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Browneye
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I agree with this. And it's gonna be more like for the next two or three years. The so-called experts are killing the country. I can see a civil war in the makings.
The rest of what you write has too many 'shoulds'. We know, you're one of those 'should' people, 'shoulding' us to death. That is simply a personality trait, we get it. Except that's not how the real world works, unfortunately.
Browneye
Well-Known Member
This is what we deal with in the next county over....from last weekend. LAPD called to shut down over 40 people gathered for a one-year old's birthday party.
And why we call it 'living behind the orange curtain'. Our neighbor up the street retired recently, 40 years with sheriff or PD vice, I can't recall. He just shakes his head. And drinks a LOT of beer. He makes me look like an amateur.
And why we call it 'living behind the orange curtain'. Our neighbor up the street retired recently, 40 years with sheriff or PD vice, I can't recall. He just shakes his head. And drinks a LOT of beer. He makes me look like an amateur.
D
Deleted member 4210
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I learned a lot from this video discussion between two doctors who have studied this Covid-19 extensively.
You can draw your own conclusions, but understanding how this virus spreads will quite possibly help you decide how you want to protect yourself and others.
I'm not going to criticize our government or other officials at this point, and not waste any energy at all worrying about what could have been done differently.
The economic consequences of this situation are impossible to grasp, or forecast. It's rather grim right now for a lot of people who have lost their jobs, and many might be permanent losses, but considering also how many businesses might not ever re- open again is too dark to contemplate. How we do business and live in this world will be changed and possibly in ways we can't yet envision.
So it's just take it one day at a time, and learn to adapt quicker to more uncertainty. Good luck and stay healthy everyone, and help those that you can to stay healthy too. A lot of positives can and likely will emerge from something this wide spread and daunting. Each day I try to imagine what new silver lining might come about from this. I do know for sure that I enjoy the sight of so many people outside walking , biking, and even it seems more families doing things together, even if they are '6 feet apart.'. Fewer cars is rather eery. Sometimes it's almost like some sort of Armageddon has occurred.
You can draw your own conclusions, but understanding how this virus spreads will quite possibly help you decide how you want to protect yourself and others.
I'm not going to criticize our government or other officials at this point, and not waste any energy at all worrying about what could have been done differently.
The economic consequences of this situation are impossible to grasp, or forecast. It's rather grim right now for a lot of people who have lost their jobs, and many might be permanent losses, but considering also how many businesses might not ever re- open again is too dark to contemplate. How we do business and live in this world will be changed and possibly in ways we can't yet envision.
So it's just take it one day at a time, and learn to adapt quicker to more uncertainty. Good luck and stay healthy everyone, and help those that you can to stay healthy too. A lot of positives can and likely will emerge from something this wide spread and daunting. Each day I try to imagine what new silver lining might come about from this. I do know for sure that I enjoy the sight of so many people outside walking , biking, and even it seems more families doing things together, even if they are '6 feet apart.'. Fewer cars is rather eery. Sometimes it's almost like some sort of Armageddon has occurred.
Mr. Coffee
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I can understand your point of view. Unfortunately, I think it is reasonable to expect that elected officials and government employees do their jobs. It is also reasonable that taxpaying citizens loudly complain when they aren't. If I recall there was something in the constitution about that.
Expertise is a funny thing in 2020. I doubt any person who was not a complete nut would represent themselves in court if they were falsely accused of murder. Or perform an appendectomy on themselves. There is also the challenge that very few people alive remember when we had an analogous situation, and even then the particulars are different enough that the applicability of the 1918 Spanish Flu experience isn't necessarily relevant. There are also a lot of people with impressive titles and credentials that don't necessarily have relevant expertise. Right now the people I would pay attention to are epidemiologists and infectious disease specialists. It isn't clear to me how constitutional lawyers, opinion columnists (both fascist and communist), or economists have relevant expertise in such a situation.
I've asked repeatedly what specific information you have that would show that you are right and the "experts" are wrong. So far I have received no answer.
Yes, sometimes the experts are wrong. But on the average they will be right more often than a non-expert will be. So I ask you, "what if the experts are right?"
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Browneye
Well-Known Member
I agree with everything, but the experts always seem to get proved wrong. And there's a lot of free reign in how all the way things are getting dealt with. Mistakes are going to be made, for sure.
I wise man is willing to change direction when the facts and logic and truth prevail. Only a fool hangs onto misproven doctrine.
Browneye
Well-Known Member
I have always put more faith in conservative doctrine. It makes more sense, it's more logical. It's not a bunch of feelings and ideas.
Thirty years ago when I would drive from Seattle to Anacortes where my sailing yacht was docked, I would listen to Rush Limbaugh on the drive back. Never before in my life did things make so much sense. EVERRRRRRRR
I love the guy, he is a conservative hero in my book and fully deserved his medal. Not that he's had much to say in all this pandemic, he's not a medical person. But he sure would like to know why MY neighborhood isn't getting this thing. What the hell is going on here?????
One thing I do know, is the media likes to keep the people whipped up in fear - and the politicians like it cuz they can get people to move in the direction they wish - it's called POWER. It is called POPULATION CONTROL.
I would not be at all surprise if this was something intentional. Something fabricated. Maybe we'll never know. I think medicine is too far advanced to have something natural that is just a wildcard like this. It just doesn't make sense. Unless they are completely lying about it's origin or what it really does. Some say it's just like any other pandemic. I dunno, this seems different to me.
Thirty years ago when I would drive from Seattle to Anacortes where my sailing yacht was docked, I would listen to Rush Limbaugh on the drive back. Never before in my life did things make so much sense. EVERRRRRRRR
I love the guy, he is a conservative hero in my book and fully deserved his medal. Not that he's had much to say in all this pandemic, he's not a medical person. But he sure would like to know why MY neighborhood isn't getting this thing. What the hell is going on here?????
One thing I do know, is the media likes to keep the people whipped up in fear - and the politicians like it cuz they can get people to move in the direction they wish - it's called POWER. It is called POPULATION CONTROL.
I would not be at all surprise if this was something intentional. Something fabricated. Maybe we'll never know. I think medicine is too far advanced to have something natural that is just a wildcard like this. It just doesn't make sense. Unless they are completely lying about it's origin or what it really does. Some say it's just like any other pandemic. I dunno, this seems different to me.
Handlebars
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The reason "experts" so often get proven wrong is that they weren't actually expert at all - they were political appointees. Fauci is so low on the list of experts it's a joke and the nonsense-spreading Surgeon General has been putting out smoothbrain virus.
Firing is too good.Handlebars
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THAT SAID, Trump is remiss in not putting on a mask and keeping distance from his "experts".
He did the best thing in the world, similar to efforts of Putin and a few others, of protecting his country by trying to cut off China and other sad nation flights from pouring in.
He's doing the best thing in the word, with the medication project. Amazing pick. America needs to thank him.
He's remiss in not FIRING immediately, Surgeon General Adams and some others who represent the UN and the WHO with bad information and terrible advice.
Trump needs to pull up his socks. He needs to be told that by supporters.
He did the best thing in the world, similar to efforts of Putin and a few others, of protecting his country by trying to cut off China and other sad nation flights from pouring in.
He's doing the best thing in the word, with the medication project. Amazing pick. America needs to thank him.
He's remiss in not FIRING immediately, Surgeon General Adams and some others who represent the UN and the WHO with bad information and terrible advice.
Trump needs to pull up his socks. He needs to be told that by supporters.
Handlebars
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You need to tell us who you believe is an expert in communicable disease in order for anyone to show if they have been wrong. Go ahead. Waiting.
Mr. Coffee
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Which "experts" are you referring to that are always proven wrong?
Please keep in mind that when "experts" are right it is rarely news. But when the "experts" are wrong it nearly always is. That alone can produce a distorted view of reality, and is a kind of media bias that is universal. Also universal is the inability of nearly any news media to effectively convey uncertain or complex information. Which often produces a situation where what the media reports "experts" as saying isn't at all what was said. The fact that damned few "experts" have decent public communications skills makes the challenges even uglier.
All of this crap has became important because we now find ourselves in a situation where properly interpreting the information you receive can literally mean the difference between life and death. While I would consider it borderline nuts to use an online forum about electric bikes as your source of information during a pandemic, we also have people out there who are drinking bleach and fish tank cleaner because they think it will protect them from covid-19 -- so there are no shortage of nuts out there.
Why It’s So Freaking Hard To Make A Good COVID-19 Model
Here we are, in the middle of a pandemic, staring out our living room windows like aquarium fish. The question on everybody’s minds: How bad will this really ge…
fivethirtyeight.com
Experts Say The Coronavirus Outlook Has Worsened, But The Trajectory Is Still Unclear
Graphics by Anna Wiederkehr The extent of the COVID-19 crisis is no more certain this week than it was last. This is our second week following a weekly survey o…
fivethirtyeight.com
steve mercier
Well-Known Member
You can say that again...How about the train engineer who tried to crash his rig into the hospital ship?Which "experts" are you referring to that are always proven wrong?
Please keep in mind that when "experts" are right it is rarely news. But when the "experts" are wrong it nearly always is. That alone can produce a distorted view of reality, and is a kind of media bias that is universal. Also universal is the inability of nearly any news media to effectively convey uncertain or complex information. Which often produces a situation where what the media reports "experts" as saying isn't at all what was said. The fact that damned few "experts" have decent public communications skills makes the challenges even uglier.
All of this crap has became important because we now find ourselves in a situation where properly interpreting the information you receive can literally mean the difference between life and death. While I would consider it borderline nuts to use an online forum about electric bikes as your source of information during a pandemic, we also have people out there who are drinking bleach and fish tank cleaner because they think it will protect them from covid-19 -- so there are no shortage of nuts out there.
Why It’s So Freaking Hard To Make A Good COVID-19 Model
Here we are, in the middle of a pandemic, staring out our living room windows like aquarium fish. The question on everybody’s minds: How bad will this really ge…
Experts Say The Coronavirus Outlook Has Worsened, But The Trajectory Is Still Unclear
Graphics by Anna Wiederkehr The extent of the COVID-19 crisis is no more certain this week than it was last. This is our second week following a weekly survey o…
Browneye
Well-Known Member
While I tend to agree with a lot of what you say, you have a way of arguing a point that seems accusatory. There's no mystery about what I'm 'referring to'. In many cases so-called 'experts' are in disagreement. I don't have instant respect for any self-ascribed 'authority', it is earned. If they can prove their position with facts and evidence, so much the better. Lots of people have lots of 'feelings'.
Don't you just hate it when you see a doctor or a veterinarian about something and you hear the, 'well I think' and 'we could try'. YOU are the one that is supposed to KNOW.
An accepted axiom of business is that if you have a great idea but cannot get buy-in from those that need to for something to happen, nothing does. It's just a dead idea.
Tell us who is getting their 'source of information' here on the forum? Or whom YOU think. What is the purpose of this discussion? Perhaps this could clarify things. This is supposed to be a sharing of thoughts, no??? Or do you simply just wish to shut people down cuz somehow YOU know better? I'm not following your line of thinking sometimes. I imagine vice-versa. I've never been a blind follower of anything - I have always questioned, reasoned, gathered facts and opinions. Yes, I can think for myself, thank you. You don't get to do that for me. No one does.
How 'bout all them youtube 'experts'??? Anybody with a go-pro can post any manner of idiotic BS. On what is their 'authority'? Or 'expertise'?
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Handlebars
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Name who you believe is an expert in communicable diseases. Otherwise what you are claiming we SHOULD listen to, is just more fluff from someone who is not an expert talking about experts we should rely on but never naming one.
Browneye
Well-Known Member
Additionally, if you've ever studied MBTI, you come to realize the people that 'should' a lot don't tend to think intuitively, their go-to process is to see and sense their environment and absorb all that as accepted, as common, as proof because that's what they see, what they sense. They tend to accept 'what is' while the intuitives tend to think 'what could be'. This latter trait is what makes them question, to look underneath, to tear down and analyze. Some call this a 'head in the clouds' type. The former is more accepting of what is, even prefer traditions, you hear the 'we've always done it that way'. The entire make up of trait-type in government and education are of these types - the 'SJ's. Sensing-judgers - they're very sure about what things are and how they 'should' be, so you hear that a lot from them when they try to convey their thoughts and feelings.
A more informed individual recognizes these personality types and thought processes and accepts them as that. Not as bible and verse. Feelings are not facts and logic.
Another interesting phenomenon of the SJ type is their unwillingness to self-assess, and tend to reject the entire concept of trait typing. It's just part of their nature.
Needless to say, I didn't get along well with these types growing up as a child. I was kicked out of nearly every class, sequestered for an individual project, as I was much too disruptive, much too advanced, simply bored out of my mind. I'm an INTJ and it took me 'till I was in my forties before I learned what that meant, and why I always felt like I never quite fit in. This type quite simply just doesn't. They don't gather information and process it and make decisions in the same way as everyone else.
So I'm happy to listen to and accept thoughts and logic, facts and data, even to opinions formulated with same, but always reserve judgement, and trust but verify. I like corroboration, verification, confirmation.
EDIT: Just to give you an idea, was discussing all this with the wife over breakfast. I said I was sick of all these 'experts' and her comment was, "The experts can F-O and die."
Yep, she's a handful, for sure. She's the master of the $h*t-test. Took me more than a dozen years to figure this out.
A more informed individual recognizes these personality types and thought processes and accepts them as that. Not as bible and verse. Feelings are not facts and logic.
Another interesting phenomenon of the SJ type is their unwillingness to self-assess, and tend to reject the entire concept of trait typing. It's just part of their nature.
Needless to say, I didn't get along well with these types growing up as a child. I was kicked out of nearly every class, sequestered for an individual project, as I was much too disruptive, much too advanced, simply bored out of my mind. I'm an INTJ and it took me 'till I was in my forties before I learned what that meant, and why I always felt like I never quite fit in. This type quite simply just doesn't. They don't gather information and process it and make decisions in the same way as everyone else.
So I'm happy to listen to and accept thoughts and logic, facts and data, even to opinions formulated with same, but always reserve judgement, and trust but verify. I like corroboration, verification, confirmation.
EDIT: Just to give you an idea, was discussing all this with the wife over breakfast. I said I was sick of all these 'experts' and her comment was, "The experts can F-O and die."
Yep, she's a handful, for sure. She's the master of the $h*t-test. Took me more than a dozen years to figure this out.
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Handlebars
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Where is your evidence supporting those 2 statements, please?
So might your beliefs, when you have no evidence or proof. It all SOUNDS logical if you don't think about it much.
But you have the skillset to get to the bottom of it all? If not then you rely on media reports that you say ...
Indeed.
City Commuter
Active Member
Now Trump is blaming the states and their governments for his own failures. At least Putin is on top of his game looking out for his people, and the American people as well, Putin sent us 60 tons of help. Who will Trump blame today? LMAO!!!!!
Browneye
Well-Known Member
MSNBC is the epitome of fake news. They twist everything around so bad it comes out nearly unrecognizable. I would encourage you to seek your news elsewhere, same for CNN, NYT. These are known hotbeds of reactive, fake, liberal dominated bastions of OPINION, with an agenda. There isn't much news left there anymore.
Handlebars
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More blather, City. States are SUPPOSED to control those things that are in their purview. Trump is respecting State rights.
Handlebars
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You give us the inimitable Brian Williams, the faker, who reported his helicopter taking enemy shots...like Hillary having to duck sniper fire when it was just children giving her flowers.
wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Williams#cite_note-Stripes-45
Thanks, City, you're providing no end of laughs.
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