it is "motor drag" but it is just the difference between being assisted or not). Two anecdotes:

Once, I was riding a Trance E+ downhill on a road in Polish Owl Mountains. The slope looked innocently yet the e-MTB was gaining the speed at a scary rate! I was trying to control the speed by modulating the brakes but Trance was riding faster and faster! Suddenly, I could see I was about to enter a 50 km/h limit area and that was the time I decided pulling on the brake levers harder. What if a kid ran onto the road? I passed the village and the e-bike got on the speed again... That was my first really fast downhill ride and I had no experience yet.

On another trip in Polish Giant Mountains, I and brother had limited time and needed to do a quick ride from Jelenia Góra (Hirschberg) to Karpacz and back. I decided to do all the trip in Turbo mode, especially for the climbs (it was very steep on the outward leg of the trip). We were returning by a main road that had a very gentle down slope. My Vado is legally a 45 km/h moped. Just think how humiliated I felt when the motor cut off at 45 km/h and I simply could not ride any faster when my brother could ride at 50 km/h with the derestricted Trance!

On that quick trip. See the Vang stave church in Karpacz, Poland. The Viking Christian church was once transported by a German emperor from Norway to that site.

 

[steve mercier]

Entertaining...
Is your bike derestricted, or was that a downhill section? I have been (perhaps mistakenly) thinking that the limits were based on flat ground.

https://www.bikespeed.de/RS_en.html. SouthWest marine drive is slightly downhill from Stadium road to 41st ave.

 

[steve mercier]

I remember back in the early 80's when I had a 27" Raleigh 10 speed that I was quite proud of.
I pedaled past a cop doing radar on the side of road.
I stopped and asked him if he could clock me to see how fast I could go.
He said sure, so I pedaled back down the road, turned around and waited for all the traffic to pass (to avoid false readings), then I pedaled my ASS off.
I REALLY wanted to get a speeding ticket. I would so proud of myself !!

It was a flat road with a 50 km/h speed limit and all I needed was 51 km/h (normally you don't get a ticket until you are 10 over, but I would have asked for a ticket.)

Sadly, all that I could muster was 48 km/h so no ticket and nothing to frame and hang on my wall.

That is impressive! Most road bike riders that I encounter cannot sustain 37 kmh unless they are very fit and drafting me.

 

[DaveMatthews]

This from ICBC (our Provincial insurance carrier)...

Electric bikes

Find out the rules for operating an electric bike in B.C.

www.icbc.com

Maximum speed​

32 km/h on level ground.

 

[PCeBiker]

That is impressive! Most road bike riders that I encounter cannot sustain 37 kmh unless they are very fit and drafting me.

I was 18 years old at the time, and I only sustained that speed for about 10 seconds.
It was more of a sprint.

 

[PCeBiker]

the motor shall cut off at the e-bike speed limit.

My old e-bike cuts power at 22 km/h.

exceeding 25 km/h is very easy.

Not on my ebike.

(Many people think it is "motor drag" but it is just the difference between being assisted or not).

My Luyuan cuts power at 22 km/h then regeneration kicks in at 25 km/h.

It even appears to be progressive regeneration. The harder you try to go faster, the more the regeneration is applied.
I can be going downhill, with a tailwind, pedaling my butt off, and my e-bike Will Not go faster than 25 km/h.

During regeneration, the voltage gets pinned at 40 volts.




Interestingly, when my ebike was imported from Europe to Canada, they basically flipped the handlebars upside-down to get the throttle on the right where it's supposed to be.
But in doing so, the twist shifter got flipped upside down and now it twists backwards.

I spent days surfing the internet trying to figure out how to disable the speed sensor so the damn thing would go faster than 25 km/h, but all I could find was the owners manual, so I gave up.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Not on my ebike.

I meant on a modern Euro e-bike For instance, it is easy on Vado SL with a 240 W max motor.

 

[PCeBiker]

I meant on a modern Euro e-bike For instance, it is easy on Vado SL with a 240 W max motor.

My ebike could be more than 20 years old.
Perhaps back in the day, the 25 km/h speed limit was more strictly enforced?
I think it's technically a scooter too?

I rode it home from the grocery store a couple of days ago with 70 pounds in the box.
I was wobbling all over the road.
I sure looked like a drunk driver.
The front forks are shot and they wobble around in all directions.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My ebike could be more than 20 years old.
Perhaps back in the day, the 25 km/h speed limit was more strictly enforced?
I think it's technically a scooter too?

I think there was a different e-bike technology 20 years ago. (Euro e-bikes do not use regeneration anymore for example). The transition over the 25 km/h is made better and better (with my Vado SL the only symptoms of the motor cut off are silence and stiffer thighs as you get no assistance anymore). There was no law on e-scooters in Europe 20 years ago, that's a very recent thing and the speed limit is 20 km/h.

Besides, electrically assisted bike (that is just defined as a "bike" in the EU) cannot have a throttle. We also have S-Pedelecs (45 km/h) defined as mopeds.

 

[PCeBiker]

I think there was a different e-bike technology 20 years ago.

It's not a geared hub, and apparently you can't regenerate with a geared hub.
I wanted to turn on regeneration for my other e-bike and it won't work with my geared hub.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It's not a geared hub, and apparently you can't regenerate with a geared hub.
I wanted to turn on regeneration for my other e-bike and it won't work with my geared hub.

No, it only works with Direct Drive motors.

 

[Stromerino]

This from ICBC (our Provincial insurance carrier)...

Electric bikes

Find out the rules for operating an electric bike in B.C.

www.icbc.com

Maximum speed​

32 km/h on level ground.

Hey Dave,

A large part of the problem, as I see it, is that ICBC will not register and insure non-speed-limited Stromers (i.e., with speed performance up to 45 km/hr). These Stromers would appear to satisfy ALL criteria to qualify as a “Limited Speed Motorcycle” (LSM), as defined in the BC MVA Regs, specifically: (1) two or three wheels; (2) max. motor output of 1500 Watts; (3) no clutching/shifting; (4) max. speed of 70 km/hr; (5) max. weight of 95 kg; and (6) min. wheel diameter of 25.4 cm. As such, owners of these Stromers are entitled to registration and insurance, just like any other LSM.

Notwithstanding, ICBC simply REFUSES to register/insure non-speed-limited Stromers, solely on the basis that they are “equipped with bicycle-style pedals”. To be clear, such a pedal exclusion has absolutely NO basis in BC law, regulation or even ICBC policy. Yet ICBC REFUSES to register/licence these Stromers on the authority of (get this) their own (self-serving) web page, the same one you’ve referenced.

ICBC doesn’t seem to understand or accept that, as the government agency responsible for registration, licensing and insuring motor vehicles in BC, it must FOLLOW the government’s black letter law/regulations and cannot make up its own rules, by writing up an equivocally-worded web page.

 

[Stromerino]

I guess what I do not understand is why/how Stromer (or dealers) thought they were good to go with an ebike that falls outside of these parameters...

British Columbia​

An e-bike is identified as a “motor assisted cycle” (MAC) in British Columbia, which differs from electric mopeds and scooters, which are “limited-speed motorcycles.” Motor assisted cycles must: have an electric motor of no more than 500 W; have fully operable pedals; not be capable of propelling the device at a speed greater than 32 km/hr [19.9 mph]. The engine must disengage when (a) the operator stops pedaling, (b) an accelerator controller is released, OR (c) a brake is applied. A driver’s license, vehicle registration, and insurance are all not required. Rider must be 16 years old or more, and a bike helmet must be worn.

E-bikes in British Columbia must comply with all standards outlined in Motor Assisted Cycle Regulation, BC Reg 151/2002.

Hey Dave,

It depends how you look at it. In BC, if you want to qualify as a MAC then your e-bike cannot go faster than 32 km/hr, as well as other criteria laid out in the BC Motor Assisted Cycle Regulation (as you have listed them). The benefit of MAC qualification is that there no requirement for registration or insurance, just like any other non-motorized bike.

But, if you may want to travel faster sometimes, as you can on a non-speed-limited Stromer, i.e. up to 45 km/hr, there is no prohibition in law or regulation, concerning travel on public roadways in BC, unless there may be a posted speed limit applicable like in a school zone.

The problem arises because ICBC refuses to register and insure these non-speed-limited Stromers — on the sole basis that they are “equipped with bicycle-style pedals”. Unfortunately, this would appear to be a self-serving definition/practice that is inconsistent with BC law and regulations. In fact, these Stromers satisfy all criteria to qualify as a Limited Speed Motorcycle (LSM), as defined in the BC Motor Vehicle Act and Regulations. Along with some other Stromer owners who like travelling faster than 32 km/hr, I would be happy to comply with the BC MVA and Regs by getting registered and insured as an LSM.

 

[Tbill]

What if you take your bike to another country for the winter? Can this over the air update be disabled?

 

[gromike]

It's not a geared hub, and apparently you can't regenerate with a geared hub.
I wanted to turn on regeneration for my other e-bike and it won't work with my geared hub.

With non-helical geared hub motors yes you can, though you need to disable the freewheeling clutch inside the motor. Grin has done this in a motor. Supposedly, some bits of weld can lock up the clutch.

 

[PedalUma]

From my experience, and I am still learning everyday, re-gen is not worth the overhead it costs in overall efficiency. This is true even in places like San Francisco. I learned that it is more of a cool sounding sales pitch than a real world benefit. I dug deep on the topic sometime ago because it on the surface has a strong appeal to me.

 

[PCeBiker]

From my experience, and I am still learning everyday, re-gen is not worth the overhead it costs in overall efficiency. This is true even in places like San Francisco. I learned that it is more of a cool sounding sales pitch than a real world benefit. I dug deep on the topic sometime ago because it on the surface has a strong appeal to me.

OK, now I want to install a flow meter on my old e-bike,..

It sure feels like the regen is working hard? Is it all just being turned into heat? Is it just like a coaster brake?

(My scale is backwards,.. a big charge into my battery would read towards LOW)