Apples to Apples? Bosch vs. Bafang Ultra

[fooferdoggie]

Why would you buy an ebike and not use the power ? You're missing the point again. These tires in town work great at absorbing potholes ,cracks, etc. Don't judge until you've tried one.

because I want to go faster, farther and climb hills better then my body will let me. but I also want to get a workout. I did not buy a e bike to become a mobile couch potato. so does my suspension fork and seat post. but I am not bogged down by all that fatness and weight. I don't need a huge battery get me around. Since I am not buying a bike online I doubt I will have one to try. but I know what I like in a bike I have ridden a crapload of miles.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I only wonder how much would my Giant weigh if both the suspension fork and rear damper were removed, as the whole bike now weighs 53 lbs...

 

[fooferdoggie]

I only wonder how much would my Giant weigh if both the suspension fork and rear damper were removed, as the whole bike now weighs 53 lbs...

ya not sure on my fork is a spring fork. I like the air fork on our tandem a lot more. my bike was built for fast commuting. it does the job really well. I get 20+ miles a day on it.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@fooferdoggie: There is something odd. My commuter e-bike came with fixed fork. The e-MTB has air sus fork and air damper. My hub-drive touring e-bike has now a Rock Shox Paragol Gold RL air sus fork. Each of these e-bikes is 53 lbs. How come? (Wondering about the weight of TForan's scooter. Same 53 lbs?)

 

[TForan]

because I want to go faster, farther and climb hills better then my body will let me. but I also want to get a workout. I did not buy a e bike to become a mobile couch potato. so does my suspension fork and seat post. but I am not bogged down by all that fatness and weight. I don't need a huge battery get me around. Since I am not buying a bike online I doubt I will have one to try. but I know what I like in a bike I have ridden a crapload of miles.

No, you don't know until you try one. Everybody who rides it, comes back laughing. Bogged down ? LOL! hardly. It weighs 52 without a battery because it's a long wheelbase big bike for big boys. Very stable and quick too.

 

[fooferdoggie]

No, you don't know until you try one. Everybody who rides it, comes back laughing. Bogged down ? LOL! hardly. It weighs 52 without a battery because it's a long wheelbase big bike for big boys. Very stable and quick too.

ya try it with the lowest level of assist or no assist. then come tell me how how it is not bogged down. I want a bike that performs under me. I bought a bike designed to be a very fast commuter bike with great hydraulic brakes that's nimble that only weights 52 pounds with the battery. I wish it was lighter but that's a whole different bike. I put a ton of moles on it and it is a very well built bike. I ride in traffic day and night and in the rain at night.

 

[TForan]

ya try it with the lowest level of assist or no assist. then come tell me how how it is not bogged down. I want a bike that performs under me. I bought a bike designed to be a very fast commuter bike with great hydraulic brakes that's nimble that only weights 52 pounds with the battery. I wish it was lighter but that's a whole different bike. I put a ton of moles on it and it is a very well built bike. I ride in traffic day and night and in the rain at night.

Once again, why would I want to use no assist ? I ride quickly through town , where it's important to keep up with traffic , which is no problem with this bike. You have to ride aggressively and so carefully with all the older people on the road. I want and really need the power for safety and fun.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Once again, why would I want to use no assist ? I ride quickly through town , where it's important to keep up with traffic , which is no problem with this bike. You have to ride aggressively and so carefully with all the older people on the road. I want and really need the power for safety and fun.

well it is called exercise? I ride on the road and have done so for years. like I said I commute and have commuted for years I think I know what its like to ride in traffic. myself I think you just like to go fast without much effort thats fine but I want to go fast and work at it. plus I want a responsive bike and a large wheelbase and fat tires are not responsive and yes I have ridden such bikes. one was more powerful then mine though the tires were only 2.5" my current bike is a much better bike for me. I have commuted on a road bike and on recumbents on on e scooters and now on e bikes. 9.5 miles each way no less. I was going 23 mph on tour assist level thats ne next lowest level.

 

[Alaskan]

well it is called exercise? I ride on the road and have done so for years. like I said I commute and have commuted for years I think I know what its like to ride in traffic. myself I think you just like to go fast without much effort thats fine but I want to go fast and work at it. plus I want a responsive bike and a large wheelbase and fat tires are not responsive and yes I have ridden such bikes. one was more powerful then mine though the tires were only 2.5" my current bike is a much better bike for me. I have commuted on a road bike and on recumbents on on e scooters and now on e bikes. 9.5 miles each way no less. I was going 23 mph on tour assist level thats ne next lowest level.

That is putting out some personal watts! On a 30 -40 mile ride, I average 18mph in Tour on my Bosch speed motor. I can sustain 20-22 mph for several miles but that is putting out at least 150 watts on a steady basis. This is the kind of joyous workout that boosts your endorphins and tunes up your heart. To get the maximum benefit of riding a bike, every ride should encompass a shot of this level of exercise, where possible. I would say that 25% of my rides are at this level and the balance is around 80 watts.

 

[fooferdoggie]

That is putting out some personal watts! On a 30 -40 mile ride, I average 18mph in Tour on my Bosch speed motor. I can sustain 20-22 mph for several miles but that is putting out at least 150 watts on a steady basis. This is the kind of joyous workout that boosts your endorphins and tunes up your heart. To get the maximum benefit of riding a bike, every ride should encompass a shot of this level of exercise, where possible.

on a really good day I can sustain 190. but the problem is tour you have to go so fast to get your heart rate up like 23+ the problem on eco I loose about 2mph average but get more of a workout. I need to drop tour down or raise eco up a bit. working as hard as I did n this ride I would have averaged 18+ mph on all tour.

 

[Alaskan]

Impressive numbers. Clearly you are among the rare birds who ride ebikes to enhance their already commendable performance and fitness on acoustic bikes. As I turn 70 next month and have to keep my heart rate down per doctor's orders, I would not even try to keep up with you on the same assist level, but I could dial mine up to keep pace and still get the appropriate level of exercise for my age and condition. Therein lies the genius of ebikes!

 

[fooferdoggie]

Impressive numbers. Clearly you are among the rare birds who ride ebikes to enhance their already commendable performance and fitness on acoustic bikes. As I turn 70 next month and have to keep my heart rate down per doctor's orders, I would not even try to keep up with you on the same assist level, but I could dial mine up to keep pace and still get the appropriate level of exercise for my age and condition. Therein lies the genius of ebikes!

I worked my ass off to get that usually I do maybe 159 average watts. but I have to exercise to be healthy my health sucks if I don't exercise and the e bike is my best method. How else could I exercise 2+ house a day otherwise?

 

[webcurl]

Once again, why would I want to use no assist ? I ride quickly through town , where it's important to keep up with traffic , which is no problem with this bike. You have to ride aggressively and so carefully with all the older people on the road. I want and really need the power for safety and fun.

Sounds like you might be better off with a Stealth B-52

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[Stefan Mikes]

It weighs 52 without a battery

Aha, without the battery So, how much is it with the battery?

 

[onlineaddy]

Pull up your pants and put the tape measures away. Sheesh! Just go out and ride your bikes, will you all?!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I currently ride a bike powered by the Bafang Ultra - 1000 w of power. It's a monster, and it gets my oldish, biggish self up the mountains where I ride - my typical ride days are a slow climb up 10 miles of fire road to the top of one of the Cascade foothills, taking in the view, and then zooming back down. But I look longingly at rigs like a Kenovo and love their true mtb soul - but balk when I think of the total power of the Bosch. I hear that the Bosch motors convert their power ultra efficiently, but I still have concerns that all of the Bosch clones just don't have the beef to get me to the top. So my question is: is comparing these two motors true apples to apples, just looking at numbers? Or is there more to the picture that I am not seeing?

Thanks in advance, all.

I need, however, to ask all participants of this thread to come back on topic.

John wanted to compare his powerful pedal e-motorcycle based on (technically illegal) Bafang motor to "class" e-bikes based on mid-drive 250 W (nominal) motors like Bosch (Shimano, Brose/Specialized, Yamaha/Giant). His concern was whether such e-bike would allow him climbing hills in Cascades via fire-roads.

The definitive answer is YES.

Powerful "monsters" rely on the motor power and a large battery, making them heavy. The "Euro" type of mid-drive e-bikes sold in the North American market are lightweight as for e-bike, are equipped with quite lightweight battery, sport high peak power and offer high torque, allow long range riding, are capable to climb any hill, are reliable and are supported properly by the LBS. Period.

@John Thompson was referring to Specialized Turbo Kenevo. In my opinion, the Kenevo is "too much of e-bike" for the OP's purposes. That's an Enduro e-bike, with main functionality to make downhill rides fast and possibly safe (with some jumps involved). My feeling is John would be well off with a Trail e-MTB from a respected manufacturer. Turbo Levo Comp comes to my mind as the e-MTB Holy Grail, or, the latest Giant Trance X E+ 29 Pro for better value for money. Both e-bikes sport the most powerful motors in the class with proper gearing, offer the geometry appropriate for mountain riding, have excellent brakes, and are fully suspended. Add to it wide, grippy tires.

I think I have answered the OP's question and don't want to say anything more.



Specialized Turbo Levo Comp


Giant Trance X E+ Pro 1 29

 

[TForan]

Aha, without the battery So, how much is it with the battery?

62 lbs . 48volt 21Ah battery. About 10 lbs lighter than a Stromer St3, so not too heavy.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Mobile couch ? Now you aren't making any sense at all. You seem to fail to realize, that you don't have to use the power all the time but it is there when needed. Like quickly getting through an intersection.

I get a huge kick out of hearing you need a lot of power to get through an intersection. If you know how to use your gears any decent bike will get through. I learned on my recumbent to shift often and I can get through an intersection and hit 18mph by the time I do either on e bike or non e bike. I think millions of people have gotten through intersections just fine without a e bike.

 

[TForan]

I get a huge kick out of hearing you need a lot of power to get through an intersection. If you know how to use your gears any decent bike will get through. I learned on my recumbent to shift often and I can get through an intersection and hit 18mph by the time I do either on e bike or non e bike. I think millions of people have gotten through intersections just fine without a e bike.

Once again, ride first and then judge. What motor did Pushkar use on his Watts Wagon ? I wonder why he would use that over powered monster motor. Any ideas ?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

bout 10 lbs lighter than a Stromer St3, so not too heavy.

Stromer is a Direct Drive hub motor one. Not a mid drive.