Are all Bosch mid-drive systems Class 1 only and... is that good or bad?

[Bee]

Hi, I've previously posted about our Cube Town Sport on the Cube board, but I think I should post something here that is actually more about Bosch? It's a point of interest, I think, for EVERYONE considering a Bosch mid-drive system, which is, even if you change out to the very latest head unit or even a linked smartphone, you will always be stuck in Class 1, i.e. pedal-assist only.

My wife blew out her knee and needs replacement surgery. She won't be able to pedal for a long time. We tried to go out for a ride today, just wanting to spend time in nature and great weather together while using very little effort or pedaling on her part, just to see if we could. We were expecting to just use it in throttle only mode (Class 2), but found that it doesn't have that! You always must pedal. We could only go a few hundred yards before it hurt too much for her.

I went to the Bosch site and looked at head units and was surprised to find that, as far as I can tell, they are ALL Class 1. I read the manuals for all the head units, smartphone units, and drive units (easier than it sounds, there's like 1 page each on power/assist levels) and, as far as I can find, they do not support a throttle mode (Class 2) at all! If I am correct about this (PLEASE correct me, I'd LOVE to be wrong about this because then maybe I could upgrade her bike), this means we bought into a serious commitment to a style of ebiking that does NOT include throttle/power only for when you can't or don't want to move one or more legs. This may work well for some, but, for others, especially those building their fitness from a medically deconditioned state like my wife, this could be a very poor choice.

From what I've seen here on the Sprinwater Trail, from the amazing increase in users on ebikes and who these riders appear to be... there is a significant portion who are people who previously could not or likely would not choose to bicycle because of physical difficulties. eBiking appears to be making this recreational and fitness opportunity far more approachable, something that someone with any level of fitness can use as a starting point to work up from, even to recover their health from a place where it has been very poor, even for a very long time. That's GREAT! Even elderly folks like us can now get on a bike, enjoy the sun and breeze and exercise just as much as we can, and maybe then a little more tomorrow...

I've found, as I get older, various parts break down from time to time (let me TELL you... ) and need a gentle re-introduction to activity before a return to full on monster mode, a break, a time to heal, some gentle therapy and stretching with out so much exertion. We may need to start slow, lest we over-exert and end up reinjuring a healing muscle or tendon or joint, or even making it worse. We might end up laid up or even unable or unwilling to get back on the bike later. For those times when we need to be very gentle with ourselves and work our way back into the saddle, or when we just want to enjoy the outdoors together while one rides a regular bike and the other ebikes, even when one of us is partially disabled... a Class 2 eBike would be a great choice, but a Class 1 only system like the Bosch... may be a big mistake? I am not sure if this is a limitation of all mid-drive systems or just Bosch, but I think there are mid-drives offering class 2 and maybe even class 3, right?

I would LOVE to hear from anyone who knows how to convert the Bosch to Class 2 with perhaps a new head unit (3rd party?), but also want to discuss this idea of Class 1 only represented in the Bosch, because, if I'm right, a lot of people looking at ebikes right now should probably steer clear of Bosch?

 

[McCorby]

Bosch offers class 3 as well. Just no class 2.

 

[fooferdoggie]

bosch speed motors do class 3 I have two of them. you can ride the bike with very little effort no more then walking if you use turbo and spin lightly I do that when I am really sick.
the (head unit) has nothing to do with it. the class of your motor is what it was designed to put out. there are plenty of class 3 bosch powered bikes and all the bike stores here in Portland.
you cant add a throttle no matter what. Most people I see on e-bikes in portland if they are no mid drives here using the throttle or just ghost peddling.
I can keep my heart rate around 90 if I am sick and still go fast enough. you can get a device to bypass the 20mph speed limit of the class one motor but it will mean you have to put more effort into it to go faster.

 

[indianajo]

Fbecause, if I'm right, a lot of people looking at ebikes right now should probably steer clear of Bosch?

I keep saying that. I looked into ebikes in 2017 because I needed some way to get home if I twisted my knee out at my country property. I'm a US Army vet, VietNam era knees, cartilage pounded out. After I twist my kee I can't hardly walk for a week. I pedaled 27 miles out to country & back without power normally (before covid19) but needed some way to ride without pedaling when injured. Answer, a geared hub motor with throttle & PAS. An electric wheelchair is not feasible, won't negotiate the ditches beside the country roads and not enough range. Taxi is not feasible, I had no cellphone service out there in 2017 and there are no street signs.
I hated the PAS & deleted the pickup, it went way to fast level 1 and whacked my standing leg in the back if I try to wind pedal up to take off. I apologize to people in Poland where ebike throttle is illegal, but I don't feel like a drug dealer or murderer when I ride home without pedaling some weeks. A huge battery helps; I have 875 wh.

 

[6zfshdb]

I keep saying that. I looked into ebikes in 2017 because I needed some way to get home if I twisted my knee out at my country property. I'm a US Army vet, VietNam era knees, cartilage pounded out. After I twist my kee I can't hardly walk for a week. I pedaled 27 miles out to country & back without power normally (before covid19) but needed some way to ride without pedaling when injured. Answer, a geared hub motor with throttle & PAS. An electric wheelchair is not feasible, won't negotiate the ditches beside the country roads and not enough range. Taxi is not feasible, I had no cellphone service out there in 2017 and there are no street signs.
I hated the PAS & deleted the pickup, it went way to fast level 1 and whacked my standing leg in the back if I try to wind pedal up to take off. I apologize to people in Poland where ebike throttle is illegal, but I don't feel like a drug dealer or murderer when I ride home without pedaling some weeks. A huge battery helps; I have 875 wh.

I ride with the same knee as well as hip issues. The throttle has saved my bacon twice so far. I know they aren't for everyone but I'm now at the point where I don't dare ride without one.

Where I ride, I'm also faced with the possibility of being stranded without cell service or a way home. I now use a Garmin GPS with their Inreach service. It's a satellite based text communicator with near global coverage. It's a subscription service but for me, well worth the price.

 

[AHicks]

It seems like you have some concerns regarding the Bosch mid-drive system and its limitations in terms of pedal-assist modes. While I can provide some general information, it's important to note that specific details and compatibility may vary depending on the exact model and version of the Bosch system you have. I'll address your points based on the information you provided:

1. Throttle mode (Class 2): You mentioned that you were looking for a throttle-only mode (Class 2) for situations when pedaling may not be possible or desired. It's true that Bosch mid-drive systems typically operate in pedal-assist mode (Class 1), where the motor provides assistance as you pedal. However, Bosch does offer different levels of assistance that you can adjust through the control unit. While throttle-only operation is not a standard feature in Bosch systems, some e-bike manufacturers may offer aftermarket solutions or modifications that could potentially add a throttle function. However, it's essential to consult with a qualified e-bike technician or contact Bosch directly to inquire about any available options or compatibility for your specific model.
2. Other mid-drive systems: There are other mid-drive systems on the market that offer different classes of pedal-assist modes, including Class 2 and Class 3. These systems may have a throttle option or provide higher levels of motor assistance. Examples of mid-drive motor manufacturers include Shimano, Brose, Yamaha, and Bafang. If having a throttle-only mode is a crucial requirement for you, exploring e-bikes equipped with these alternative mid-drive systems might be worth considering.

It's important to thoroughly research and test different e-bike models and motor systems before making a purchase. Each system has its own features, advantages, and limitations, and choosing the right one depends on individual preferences, needs, and local regulations.

As for converting a Bosch mid-drive system to Class 2, it's best to consult with an authorized Bosch e-bike dealer or an experienced e-bike technician. They can provide specific guidance on whether it's possible to modify the system and if there are any aftermarket solutions available.

Remember, this information is based on general knowledge about e-bike systems, and it's always recommended to consult with experts or the manufacturer directly for accurate and up-to-date information regarding your specific e-bike model and components.

A throttle equipped Bosch drive is wishful thinking. They don't exist. It's that simple.
To my knowledge, there is no "throttle only" mode in throttle assisted production bikes. They ALL feature PAS as well. It's YOUR CALL what you want to use and how you want to use it.....
As far as throttle equipped mid drive bikes, those will be powered by Bafang motors, though they do have a new model, not in production yet, that does not have a throttle available. None of the others production bikes (non-Bafang) have a throttle available.

 

[harryS]

It's both good and bad, In this case, becasue your wife needs a throttle, it's bad. Pick up an inexpensive class 2 bike for the interim.

 

[mschwett]

It seems like you have some concerns regarding the Bosch mid-drive system and its limitations in terms of pedal-assist modes. While I can provide some general information, it's important to note that specific details and compatibility may vary depending on the exact model and version of the Bosch system you have. I'll address your points based on the information you provided:

1. Throttle mode (Class 2): You mentioned that you were looking for a throttle-only mode (Class 2) for situations when pedaling may not be possible or desired. It's true that Bosch mid-drive systems typically operate in pedal-assist mode (Class 1), where the motor provides assistance as you pedal. However, Bosch does offer different levels of assistance that you can adjust through the control unit. While throttle-only operation is not a standard feature in Bosch systems, some e-bike manufacturers may offer aftermarket solutions or modifications that could potentially add a throttle function. However, it's essential to consult with a qualified e-bike technician or contact Bosch directly to inquire about any available options or compatibility for your specific model.
2. Other mid-drive systems: There are other mid-drive systems on the market that offer different classes of pedal-assist modes, including Class 2 and Class 3. These systems may have a throttle option or provide higher levels of motor assistance. Examples of mid-drive motor manufacturers include Shimano, Brose, Yamaha, and Bafang. If having a throttle-only mode is a crucial requirement for you, exploring e-bikes equipped with these alternative mid-drive systems might be worth considering.

It's important to thoroughly research and test different e-bike models and motor systems before making a purchase. Each system has its own features, advantages, and limitations, and choosing the right one depends on individual preferences, needs, and local regulations.

As for converting a Bosch mid-drive system to Class 2, it's best to consult with an authorized Bosch e-bike dealer or an experienced e-bike technician. They can provide specific guidance on whether it's possible to modify the system and if there are any aftermarket solutions available.

Remember, this information is based on general knowledge about e-bike systems, and it's always recommended to consult with experts or the manufacturer directly for accurate and up-to-date information regarding your specific e-bike model and components.

Please don’t post AI generated text without attributing it.

 

[Asher]

Lol how could one write a thread that's so obviously wrong.

 

[rich c]

I'm nearing my 71st birthday and still see no need for a throttle. You can't add or convert any Bosch equipment to use a throttle.

 

[JRA]

"As far as throttle equipped mid drive bikes, those will be powered by Bafang motors"

Not necessarily true. In fact right in the OP's hometown there is a shop called Portland Electric Cycles that sells an affordable bike with a 48v TruckRun mid drive with torque sensing and a throttle.

 

[fooferdoggie]

"As far as throttle equipped mid drive bikes, those will be powered by Bafang motors"

Not necessarily true. In fact right in the OP's hometown there is a shop called Portland Electric Cycles that sells an affordable bike with a 48v TruckRun mid drive with torque sensing and a throttle.

also dapu that was my first bike worked ok but man it sucked the juice compared to my bosch.

 

[Kayakguy]

A throttle equipped Bosch drive is wishful thinking. They don't exist. It's that simple.
To my knowledge, there is no "throttle only" mode in throttle assisted production bikes. They ALL feature PAS as well. It's YOUR CALL what you want to use and how you want to use it.....
As far as throttle equipped mid drive bikes, those will be powered by Bafang motors, though they do have a new model, not in production yet, that does not have a throttle available. None of the others production bikes (non-Bafang) have a throttle available.

My Ariel Rider C class step thru uses a Tongsheng motor with a throttle, but the throttle only works in non-pas mode (pas has to be set at 0). Normally I do want to pedal with pas, so don't use the throttle, except when walking the bike up a hill, though it is somewhat hard to keep the throttle at just the right amount of boost. It wants to pull away from me if I give it too much throttle. Fortunately, I rarely have to use it in that mode.

 

[peterh_nz]

Please don’t post AI generated text without attributing it.

Yes, preferably with the attribution at the top.

But then why use AI on this forum anyway, where personal experience and opinion are fundamental?

 

[AHicks]

"As far as throttle equipped mid drive bikes, those will be powered by Bafang motors"

Not necessarily true. In fact right in the OP's hometown there is a shop called Portland Electric Cycles that sells an affordable bike with a 48v TruckRun mid drive with torque sensing and a throttle.

I did mention I was talking about production bikes? There are several pretty popular custom mid drive motors, not generally used on production bikes, that have the ability to have throttles added. Most notably the TSDZ2 for example? I know there are others as well, but was trying not to confuse the issue....

 

[ElevenAD]

The easiest solution is to sell your Bosch powered bike and use the funds to purchase a middrive that is equipped with a throttle.
May i suggest upgrading to a Bafang middrive!? Anything with a Bafang 600 should get you close to a Bosch CX in performance and you get throttle.
If Bafangs is not for you Dapu and Tongsheng come with throttles and if your savvy you can add a throttle to a Truckrun middrive, i don't recommend the Truckrun option.

 

[Kayakguy]

A throttle equipped Bosch drive is wishful thinking. They don't exist. It's that simple.
To my knowledge, there is no "throttle only" mode in throttle assisted production bikes. They ALL feature PAS as well. It's YOUR CALL what you want to use and how you want to use it.....
As far as throttle equipped mid drive bikes, those will be powered by Bafang motors, though they do have a new model, not in production yet, that does not have a throttle available. None of the others production bikes (non-Bafang) have a throttle available.

My Ariel Rider C class has a Tongsheng motor that is Class 2. The throttle does not work when using PAS. PAS must be set to 0 in order for the throttle to work. Which is why I never use it.

 

[Kayakguy]

Please don’t post AI generated text without attributing it.

I didn't realize it would be so easy to spot AI generated text. It's like talking to an effing robot at customer assistance. When I'm not sure, I ask, "Are you a robot or a human?" But now I'm starting to wonder if AI couldn't be programmed to lie about that.

 

[mschwett]

I didn't realize it would be so easy to spot AI generated text. It's like talking to an effing robot at customer assistance. When I'm not sure, I ask, "Are you a robot or a human?" But now I'm starting to wonder if AI couldn't be programmed to lie about that.

it actually doesn’t need to be programmed to lie about that, it just does. modern AI aren’t exactly “programmed,” they’re taught with large data sets of images or text that was generated by humans.

there’s a well known case where a fairly standard AI passed one of those annoying captchas by hiring a human taskrabbit to do it for them

 

[w4clm]

Bee, just a few thoughts here in regards to your wife's knee, she won't be out of commission as long as you may think. I rode a TREK E.Police Bike with a class three motor across country riding just about the entire route of old Route 66 in 2019 doing 50 to 70 miles a day. We had no interest in going to Chicago because we had to cut east at Cape Girardeau, Missouri making our way back home to our home near Atlanta. We started in Santa Monica Ca and rode to St Louis, 2,200 miles and two months into the ride my knees started burning. I later found out it's diagnosed as RUNNER'S knee from excessive use. Took us two and a half months to make this epic bucket list ride. Frist thing I did after getting home was go to the doctor, had X-rays and found out my cartilage was gone in my left knee and almost gone int he right. I was riding bone on bone, therefore I had a left knee replacement. In my opinion this is a horrific and a painful surgery, but I eventually came back from it. Even now three years later the knee still hurts from time to time, but I'm back riding both a traditional Domane SL6 and an e.bike. One of the first things they want you to do after surgery is rehab and a big part of that is cycling. I had the surgery in February of 2020 and I was making short rides three months later by May of 2020. In an effort to cut this short I will say this, cycling is good medicine for cardiovascular and so much more. I like the E.bike especially if coming off a period of convalescence. You have to keep moving in this life and that means pedaling (not using a class 2 throttle) be it riding a trainer in the house or a class 1 ebike on the trail, makes no difference, JUST MOVE. Personally speaking I bounce back and forth between my various bikes with my favorite bike still being my traditional Domane or my e.bike. on longer rides.