Bafang Ultra "Smooth" tune by Mike at Frey

I'm sorry, I don't understand why this is a confusing question. If you buy an m620 motor, install it, and then ride on throttle, it will spike at 30 amps and then taper off until it approaches the speed at which that particular throttle position corresponds to.

Now that I've installed an eggrider and copied the smooth settings, when I ride on throttle (throttle in default speed mode) it will spike at 30 amps just as it does with the stock settings and display, but then the motor cuts out for a few seconds. In current mode, it happens when giving it full open throttle which corresponds to 100% current limit AKA 30 amp draw. My theory is that the stock display and controller settings may let spikes slightly over 30 amps through (or the programing limits it to something like 27 amps so just brief spikes hit 30amps). Seems no one else in this thread has experienced this...

In this example the motor is not working hard, just flat riding at low speeds, cool temperatures and not continuously trying to pull 30 amps. Really just pretty mellow riding.
To help explain my apparent confusion, I own the Uart version, pretty familiar with the programming options, and currently running a very lightly modified Smooth tune that I couldn't be any happier with. Have maybe 1500 miles on it, but honestly am rarely pushing it's upper limits (not much on throttle use for starters). My thought is your issue lies in the use of the Egg Rider, which is something I've never messed with, nor have I heard/read about many others using them in this application. FWIW, -Al
 
To help explain my apparent confusion, I own the Uart version, pretty familiar with the programming options, and currently running a very lightly modified Smooth tune that I couldn't be any happier with. Have maybe 1500 miles on it, but honestly am rarely pushing it's upper limits (not much on throttle use for starters). My thought is your issue lies in the use of the Egg Rider, which is something I've never messed with, nor have I heard/read about many others using them in this application. FWIW, -Al
Thanks for your feedback. Over the next couple of days I'm going to go back to stock settings and see if that changes anything and try swapping back to the DPC18 display and see how it behaves. The eggrider allows you to adjust the settings the same way as using the programming cable and computer. But it does have some of it's own display specific settings as well. I'm not sure if it has any hard-coded safety cutoffs or what. I'm surprised no-one has mentioned this issue, I think I've found every discussion of smooth-tune on the internet :)
 
Thanks for your feedback. Over the next couple of days I'm going to go back to stock settings and see if that changes anything and try swapping back to the DPC18 display and see how it behaves. The eggrider allows you to adjust the settings the same way as using the programming cable and computer. But it does have some of it's own display specific settings as well. I'm not sure if it has any hard-coded safety cutoffs or what. I'm surprised no-one has mentioned this issue, I think I've found every discussion of smooth-tune on the internet :)
Re: hard coded safety cut offs, I doubt seriously it can over ride the controller setting - which is generally set at 30a by default (a good plan, but it is adjustable). The other thought is, in the UART based setup, there's just a ton of settings dealing with PAS levels, pedal pressure, crank rpm, motor rpm, load, road speed and on and on - any of which might cause the issue you could be dealing with, plus the different possible combinations. Thought/point here being in my mind, if you can get that Egg Rider set up to something close to what you're after, it's doing a pretty good job for you.... My understanding is that the OEM settings are not to tough to beat - especially when it comes to the torque sensing. Egg Rider could work out really well there and maybe a few other areas?
 
So I ended up having some time today to figure this out. I reset the motor settings to default but was still getting cutouts at full throttle and pedal assist 9 while pulling 30 amps. I reinstalled the stock DPC18 and no cut outs. I also noticed that at full throttle the DPC18 showed one hash under 30 amps on the display, so that got me thinking it was limiting the current to 28ish amps. Essentially my theory that throttle would spike to 30 amps is wrong, with the DPC18 it doesn't quite reach 30 amps. So I reconnected the Eggrider and set the battery current limit on the Basic page to 28 amps and then reset the programming to Smooth Tune settings. No more cutting out.

So it's fixed, but I still don't understand fully why. The settings read from the controller before changing anything showed current limit @ 30 amps on basic page, but it seems the DPC-18 display over-rides this setting and limits the current below 30 amps. I'm guessing a firmware thing and some m620 motors can pull 30 amps and some are limited to 28 amps. IDK, just following up to add to the knowledge base.
 
So I ended up having some time today to figure this out. I reset the motor settings to default but was still getting cutouts at full throttle and pedal assist 9 while pulling 30 amps. I reinstalled the stock DPC18 and no cut outs. I also noticed that at full throttle the DPC18 showed one hash under 30 amps on the display, so that got me thinking it was limiting the current to 28ish amps. Essentially my theory that throttle would spike to 30 amps is wrong, with the DPC18 it doesn't quite reach 30 amps. So I reconnected the Eggrider and set the battery current limit on the Basic page to 28 amps and then reset the programming to Smooth Tune settings. No more cutting out.

So it's fixed, but I still don't understand fully why. The settings read from the controller before changing anything showed current limit @ 30 amps on basic page, but it seems the DPC-18 display over-rides this setting and limits the current below 30 amps. I'm guessing a firmware thing and some m620 motors can pull 30 amps and some are limited to 28 amps. IDK, just following up to add to the knowledge base.
Wow, it's nice to hear the Egg Rider is able to do what you're talking about. My next question, with the Smooth tune installed as you have, how well does the torque sensing seem to be functioning? Or haven't you visited that much?
 
Wow, it's nice to hear the Egg Rider is able to do what you're talking about. My next question, with the Smooth tune installed as you have, how well does the torque sensing seem to be functioning? Or haven't you visited that much?
I've ridden around 100 miles with smooth tune. I think it's a great starting point, much better than stock programming. I'm going to start experimenting with some settings to hopefully address a couple things I don't like about it though. I feel like the start pressure on the pedals is too light, and I don't like the ghost pedaling feeling where the motor continues to run if you spin the pedals, even if not really putting any pressure on them.

Going to start by increasing the StartKg % and see how that goes.
 
I've ridden around 100 miles with smooth tune. I think it's a great starting point, much better than stock programming. I'm going to start experimenting with some settings to hopefully address a couple things I don't like about it though. I feel like the start pressure on the pedals is too light, and I don't like the ghost pedaling feeling where the motor continues to run if you spin the pedals, even if not really putting any pressure on them.

Going to start by increasing the StartKg % and see how that goes.
Hate to see this info buried 13 pages deep in this string. If it looks like it's going to work out well, maybe consider starting a new one here in the Bafang forum?
 
Wow, it's nice to hear the Egg Rider is able to do what you're talking about. My next question, with the Smooth tune installed as you have, how well does the torque sensing seem to be functioning? Or haven't you visited that much?
If you think the CA3 is clumsy…
Gionirocket has a EggRider I sent to him. He’s not using it. I betcha he’d pass it on for you to experiment. But it’s no where near as user friendly as the latest Penoff multiplatform AP and programming cable. I gifted all 3 of mine to users here.
 
If you think the CA3 is clumsy…
Gionirocket has a EggRider I sent to him. He’s not using it. I betcha he’d pass it on for you to experiment. But it’s no where near as user friendly as the latest Penoff multiplatform AP and programming cable. I gifted all 3 of mine to users here.
Tom, unless I'm mistaken (which would be no surprise), @Imagineaudio is messing with a CANBUS motor. In that situation, my thinking was more about all these guys not being able to change their CANBUS setups, not how clumsy/awkward it might be to do that.

I'm pretty happy with my PC's ability to program my UART version. I haven't messed with the multi platform (have no need to) but you aren't suggesting that it can be used to set up a CANBUS motor are you?
 
If you think the CA3 is clumsy…
Gionirocket has a EggRider I sent to him. He’s not using it. I betcha he’d pass it on for you to experiment. But it’s no where near as user friendly as the latest Penoff multiplatform AP and programming cable. I gifted all 3 of mine to users here.
What's not user friendly about the Eggrider? I think being able to make changes mid ride is great. So far I'm finding it pretty straight forward and easy to use.

I looked up the Penoff app, which I wasn't familiar with. it appears there is no Torque Tab? Those are really the most important settings on an Ultra.
Tom, unless I'm mistaken (which would be no surprise), @Imagineaudio is messing with a CANBUS motor. In that situation, my thinking was more about all these guys not being able to change their CANBUS setups, not how clumsy/awkward it might be to do that.

I'm pretty happy with my PC's ability to program my UART version. I haven't messed with the multi platform (have no need to) but you aren't suggesting that it can be used to set up a CANBUS motor are you?
As far as I know CANBUS is still pretty locked down except for some basic settings. Eggrider is only compatible with UART motors. From what I can see, there really isn't much difference between programming with a cable and PC and Eggrider other than the Continues Get function and being able to save and load configuration files on the PC. You could even just use the Eggrider to program and then reinstall your stock dispaly. So far, it feels like an upgrade.
 
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What's not user friendly about the Eggrider?
I sold dozens of them. And they were a problem for MANY users. I'm happy you have found them useful. I found them to require far more support time than I earned in sales commissions. They cost me a lot of time, indicating to me that a fair number of customers found them difficult. And after 8 years of BBSxx mid-drives, I've owned and ridden EVERY model, I never did see the utility of making changes mid-ride. But of course, others do. Enjoy!! BTW I found their Facebook page excellent for getting pretty quick support.
Tom, unless I'm mistaken (which would be no surprise), @Imagineaudio is messing with a CANBUS motor. In that situation, my thinking was more about all these guys not being able to change their CANBUS setups, not how clumsy/awkward it might be to do that.

I'm pretty happy with my PC's ability to program my UART version. I haven't messed with the multi platform (have no need to) but you aren't suggesting that it can be used to set up a CANBUS motor are you?
No sorry Al, I get this confused. My apologies, of course, you're correct.🤭
 
I sold dozens of them. And they were a problem for MANY users. I'm happy you have found them useful. I found them to require far more support time than I earned in sales commissions. They cost me a lot of time, indicating to me that a fair number of customers found them difficult. And after 8 years of BBSxx mid-drives, I've owned and ridden EVERY model, I never did see the utility of making changes mid-ride. But of course, others do. Enjoy!! BTW I found their Facebook page excellent for getting pretty quick support.

No sorry Al, I get this confused. My apologies, of course, you're correct.🤭
Fair enough, it is a bit technical and the manual isn't super easy to follow. But for me, it's been great. I think programming mid ride is most useful at the beginning when dialing in settings and probably less useful latr on and it might be a bigger benefit on the ultra over a BBSXX since there are more settings and they are pretty nuanced.

Having 2 substantially different profiles is nice too. 👌
 
Fair enough, it is a bit technical and the manual isn't super easy to follow. But for me, it's been great. I think programming mid ride is most useful at the beginning when dialing in settings and probably less useful latr on and it might be a bigger benefit on the ultra over a BBSXX since there are more settings and they are pretty nuanced.

Having 2 substantially different profiles is nice too. 👌
If you think the CA3 is clumsy…
Gionirocket has a EggRider I sent to him. He’s not using it. I betcha he’d pass it on for you to experiment. But it’s no where near as user friendly as the latest Penoff multiplatform AP and programming cable. I gifted all 3 of mine to users here.

Not applicable here for the lack of the Ultra's torque page but I've found for the BBS* the SPEEED APP and an android phone to be the best for me allowing easy field tuning and my phone to double as a display if desired.
The eggrider I've found to be excellent for gathering data and producing graphs for comparison/troubleshooting but way too small with tiny buttons that are harder to manipulate when off road, on bumpy terrain and/or at speed. The off riders center tiny display is useless in any hard to read situation whether those mentioned or lighting wise.
For those reason I prefer the the 860c display which I can operate and read easily as my full time display and to just connect my phone to make programming tweaks on the fly.
Proper programming is very personal so even on the BBS* the ability to try tweaks in specific conditions is valuable on the road. Using someone else's programming can work but considering that they have a different bike, drivetrain, weight load and riding preference leaves a lot of personalisation on the table.
But yes the longer you own your ride the less often you need to make changes, but one example is tuning things down a bit in the winter.
 
Tuned my BBS01(a) June 2014 motors in August 2014. Haven’t touched the settings since.
As long as it works for you that's great...
But subtle changes like 1 or 2% of PAS Speed or +/- 5% of motor power can be the all the difference between the bike having a more natural feel or the motor is taking you for a ride.
And if you still haven't tried an elevated Stop Decay setting on your BBS* for smoothness which wasn't done in 2014... you're riding a Flintstone mobile! YabadabaDOooo! 🤣
 
And if you still haven't tried an elevated Stop Decay setting on your BBS* for smoothness which wasn't done in 2014...
GR
Can you explain more on this elevated Stop Decay setting?
I am still learning......... would this work on the Ultra motor also?
Tia,
Don
 
GR
Can you explain more on this elevated Stop Decay setting?
I am still learning......... would this work on the Ultra motor also?
Tia,
Don
It's hard to nail down its specific function but the result of raising the setting near or above 1000ms is that it greatly minimizes lurching or the ON - OFF feel of the motor. It also smooths out the acceleration curve and gives it a more natural feel.
It's affect is also interlaced with other settings so it can take some experimenting to find your optimal set point. In other words.... its a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.
Here's a thread if you are interested.
No experience with the Ultra but on the BBSO2B I've set it from 0 (the default standard) to 2500ms with no ill effects if you want to be the first to experiment. Currently I believe I have it set at 1200 or 1400ms
 
So I ended up having some time today to figure this out. I reset the motor settings to default but was still getting cutouts at full throttle and pedal assist 9 while pulling 30 amps. I reinstalled the stock DPC18 and no cut outs. I also noticed that at full throttle the DPC18 showed one hash under 30 amps on the display, so that got me thinking it was limiting the current to 28ish amps. Essentially my theory that throttle would spike to 30 amps is wrong, with the DPC18 it doesn't quite reach 30 amps. So I reconnected the Eggrider and set the battery current limit on the Basic page to 28 amps and then reset the programming to Smooth Tune settings. No more cutting out.

So it's fixed, but I still don't understand fully why. The settings read from the controller before changing anything showed current limit @ 30 amps on basic page, but it seems the DPC-18 display over-rides this setting and limits the current below 30 amps. I'm guessing a firmware thing and some m620 motors can pull 30 amps and some are limited to 28 amps. IDK, just following up to add to the knowledge base.
Hello @imageadio,
Thanks for your feedback. I had the same issue at first, the motor would alternate between off and on every 2-4 seconds. It felt like it was delivery enough power for the speed at which the bike was going but I was only going ~5km/h (3.11 mph). I corrected that issue by using Frey's smooth settings.
But then I got into another issue, the motor is not delivery any where near what it should be although it displaying +500 watts of power. Super weird. It's almost like the Eggrider or G510 controller is not measuring the correct current.
So here are my symptoms and steps I've tried in hope someone can help me out here.

The bike and components are brand new (except for throttle and one dcp10 display for test, I'll go over that later why that is case).
Battery 52V 40A. Bafang G510/M620 (52V version, not my settings, I bought as is.). Eggrider with latest version as of 23/11/2022. Programmed Frey's smooth settings via Eggrider and also USB.

Symptoms: Whether I'm in PAS 1 or 9, I get the exact same motor power output. It feels like maybe ~100-250W (max, probably less to be honest) of power from the motor but I get readings like ~+500W.
I tried to reset settings to stock, not much difference.
I tried to update the eggrider, no difference.
I tried Frey's settings again, no difference.
So I tried a friends throttle and things got weird. At first nothing was different, the motor power output was poor just like with pedaling. In desperation, I left the throttle full open and started to notice the motor would slowly and gradually output more and more REAL power and speed at which point the motor speed and power kinda spiked and stayed steady. This is when I let go of the throttle only to find the motor would not stop, some sort of cruise control like on some scooters. I had to power the bike to stop it.
When I turned the bike on, I went for another rider and got the same effect but this time I finally got REAL full power just like it should be (based on other bike builds with similar voltage & power specs). But it did not last. A high temperature error displayed on the Eggrider and cut the motor but I was on flat road. After a few minutes of cooling, I tried the bike again and got the same shitty low power I had since the beginning.
I tried a different display (DCP10). At first I still had the same low power. But for another brief moment, while the back wheel was in the air (on bike stand), I got full power. I thought to myself, at last it's working and put the bike down for a ride but nay, nothing had changed. I'm aware the running the motor in the air does not apply the same resistance that on the ground, but you could clearly tell there was a difference in power and speed just by observation.

I spent money, time and effort into this brand new bike that it saddens me to get this type of result. Has anyone had this type of issue or see something I'm missing?
 
Hello @imageadio,
Thanks for your feedback. I had the same issue at first, the motor would alternate between off and on every 2-4 seconds. It felt like it was delivery enough power for the speed at which the bike was going but I was only going ~5km/h (3.11 mph). I corrected that issue by using Frey's smooth settings.
But then I got into another issue, the motor is not delivery any where near what it should be although it displaying +500 watts of power. Super weird. It's almost like the Eggrider or G510 controller is not measuring the correct current.
So here are my symptoms and steps I've tried in hope someone can help me out here.

The bike and components are brand new (except for throttle and one dcp10 display for test, I'll go over that later why that is case).
Battery 52V 40A. Bafang G510/M620 (52V version, not my settings, I bought as is.). Eggrider with latest version as of 23/11/2022. Programmed Frey's smooth settings via Eggrider and also USB.

Symptoms: Whether I'm in PAS 1 or 9, I get the exact same motor power output. It feels like maybe ~100-250W (max, probably less to be honest) of power from the motor but I get readings like ~+500W.
I tried to reset settings to stock, not much difference.
I tried to update the eggrider, no difference.
I tried Frey's settings again, no difference.
So I tried a friends throttle and things got weird. At first nothing was different, the motor power output was poor just like with pedaling. In desperation, I left the throttle full open and started to notice the motor would slowly and gradually output more and more REAL power and speed at which point the motor speed and power kinda spiked and stayed steady. This is when I let go of the throttle only to find the motor would not stop, some sort of cruise control like on some scooters. I had to power the bike to stop it.
When I turned the bike on, I went for another rider and got the same effect but this time I finally got REAL full power just like it should be (based on other bike builds with similar voltage & power specs). But it did not last. A high temperature error displayed on the Eggrider and cut the motor but I was on flat road. After a few minutes of cooling, I tried the bike again and got the same shitty low power I had since the beginning.
I tried a different display (DCP10). At first I still had the same low power. But for another brief moment, while the back wheel was in the air (on bike stand), I got full power. I thought to myself, at last it's working and put the bike down for a ride but nay, nothing had changed. I'm aware the running the motor in the air does not apply the same resistance that on the ground, but you could clearly tell there was a difference in power and speed just by observation.

I spent money, time and effort into this brand new bike that it saddens me to get this type of result. Has anyone had this type of issue or see something I'm missing?
I'm not sure I'm quite following you, but some things to check for off the top of my head: Check that the setting for designated assist on Throttle page is set to 9. Drop your limited current on the basic page from 30 to 28, make sure pedal settings are set to "by displays command" for Designated Assist and Speed Limit.
Also, check the Eggrider display settings that battery voltage is properly set up. You may be reaching voltage, current or speed cutoffs, have bad settings, or have a damaged controller or sensor.

I recommend posting your questions to the Eggrider Facebook Group and, since your bike is new, contacting the seller to see what they have to say.
 
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