Bikepacking with an E-Bike

[Aushiker]

Hi

It has been a while since I had an e-bike, but age etc, is catching up, so I am back in the market for an e-bike that I can use for bikepacking. I am considering either a gravel bike or a hardtail mountain bike. My bikepacking is fully self-sufficient (camping), and while it has been more adventurous, I expect it will be toned down with an e-bike, e.g., either more limited kilometres a day or no more than maybe two days out between a town visit for recharging.

To provide some context. This is my current bikepacking bike, a Salsa Mutluk. I also have a Surly Long Haul Trucker. I hope to set up an e-bike for bikepacking along the lines of the Salsa but not as a fat bike if that makes sense.

Hassell Beach - Looking East - {Day 10-10} by Andrew Priest, on Flickr

Next Stop Bremer Bay - {Day 08-08} by Andrew Priest, on Flickr

The bike will ridden on mainly gravel roads, 4WD tracks (can be sandy here) and single track, so I am thinking of either a gravel bike or a hardtail mountain bike.

This initial post is to get a feel for what e-bikes one does, bikepacking and/or bike touring.

My very early research (I am in Australia) has flagged a Canyon Grail:ON CF 7 ( I have seen the EBR review of the CF 8). My niggles with this bike are that is carbon fibre (okay for loading with bikepacking gear - I am probably a bit old school in my thinking here) and the lack of USB charging (maybe there are options).

Anyway, your input is most welcome.

 

[mschwett]

there are some great carbon gravel bikes, but not too many great carbon flat bar eBikes with good provisions for carrying as much as it sounds like you’d like - even if reduced from your current load out! I’d start by looking at something more conventional like a Kona dew-e dl, not horribly heavy (42lb), but a reliable, fairly powerful mid drive with lots of standardized parts, plenty of ways to attach stuff from a manufacturer who knows bikes.

if you really want something light and sporty, the flat bar Santa Cruz Skitch is a 30lb carbon gravel bike with a state of the art mid drive, a good sized battery for it’s weight, but you’d really want to carry most of your stuff in frame or seat post bags. 50mm tire clearance.

what’s your budget? minimum tire clearance? there aren’t too many proper “touring“ or bikepacking e-bikes. would you go for something custom or are you looking for off the shelf from a big brand?

 

[Aushiker]

there are some great carbon gravel bikes, but not too many great carbon flat bar eBikes with good provisions for carrying as much as it sounds like you’d like - even if reduced from your current load out! I’d start by looking at something more conventional like a Kona dew-e dl, not horribly heavy (42lb), but a reliable, fairly powerful mid drive with lots of standardized parts, plenty of ways to attach stuff from a manufacturer who knows bikes.

if you really want something light and sporty, the flat bar Santa Cruz Skitch is a 30lb carbon gravel bike with a state of the art mid drive, a good sized battery for it’s weight, but you’d really want to carry most of your stuff in frame or seat post bags. 50mm tire clearance.

what’s your budget? minimum tire clearance? there aren’t too many proper “touring“ or bikepacking e-bikes. would you go for something custom or are you looking for off the shelf from a big brand?

Thanks for your comments. My load (sans the water) is pretty much minimal nowadays. 'Normal' backpacking can see me carrying up to five days of water, but with an e-bike and having to charge it, that is not going to happen, so the setup on the fat bike is pretty much it. but hopefully without the need for a rack.

I will get a custom frame bag for whichever bike I purchase. The rest of the gear I have. The frame bag on the fat bike is a custom bag from Bike Bag Dude.

I built the fat bike up from a frame, and whilst that was a great but expensive experience, I will be going off the shelf this time. The price range is around AUD $6,000 to $7,000. I hadn't considered Kona bikes, so will look into the Dew. Kona Australia lists them on their website, but I can only find a few 2022 models for sale. Santa Cruz does not it seems, bring their e-bikes into Australia.

After spending way too much time online today, my current shortlist is, based on price, features and local availability:

Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0
Specialized Turbo Tero 5.0

Focus Aventura 6.9
Focus Jarifa 6.9

Canyon Grail:ON CF7

Tyre clearance: It would be ideally at least 50mm. Other than the Canyon, the others are around 57 - to 60mm, but they for a weight gain of approximately ~10 kg (22 lbs). That said, I would need to add mudguards, lights, and a kickstand to the Canyon, so cutting it to the weight saving.

I must admit the Canyon or similar is my current preference.

Edit: Just came across this ride report, which gives an insight to Australian touring (well road touring in this case)

 

[mclewis1]

Buy a Surly Bridge Club. Add a BBSHD or more preferably a CYC mid motor kit (the CYC is a newer slightly lighter design with more flexibility in it's installation/use). Add a good 48 or 52v battery and you're all set (perhaps using two). You might also consider a simple solar charging setup to improve your range if you're not recharging completely each night.

You'll likely also have to rethink your bag/carrying setup a bit as the battery will take the place of a significant amount of what would be bag space.

 

[Nvreloader]

Aushiker
Here is a site of a bike backer that is all over the Western side of NV, I haven't read all of his posts, yet, but he is all over with his friends that also do the same trips etc.
I have seen his bike tracks all over my areas, he also gives some of the equipment lists he uses on his bike, I don't know if he use and ebike or standard pedal type.
I have contacted him to find out when he is going to be around here,
I might try to follow him for a trip on my ebike. HtH's. Don

Bikepacking Northern Nevada

Exploring Nevada's backroads by bicycle

bikepackingnv.blog

 

[keithj69]

Why not convert the surly?

 

[Aushiker]

Buy a Surly Bridge Club. Add a BBSHD or more preferably a CYC mid motor kit (the CYC is a newer slightly lighter design with more flexibility in it's installation/use). Add a good 48 or 52v battery and you're all set (perhaps using two). You might also consider a simple solar charging setup to improve your range if you're not recharging completely each night.

You'll likely also have to rethink your bag/carrying setup a bit as the battery will take the place of a significant amount of what would be bag space.

The bike looks nice, but having done a conversion in the past with a Bafang and Giant roadie (Defy), I am looking for an off-the-shelf option this time.

 

[Aushiker]

Why not convert the surly?

That is an option for sure, but having done a conversion in the past with a Bafang and Giant roadie (Defy), I am this time looking for an off-the-shelf option. I also am rather fond of my Surly as it is; having done lots of kilometres on it and I still enjoy riding. it.

 

[TrevorB]

Koga do customer touring ebikes with bosch cx 85nm and 750wh battery, 180kg max weight. You can spec build and leave stuff out you may already have or can borrow from existing bikes.

Worth checking other touring bike manufacturers

With 750wh battery budget on 100km range.

 

[Aushiker]

Thanks, Trevor for the suggestion but it seems Koga is not sold in Australia

I like the Riese & Müller Supercharger 2, particularly the dual battery configuration, which provides 1,250 watts*, which is very handy for touring here in Western Australia (access to water and power are the biggest limitations in the touring I like doing).

In particular, this journal at Crazy Guy on Bike (CGOAB) has swayed me. Also, this journal at CGOAB was very informative as well. That, plus being the most common ebike to be mentioned on CGOAB and positively, has been the Supercharger 2.

On the downside is the price ...

* I am aware that it is possible to carry a second battery, but I haven't really come across a suitable secure way to do that, and the length of the Bosch PowerTube 750 is pretty long (484 mm / 19").

My other short-listed option at this point in time is the Focus Aventura 6.9. It only has one PowerTube 750 battery, so would need to carry a second battery unless it can be upgraded to take a Bosch DualBattery. I am looking into that option.

 

[TrevorB]

Thanks, Trevor for the suggestion but it seems Koga is not sold in Australia

I like the Riese & Müller Supercharger 2, particularly the dual battery configuration, which provides 1,250 watts*, which is very handy for touring here in Western Australia (access to water and power are the biggest limitations in the touring I like doing).

In particular, this journal at Crazy Guy on Bike (CGOAB) has swayed me. Also, this journal at CGOAB was very informative as well. That, plus being the most common ebike to be mentioned on CGOAB and positively, has been the Supercharger 2.

On the downside is the price ...

* I am aware that it is possible to carry a second battery, but I haven't really come across a suitable secure way to do that, and the length of the Bosch PowerTube 750 is pretty long (484 mm / 19").

My other short-listed option at this point in time is the Focus Aventura 6.9. It only has one PowerTube 750 battery, so would need to carry a second battery unless it can be upgraded to take a Bosch DualBattery. I am looking into that option.

The old 500wh powerpacks were lot easy to carry as spare. I can just fit a 625wh in 22l pannier. NB lot bikes which use shorter powertube 400 &500wh are quite often sized to take 625wh. They fit a spacer to shorter batteries.
I'm planning 200km ride and decided to take a trailer as I'm also carrying to 2 spare 625wh.

Just to confuse things Bosch do a powertube vertical and horizontal in 400,500,625wh, same dimension just where connector is and how they mount in frame differs. Typically vertical is on top side and used with 65nm motors while horizontal is underside of tube and used with 85nm CX.

Edit. Old review but still valid NB payload upgrade option. https://ebike-mtb.com/en/riese-mueller-supercharger2-gt-touring-2020-review/.

I'd ignore these guys comments on brakes they rubbish any bike that doesn't have at least 4pots with 200mm rotors.

 

[peterh_nz]

I like the Riese & Müller Supercharger 2, particularly the dual battery configuration, which provides 1,250 watts*, which is very handy for touring here in Western Australia (access to water and power are the biggest limitations in the touring I like doing).

In particular, this journal at Crazy Guy on Bike (CGOAB) has swayed me. Also, this journal at CGOAB was very informative as well. That, plus being the most common ebike to be mentioned on CGOAB and positively, has been the Supercharger 2.

Thanks for the above link. Interesting.

In your research, did you read about this guy who rode a RM SC2 towing a trailer across the US:

E-biking is in Your Future – E-bike Tour Across the United States – One Cent Per Mile

ebiketour.org

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Aushiker]

The old 500wh powerpacks were lot easy to carry as spare. I can just fit a 625wh in 22l pannier. NB lot bikes which use shorter powertube 400 &500wh are quite often sized to take 625wh. They fit a spacer to shorter batteries.
I'm planning 200km ride and decided to take a trailer as I'm also carrying to 2 spare 625wh.

Just to confuse things Bosch do a powertube vertical and horizontal in 400,500,625wh, same dimension just where connector is and how they mount in frame differs. Typically vertical is on top side and used with 65nm motors while horizontal is underside of tube and used with 85nm CX.

Edit. Old review but still valid NB payload upgrade option. https://ebike-mtb.com/en/riese-mueller-supercharger2-gt-touring-2020-review/.

I'd ignore these guys comments on brakes they rubbish any bike that doesn't have at least 4pots with 200mm rotors.

Thanks for the information on the Bosch batteries; I hadn't picked up on the difference between horizontal and vertical batteries.

One possible option for carrying the spare battery is along the top tube, aka @Dallant's hack discussed here. Going by the geometry chart for the Focus Aventura I think it could be carried there.

Thanks also for the review ... I think the bike still has the same discs. I haven't seen anyone else comment on them, so I assume that they are, as you suggest, a non-issue.

 

[Aushiker]

Thanks for the above link. Interesting.

In your research, did you read about this guy who rode a RM SC2 towing a trailer across the US:

E-biking is in Your Future – E-bike Tour Across the United States – One Cent Per Mile

ebiketour.org

Good luck with your decision.

I hadn't come across the journal. Off to read it know thanks.

 

[peterh_nz]

Thanks also for the review ... I think the bike still has the same discs. I haven't seen anyone else comment on them, so I assume that they are, as you suggest, a non-issue

After using my SC2 for more than 14,400km I can say that the brakes are a non issue! In my experience they are easily powerful enough and very reliable.

 

[Aushiker]

@peterh_nz and anyone else with input, I have a couple more questions for you if I may (Oh, BTW, lead time is about three months for a derailleur build. Of course, if want to spend the extra AU$3,120 on a Rohloff build one is available off the floor.) Edit: The local R&M specialist dealer is offering a 49cm Rohloff with Nyon cockpit and 1250Wh dual battery ready to ship in Germany (https://www.r-m.de/en-au/bikes/supercharger/supercharger-gt-rohloff/#F00745_04011009) $11,699. That is marginally more expensive than the derailleur version at $11,397. Looks like a Rohloff SuperCharger might be coming my way. Just do not tell SWMBO, as I was meant to sell my motorbike first.

[1] Anyway, are you running the stock bars? I use a Jones H Bar on my fat bike, and I am very keen to fit one to the Supercharger as well. I have seen one video of one fitted, and it appears to fit okay. Edit: Will not fit with the Nyon cockpit, but they can fit an after-market R&M comfort bar, which has some sweep.

[2] Any thoughts on the front rack? Just more weight? Maybe a better mount for the dry bag? I will be using Salsa Anything Cages HD on the forks. Again, I have seen videos of these fitted in combination with the front rack.

[4] Do you use the Nyon display? I currently ride with a Garmin Edge 1030 which I am very happy with it so debating the value in upgrading from the Intruvia to the Nyon. I understand the Nyon provides detailed battery usage data on the go versus bars or percentages widely spaced. Edit: Given the bike on offer, this becomes a moot point.

Thanks in advance

 

[BikerG]

Any thoughts on the front rack? Just more weight? Maybe a better mount for the dry bag? I will be using Salsa Anything Cages HD on the forks. Again, I have seen videos of these fitted in combination with the front rack.

I retrofitted an AEROE dry bag cradle on the fork arch using a diy aluminum bracket. Performs very well.

 

[TrevorB]

Front rack

Thule Tour Rack | Thule | New Zealand

-

www.thule.com

 

[Art Deco]

Hi

It has been a while since I had an e-bike, but age etc, is catching up, so I am back in the market for an e-bike that I can use for bikepacking. I am considering either a gravel bike or a hardtail mountain bike. My bikepacking is fully self-sufficient (camping), and while it has been more adventurous, I expect it will be toned down with an e-bike, e.g., either more limited kilometres a day or no more than maybe two days out between a town visit for recharging.

To provide some context. This is my current bikepacking bike, a Salsa Mutluk. I also have a Surly Long Haul Trucker. I hope to set up an e-bike for bikepacking along the lines of the Salsa but not as a fat bike if that makes sense.

Hassell Beach - Looking East - {Day 10-10} by Andrew Priest, on Flickr

Next Stop Bremer Bay - {Day 08-08} by Andrew Priest, on Flickr

The bike will ridden on mainly gravel roads, 4WD tracks (can be sandy here) and single track, so I am thinking of either a gravel bike or a hardtail mountain bike.

This initial post is to get a feel for what e-bikes one does, bikepacking and/or bike touring.

My very early research (I am in Australia) has flagged a Canyon Grail:ON CF 7 ( I have seen the EBR review of the CF 8). My niggles with this bike are that is carbon fibre (okay for loading with bikepacking gear - I am probably a bit old school in my thinking here) and the lack of USB charging (maybe there are options).

Anyway, your input is most welcome.

You should follow @Mr. Coffee . And check some of his older threads via the search function. Some bike camping wisdom there.

 

[TrevorB]

R&M multicharger is also worth considering as its designed to handle 60kg of cargo. I'd get single 625wh battery version and carry spare in pannier.

Also checkout other longtail cargo ebikes, Cube has new one with descent tires. The long tails typical have centre kickstand that makes loading and unloading very easy.