Bafang 750 Watt, Integrated Wheel, Rear Hub Fat Bike Motor
harryS
Well-Known Member
Now that is something I've never seen with the LCD3 (I have five installed/working). If the motor is not connected, the Hall sensors don't work, and the display throws an error. In fact, the first time I ever spliced a motor cable, everything worked. Then I dressed the cable on the bike, and one of my solder connections broke. The LCD gave me an error.
LEt me ask this question. WIth no display connected, does the new KT controller's throttle run the bike?
@AHicks
@harryS
I didn't do that test yet, but I'd bet the throttle will power the motor even without the display.
- NEW throttle is engaging the motor when depressed, but nothing shows on display (not watts or mph).
- The only thing that reads on the display is the temp and battery voltage.
- The head lamp icon shows when I turn it on, but no actual power to light.
- The battery gauge shows number only, but battery icon remains empty.
- Yes, sorry PAS not PS.
@harryS
I didn't do that test yet, but I'd bet the throttle will power the motor even without the display.
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
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- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Congratulations! That's good news if the motor seems to be behaving normally right off the bat. That pretty much gets you over the "hump" as far as this conversion is concerned. Matching those wires leaves a lot of guys bewildered. The rest is much simpler. Sorry, but those test wires will not be necessary if your motor wiring is already matched. There COULD still be something going on, but clearly at least 6 of the 9 wires are set for sure, and more than likely all are.
What display did you get?
Sounds to me like it's time to get into the setup parameters before getting too much further. Your PAS could be disabled there for instance.
Speed set incorrectly, or disabled? You know I'm anticipating trouble here while coasting going into this.
Headlamp is no surprise as the KT controller is only able to supply a tiny amount of power and is easily overwhelmed. Normally that circuit is used to operate a relay that powers the head light. Don't push this function until you know more about it. This section of the controller board is easily smoked trying to run too much headlight directly.
There are 2 sets of parameters, both accessed by pushing the top and bottom buttons at the same time. The first set, accessed by pushing the 2 buttons within the first 15 seconds of being powered up, are the more advanced parameters. The second set of parameters are the more primary functions, and accessed after waiting for 30 seconds after power up. Go through those first.
If you didn't get a manual, do a google search for KT controller parameters looking for a 25 page or so .pdf file. Don't be real surprised by the fact the manuals are written in "Chinglish". That fact can make them pretty challenging. Newer controllers have 14 parameters I believe, make sure the manual has at least that many. Go right to the last pages of the manual to check the number of parameters. If less, it's an older manual. Keep looking. You might also look for some youtube videos, but those generally just cover the basics.
What display did you get?
Sounds to me like it's time to get into the setup parameters before getting too much further. Your PAS could be disabled there for instance.
Speed set incorrectly, or disabled? You know I'm anticipating trouble here while coasting going into this.
Headlamp is no surprise as the KT controller is only able to supply a tiny amount of power and is easily overwhelmed. Normally that circuit is used to operate a relay that powers the head light. Don't push this function until you know more about it. This section of the controller board is easily smoked trying to run too much headlight directly.
There are 2 sets of parameters, both accessed by pushing the top and bottom buttons at the same time. The first set, accessed by pushing the 2 buttons within the first 15 seconds of being powered up, are the more advanced parameters. The second set of parameters are the more primary functions, and accessed after waiting for 30 seconds after power up. Go through those first.
If you didn't get a manual, do a google search for KT controller parameters looking for a 25 page or so .pdf file. Don't be real surprised by the fact the manuals are written in "Chinglish". That fact can make them pretty challenging. Newer controllers have 14 parameters I believe, make sure the manual has at least that many. Go right to the last pages of the manual to check the number of parameters. If less, it's an older manual. Keep looking. You might also look for some youtube videos, but those generally just cover the basics.
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Yes, motor working, seems pretty normal sounding. I've got a pretty good idea on how to set the parameters, especially P1, P2. I watched a half hour video on it, and I posted the link on page seven of this thread. He really concentrated on Bafang 750, and showed both the LCD 3 and 8H, I have the 8H, much easier to navigate through the programming. I think PAS would have to be set to 0 to disable. I've been up and down from P's to C's (left L's alone as per instruction). I understand the 8H, seems like pretty basic stuff.
But here's what we're looking at now. I made my little clip connectors. Went with like colors, and nothing has changed. Motor works with throttle but nothing registers. The display is programmed properly. The little light that came with the controller and harness doesn't work.
PAS is still not connected.
UPDAte
Just connected PAS, no change.
So are motor phase wires good, just about sensor wires? Where do I start?
To answer @harryS's question, if you unplug the display, it cuts power, and nothing happens when you engage throttle.
When throttling or not, this is what I get
But here's what we're looking at now. I made my little clip connectors. Went with like colors, and nothing has changed. Motor works with throttle but nothing registers. The display is programmed properly. The little light that came with the controller and harness doesn't work.
PAS is still not connected.
UPDAte
Just connected PAS, no change.
So are motor phase wires good, just about sensor wires? Where do I start?
To answer @harryS's question, if you unplug the display, it cuts power, and nothing happens when you engage throttle.
When throttling or not, this is what I get
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AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
First, my experience is with the LCD3, like Harry has. As you' already know, it's a little different. I am not sure the parameter numbers from that line up directly on yours. That in mind,
No clue with any "L" values.
You know the display is programmed properly how? What makes you assume that's the case with the fact half of your display isn't working?
What are you using for P1 and P2?
P1 just calibrates the speedo. About anything here will allow it to work, right or wrong. P2 however, needs to be set correctly to get the speedo working
Why have you not yet connected the PAS sensor?
There's also gong to be an LVC setting (low voltage cut off). That will need to be set correctly as well. Check C12
There are parameters to set for the battery bar graph to read properly. Have you set those? You need to tell the controller you have a 52v battery, not a 36 or 48v. Find that setting in the parameters and set it properly. P5 maybe?
No clue with any "L" values.
You know the display is programmed properly how? What makes you assume that's the case with the fact half of your display isn't working?
What are you using for P1 and P2?
P1 just calibrates the speedo. About anything here will allow it to work, right or wrong. P2 however, needs to be set correctly to get the speedo working
Why have you not yet connected the PAS sensor?
There's also gong to be an LVC setting (low voltage cut off). That will need to be set correctly as well. Check C12
There are parameters to set for the battery bar graph to read properly. Have you set those? You need to tell the controller you have a 52v battery, not a 36 or 48v. Find that setting in the parameters and set it properly. P5 maybe?
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
That's jumping to conclusions without some pretty thorough testing. Unless you saw something you aren't sharing. Did you short something out?
Get that multi meter out and follow the power, starting from the battery. Power at throttle? Power at the tiny red and black wires where your jumpers are with the throttle on?
I hooked up the stock set up... still dead. I didn't see anything, but maybe caught a whiff or faint order. No heat at any location, wires, controller, motor. I was switching one wire at a time when this happened.
Now, on stock (addmotor stock) set up, When I throttle, I see a surge in watts that immediately cuts out. All *accessories* work (horn, light).
Pretty bummed, my ride / hobby is OOS for the duration. I'm sure I'll fix it as some point, but right now I'm bike-less, and during this unusual time, I had become addicted to riding. If I can get out of this funk, I'll get the multimeter out, but I really think there's juice everywhere except the motor.
If the motor is burnt out, I'd like to get an integrated, rear hub, fat tire, with controller, 1000 watt if at all possible. Wish I had something to ride, I really wouldn't care about any hold ups.
Now, on stock (addmotor stock) set up, When I throttle, I see a surge in watts that immediately cuts out. All *accessories* work (horn, light).
Pretty bummed, my ride / hobby is OOS for the duration. I'm sure I'll fix it as some point, but right now I'm bike-less, and during this unusual time, I had become addicted to riding. If I can get out of this funk, I'll get the multimeter out, but I really think there's juice everywhere except the motor.
If the motor is burnt out, I'd like to get an integrated, rear hub, fat tire, with controller, 1000 watt if at all possible. Wish I had something to ride, I really wouldn't care about any hold ups.
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harryS
Well-Known Member
I never had to fiddle with the phase wires, switching them methodically to make a motor work. And I don't know why you ventured down this path when the motor worked,
endless-sphere.com
One thing someone should have told you ... don't apply full power when doing so, Some wire combos will draw a lot of current and do nothing except go kaboom. From the above link.
" When testing unknown wiring combinations, it is important to somehow limit the current that the controller can get during testing. If one wire is out of place, the current in the controller could be very high and cause the controller to blow. Testing with the batteries connected to directly to the controller is very risky. "
How to Determine the Wiring for a Brushless Motor
When experimenting or using parts from different sources, we frequently find the color codes on brushless motors and controllers do not correspond correctly. Just because the right colors are present does not mean they will match correctly, though that would be a good first guess. Most...
endless-sphere.com
One thing someone should have told you ... don't apply full power when doing so, Some wire combos will draw a lot of current and do nothing except go kaboom. From the above link.
" When testing unknown wiring combinations, it is important to somehow limit the current that the controller can get during testing. If one wire is out of place, the current in the controller could be very high and cause the controller to blow. Testing with the batteries connected to directly to the controller is very risky. "
Risky business for sure. Motor is done. I tapped the throttle, not full power for each test. I really didn't switch phase wires, I made one phase wire switch and got nothing and immediately switched to sensor wires. It stopped working while switching sensor wires.
Then I decided to test the motor with the old set up from Addmotor. The motor is still dead (throttle and PA). Lights and horn work. The display will show about 300 watts then cut out when I throttle. Damn... I'm into this bike over $2500 so I have no choice but to fix it, even if I eventually let it go.
And who knows if the KT controller blew, but we know the Addmotor controller works, so that's telling me, motor is done.
I already started searching for a new integrated hub motor, I can tell it's not gonna be so easy to find one for this bike. I really learned lots in this process, and appreciate the help, but this has been quite the costly endeavor. Like I said, if I had my new ride, and this was just a side hobby, I really would have tons of patience. Now I can't think of anything but getting back on the road while it's still summer.
While waiting this out, I decided to switch my August pre-order to a July order at Rize. I went to the Rize X, 26 inch rear hub 750 watt fat tire, that'll give me 28 mph outta the box with more stealth and many more options than the Blade.
If I play my cards right, this will transfer over to the wife. Either way, getting the M-7 back on the road is now my project, as the *new* new bike will be here this month, and if my wife likes it, the 1000 watt Blade for me in August / Sept.
Then I decided to test the motor with the old set up from Addmotor. The motor is still dead (throttle and PA). Lights and horn work. The display will show about 300 watts then cut out when I throttle. Damn... I'm into this bike over $2500 so I have no choice but to fix it, even if I eventually let it go.
And who knows if the KT controller blew, but we know the Addmotor controller works, so that's telling me, motor is done.
I already started searching for a new integrated hub motor, I can tell it's not gonna be so easy to find one for this bike. I really learned lots in this process, and appreciate the help, but this has been quite the costly endeavor. Like I said, if I had my new ride, and this was just a side hobby, I really would have tons of patience. Now I can't think of anything but getting back on the road while it's still summer.
While waiting this out, I decided to switch my August pre-order to a July order at Rize. I went to the Rize X, 26 inch rear hub 750 watt fat tire, that'll give me 28 mph outta the box with more stealth and many more options than the Blade.
If I play my cards right, this will transfer over to the wife. Either way, getting the M-7 back on the road is now my project, as the *new* new bike will be here this month, and if my wife likes it, the 1000 watt Blade for me in August / Sept.
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AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Look into testing the phase windings and the more likely phase sensors. You may find you can identify the bad motor part - or prove there's nothing wrong with it! Decent ohm meter in hand, they are not terribly difficult to diagnose pretty accurately.
Point being, all is not lost here with the motor you have....
Point being, all is not lost here with the motor you have....
Not really sure what I should be searching for, but I found this. My motor is built into the wheel, and I've never removed a rear wheel on an elctric rear hub motor bike before. Anything special about disassembling that I need to know. At this point, I've got nothing to lose, so I'm will to do anything to get this thing going, but the first thing to consider is gaining access to the actual motor.
and searching endless sphere just delivers a sea of info that doesn't apply...
www.electricalengineeringtoolbox.com
gesrepair.com
Lots of info, not sure what applies. And if any tests come up positive, I'm not sure I'd know how to proceed.
In the meantime, I've been on the Addmotor website, and have contacted their support on a replacement rear hub motor / wheel. I may have to cut my losses, repair, and just sell it. Hope not, but I wanna know my options.
and searching endless sphere just delivers a sea of info that doesn't apply...
How to Test a 3 Phase Motor Windings With an Ohmmeter
A blog About Learning Electrical Engineering
How to Check Motor Winding With Multimeter | GES
1. Set your multimeter to 0hms. 2. Disconnect the spindle motor from all power sources. Learn more about how to test motor windings from GES here!
gesrepair.com
Lots of info, not sure what applies. And if any tests come up positive, I'm not sure I'd know how to proceed.
In the meantime, I've been on the Addmotor website, and have contacted their support on a replacement rear hub motor / wheel. I may have to cut my losses, repair, and just sell it. Hope not, but I wanna know my options.
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AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
For starters, I would want to confirm the motor IS bad first. The way to do that would be to identify exactly what part let go. Next, answer the question "is it repairable". NO ASSUMPTIONS!
And no, answering these questions is not something you are going to learn how to do in 5 minutes.
Further, the motors come apart without having to remove them from the wheel.
Even in a new motor scenario, with an exact replacement motor, you can use the laced up part (armature) over again. You just slide the old guts out, and slide the new one in......
And no, answering these questions is not something you are going to learn how to do in 5 minutes.
Further, the motors come apart without having to remove them from the wheel.
Even in a new motor scenario, with an exact replacement motor, you can use the laced up part (armature) over again. You just slide the old guts out, and slide the new one in......
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