30 Chinese Cities are on Level 1 lockdown

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The divisiveness is clearly coming from red states. Please don't saddle me with the madness generated by the MAGA crowd. We set it right here. Name-calling, attacks, and innuendo. Watch the YouTube videos of the reports as they came out from the POTUS. Watch the vitriol that was spewed in the gatherings by the election team and tRump on stage. But I'm divisive? WOW!
Sorry, but you're mistaking me with someone that takes a political side and sticks with it like its some kind of sports team. I don't dissect words from anyone looking for some way to blame, as was done about using a scarf above. People playing politics at this time of crisis, as though it was sport are disgusting. We are all either family, friends, neighbors and or countrymen or allies. In other words human. Treating someone like trash because they might belong to a diffrent political party is low. Assigning blame for a virus China let escape into the worlds population, is low.

I know more than what I see in the Washington Post. My wife was a respiratory therapist at one of the country's leading hospitals during H1N1, during the last administration. The dozens of patients she took care of and saw die, she didn't blame the political party in the White House.

People are hurting, suffering and dying and political hacks want to assign blame.

What political party was in power 5 years ago? "We're not ready"


The only political party I blame is the communist party in China for not telling anyone about this in early December. And when they finally did tell someone, they lied about it. They are still lying about it today.

I've never let my political affiliation be known here. If you assume you know, you'd be wrong again.
 
Trump and his republican gang of greedy thugs had months on end to prepare America for this viral infection, but did nothing.
The government has friends of China embedded in it that Trump cannot overcome all by himself. If he fired every leftie he would be impeached again each time and ground down. Medical health authorities are responsible for not doing it, period. Where was the Surgeon General all this time? Did he order normal medical supplies be stockpiled upon his appointment? Where was the WHO other than telling us it's low risk? And not to shut borders.

 
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I saw yesterday's press conference in its entirety and he said you could wear a scarf, that it would be better than nothing. That was after he answered the question of whether people should wear masks. The answer was yes, he thought people should wear masks. Many health experts are saying to wear any kind of mask you can. They even advise making one from tee shirt material. Anything with a tight weave. I've seen DIY instruction on how to make masks from old blue jeans. Let's be clear, they aren't saying wearing your favorite pair of Levi's will protect you from coronavirus.;)
non woven fabric is better for filtration, but anything is better than nothing. woven fabrics can be folded over multiple times so that they act like non-woven fabric.
 
The divisiveness is clearly coming from red states. Please don't saddle me with the madness generated by the MAGA crowd. We set it right here. Name-calling, attacks, and innuendo. Watch the YouTube videos of the reports as they came out from the POTUS. Watch the vitriol that was spewed in the gatherings by the election team and tRump on stage. But I'm divisive? WOW!
Remember the fake video you depended on for evidence, where your source cut out the part Trump was talking about?
Afterward you were shamed into posting a relatively true transcript with no cut out part. That exposed the dishonesty you were promoting and you had to close down on that issue.

You were claiming that Trump called it a hoax. But he wasn't. You were promoting the dishonest edited-out paragraph video.
Here's from your own transcript; the missing part makes sense of it all - that's why it was removed in your fakery video.
Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus. You know that, right? Coronavirus. They’re politicizing it. We did one of the great jobs.
‘How’s President Trump doing?’ They go, ‘Oh, not good, not good.’ They have no clue. They don’t have any clue. They can’t even count their votes in Iowa, they can’t even count. No they can’t. They can’t count their votes.
One of my people came up to me and said, ‘Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia. That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything, they tried it over and over, they’ve been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning, they lost, it’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax.
 
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The USA is currently getting hit the hardest of any country. Why should this be happening in the wealthiest country on earth? Somebody has some explaining to do and I do not think it is Obama. Mike- s E-bikes started this thread on Jan 26.
 
The USA is currently getting hit the hardest of any country. Why should this be happening in the wealthiest country on earth? Somebody has some explaining to do and I do not think it is Obama. Mike- s E-bikes started this thread on Jan 26.
Listening to the UN and the WHO advice will do that for a country. As it did to every country. Following the UN and the WHO led to Canada's dire predicament where now it's a police state without an economy. If you blame leaders, why are you not blaming Trudeau? Or his Ministers?
 
Singapore identified this early on and stopped the spread of infection nearly immediately, by mandating (of hospital staff) washing of hands with soap and water, not so-called "sanitizers", before and after each contact with a person or thing that could potentially be infected. By doing that they dropped the infection rate of their hospital staff to a statistical zero and almost immediately thereafter the outbreak there was under control. They still get a case here and there, but the simple fact is that despite the screams of horror about community spread, the facts are that it isn't that easy for social transmission of this bug to take place, except through super-spreading events.

If it was, then the mitigating factors would have had an immediate and dramatic impact, and they have not. Further, Singapore couldn't have stopped transmission to health care workers (if it was airborne primarily and they were just wearing masks) by mandating strict hand hygiene standards, but they did.

We have repeatedly seen this pattern -- where you have a case here and there, a few people show up in the hospital and then the sudden exponential explosion in that locality occurs after failing to follow the predicted geometric progression for weeks -- and it happens in city after city. "Social distancing" doesn't stop or reverse it, and neither do "stay at home" orders, even when backed up with the threat of fines or worse. New York is a leading example of this. Their Rnaught (spread rate) is just not changing after the lockdowns and social distancing. This means the primary vector is the hospitals themselves. That is exactly why Dr. Zuban Damania emphasized very directly, that hospital staff must was their hands religiously. (he knows foro experience this is not occurring). If this was mostly airborne transmission, then the lockdowns would have had dramatic effects in every single country, and R naught would have dropped below 2.7 in the clusters where it has gotten a foothold. It hasn't - data series after data series is showing Rnaught is staying up around 2.7 to 3.0 during lockdowns after after several weeks. Its maybe dropping about a .5 of a point. This is still significantly above the spread of the common flu which is just below 1.0. This has been why WHO and CDC has since day 1 not been advocating masks. They may relent now, bc lockdowns aren't slowing, but the masks will only give everyone a very false sense of security.

The 3 primary things Singapore did per Dr. Z: (Zuban Damania)
1) Doctors and all staff in hospitals washed hands with soap and water (not just sanitizers) between every patient visit. And other staff regularly sanitized all surfaces.
2) Maintained social distancing WITHIN the hospitals, meaning eliminating all doctor to doctor or inhouse staff meetings, AND, social distancing within all waiting areas, limiting number of people within them.
3) Tracked down all people who had contact with infected individuals, and tested all these people as quickly as possible, and quarantined all of them who had contact with the infected patient. Testing was very key, and he noted we aren't doing it enough, or properly to the right targeted segments. He admitted this was very hard but doable. Temperature taking was another element, requiring hospital staff to do this twice per day. Before and after shifts.

The above is a paraphrase of Dr. Z's informative videos, and that of Karl Denninger, who while not a doctor, has been very prescient calling a lot of what's been happening since mid January and has been pretty much spot on.


Note that Dr.Z also said, Wuhan's doctors also figured this out, and this is how they got things under control, which occurred AFTER they had urgently brought in thousands of doctors from around China, since Wuhan was a total disaster and doctors and nurses were getting infected at such a high rate they didn't have enough staff to carry on, back in late January and February. All the information out there has been very mixed, very overwhelming, but when you zero in on the right people who are showing consistency, using evidence, and there is real common sense stuff that can't be disputed, and multiple of these people who don't know each other are providing layers of corroboration, the story becomes rather clear as to what is effective, and what is not. It appears to me further, that the changes will need to happen at a 'grass roots' level within these hospitals through the efforts of people like Dr. Z, and other clinicians on the front lines, sharing their stories with their brethren in the health community across the country. I'm not seeing evidence that people like Dr. Fauci, or even Dr. Birx are communicating these solutions, and if they are they certainly aren't saying this publicly to the American people. Maybe they are all afraid, hospitals would get a really bad rap from this. Personally, I have been in the hospitals way too many times over past years, due to family and relatives needing to go in, and once myself for MRSA about 12 years ago, and I can attest, I never once saw any of these people, go to the sinks that are in each room and ICU, wash their hands, before engaging with the patients, and then wash them again before leaving. The only person I have ever seen do this, is my primary care physician. Scares the heck out of me when I see dry sinks, no soap dispensers nearby, and no handtowels in any room of hospitals that I have had the unfortunate experience of being in way too many times. How many people as patients even think about this ? Do you assume these professionals wash their hands do it elsewhere ? Then try observing them moving from room to room, or bed to bed when in a larger area with only curtains between patients. Nitrile Gloves being on arent the answer either. You also have to wash after you remove them.
Your post has changed my thinking on the matter... not only masks for all, but hand washing with soapy water... and for MEDICAL STAFF...these are the modern day plague doctors unintentionally spreading the contagion and even dying for their efforts.
 
Some facts from New York.

"Out of the 1046 classified deaths as to underlying causes in NY thus far 1.72% did not have one or more of Diabetes, Lung Disease, Cancer, Immunodeficiency, Heart Disease, Hypertension, Asthma, Kidney Disease and GI/Liver Disease.


By this data only three people over the age of 75 without one or more of those diseases has died in NY. Three.

Thus just looking at this data, only people who should be under "shelter in place" orders are those with one or more of these listed conditions; nobody else has any reason to be so-constrained. Everyone who has such a condition knows they do.

Then there was last night's Laura Ingraham show with an ICU doctor as a guest. He's had a decent number of patients wind up on vents with this virus. Every single one was overweight or obese and either diabetic or pre-diabetic.

Every
Single
One.


He's now started at admission treating all with hydroxychloroquine and Zpak and since starting that program immediately on admission says he has not had one wind up on a vent.
Anecdote? Yes."

*All NY outcome data is in the attached file. Dated April 2, 2020. I downloaded this from Karl Denninger. He is not a doctor. I have no reason to doubt its veracity, as Karl has never posted anything that was untrue. I've been following Karl for the past 10 years. The above in quotes is his words.
 

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"Out of the 1046 classified deaths as to underlying causes in NY thus far 1.72% did not have one or more of Diabetes, Lung Disease, Cancer, Immunodeficiency, Heart Disease, Hypertension, Asthma, Kidney Disease and GI/Liver Disease.


By this data only three people over the age of 75 without one or more of those diseases has died in NY. Three.
Yes, and across all the age segments, eighteen people without underlying conditions died in NY alone.

I think most of deaths among seniors are due to higher than average exposure in nursing homes and other senior facilities. Over-crowding is what is killing people right now and will eventually kill the humanity if people don't wise up. Try explaining this to the 3rd world (or China, for that matter). Given certain, er... ethnic dietary habits like bats, pangolins etc.
 
Listening to the UN and the WHO advice will do that for a country. As it did to every country. Following the UN and the WHO led to Canada's dire predicament where now it's a police state without an economy. If you blame leaders, why are you not blaming Trudeau? Or his Ministers?

Still an economy..I am working frontline and getting a paycheck...plus a raise. Yes things are not the same but not the bleak picture you like to paint @Handlebars
 
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Mask up everyone...

White House expected to recommend everyone wear masks...coming within days.

Dr Birx is worried that people will get an 'artificial sense of protection because they're behind the mask'. And not social distance and not do the hand washing etc.

She has a very valid point.
 
Where are all these masks going to come from and if they arent at least n95 or kn95, are they all that useful? I've heard many experts say that if masks aren't tight fitting they are worthless, and that contamination gets on them and IN the fibers so that when people remove them, the contact from the hands continues the spread anyway, unless they're carefully removed while wearing ppe.

And people thought TP was hard to get...the prices just quadrupled if you haven't already ordered them or stocked up. China is the only place to direct order. Everything made in our country is going straight to medical staff in every hospital or clinic for the next x months.
 
Still an economy..I am working frontline and getting a paycheck...plus a raise. Yes things are not the same but not the bleak picture you like to paint @Handlebars ...Fearmongering again
Not. You and the others in that position cannot support the majority that are or will be in isolation or sick and pay for their food, rent, and mortgages.
 
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We all have plenty of time right now to think about who is responsible for this, because two-thirds of the country is under "lockdown" or "shelter in place" or "stay at home" orders. And we will be in that situation for months.

It did not have to be this way. This was a preventable tragedy.

There were multiple points of failure. There was a lot of screwing up.

Public health budgets in the United States have been declining everywhere for decades. This was a bipartisan failure and they all screwed up.

The supposedly mighty and gold-plated American health care system has been exposed to be a massive grift. I personally don't feel I am getting my money's worth right now. Do you? My understanding is that doctors and nurses are having their pay cut because treating covid-19 isn't as profitable as their normal work so there isn't as much revenue coming in -- to which I can only shake my head at the boneheadedness of the system we have. Or scream and claw my eyeballs out.

We had an organization in place (the CDC) that was supposed to provide us with early warning about a pandemic so we would have time to prepare. They blew the preparation. The Trump administration did not screw this up. More precisely, they masturbated this up.

Other countries with far fewer resources were able to roll out large-scale testing and contact tracing and more or less contain this disease, so far, without being forced to go into a lockdown. The CDC and the FDA major league dropped the ball. If you recall, those organizations work for the President, one Donald J. Trump. Again, they masturbated this up.

States have started clamoring for PPE and ventilators and other medical supplies from the national stockpile. The emergency distribution system has been completely haphazard and at times incomprehensibly self-serving. Like monkeys at a self-serve frozen yogurt shop. In a particularly ironic twist, many of the ventilators were nonfunctional because the Trump administration canceled the contract to maintain them last year. Again, our government should have been on the ball and should have been acquiring PPE and ventilators in January, or at least making sure the stuff they had worked. Apparently they were too busy masturbating.

This would be hilarious if it weren't so tragic.

Just remember that this whole lockdown thing wasn't necessary. You can all remember that for the next two or three months.

The way I look at it, in the Navy if the captain of an aircraft carrier runs it aground he is responsible. It might have been bad luck or just an honest mistake, but he (still nearly always a he) is still responsible. I think a President should be held to the same standard. A whole lot of people are going to die who didn't have to because our elected government dropped the ball. And the rest of us are in this screwed up situation with a trashed economy.

It did not have to be this way.
 
What a joke! China blaming while your country burns to the ground seem to be all your government can do... No.1 for infections, and likely soon to be no.1 for deaths. God, I'm glad I don't live there.
I'm not American. Our country is even worse off because they have no plan at all except isolation. It was all UN and WHO and "low risk" and keep borders open 'til it was lockdown and police state. Border still open but walls and home borders suddenly are believed to work now.
 
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The way I look at it, in the Navy if the captain of an aircraft carrier runs it aground he is responsible. It might have been bad luck or just an honest mistake, but he (still nearly always a he) is still responsible. I think a President should be held to the same standard.
But that isn't the standard you suggest by your analogy. The Prez isn't the Captain of any of the ships you describe.
Not being very familiar with the echelons, I'll refer to wiki:

The Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) is the head of the United States Navy. The position is a statutory office (10 U.S.C. § 5033) held by a four-star admiral who is a military adviser and deputy to the Secretary of the Navy. In a separate capacity as a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (10 U.S.C. § 151) the CNO is a military adviser to the National Security Council, the Homeland Security Council, the Secretary of Defense, and the President. The current Chief of Naval Operations is Admiral Michael M. Gilday.

Despite the title, the CNO does not have operational command authority over Naval forces. The CNO is an administrative position based in the Pentagon, and exercises supervision of Navy organizations as the designee of the Secretary of the Navy. Operational command of naval forces falls within the purview of the Combatant Commanders who report to the Secretary of Defense.

Joint Chiefs of Staff
The CNO is a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff as prescribed by 10 U.S.C. § 151 and 10 U.S.C. § 5033. Like the other members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the CNO is an administrative position, with no operational command authority over the United States Navy forces.

Members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, individually or collectively, in their capacity as military advisers, shall provide advice to the President, the National Security Council (NSC), or the Secretary of Defense (SECDEF) on a particular matter when the President, the NSC, or SECDEF requests such advice. Members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (other than the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) may submit to the Chairman advice or an opinion in disagreement with, or advice or an opinion in addition to, the advice presented by the Chairman to the President, NSC, or SECDEF.

When performing his JCS duties, the CNO is responsible directly to the SECDEF, but keeps SECNAV fully informed of significant military operations affecting the duties and responsibilities of the SECNAV, unless SECDEF orders otherwise.[5]

Appointment
The Chief of Naval Operations is nominated by the President for appointment and must be confirmed by the Senate.[6] A requirement for being Chief of Naval Operations is having significant experience in joint duty assignments, which includes at least one full tour of duty in a joint duty assignment as a flag officer.[6] However, the president may waive those requirements if he determines that appointing the officer is necessary for the national interest.[6] By statute, the CNO is appointed as a four-star admiral.[6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_of_Naval_Operations#cite_note-CNO-6

However, I do agree, in that Trump needs to fire those responsible, and in my opinion his Surgeon General needs to go ASAP, so perhaps the Assistant Secretary for Health needs to be fired for not taking care of that.
Somebody screwed up the test and somebody approved of that. Right there would be a good place to start laying blame.
 
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I'm sorry I played into this thread. I did my best to delete any comments but some were QFT.
Watching my fellow Americans using single sources as proof of our awareness really scares me more than Covid 19. Phrasing coming from my government that also alienates my fellow Americans also scares me. So as best I could I removed my comments.

Back to eBikes for me.
 
Where are all these masks going to come from and if they arent at least n95 or kn95, are they all that useful? I've heard many experts say that if masks aren't tight fitting they are worthless, and that contamination gets on them and IN the fibers so that when people remove them, the contact from the hands continues the spread anyway, unless they're carefully removed while wearing ppe.
It's a sliding scale.
If they aren't n95 or k95 they are still useful because they protect you from "most" respiratory droplets, and offer yet more protection for others from your droplets, being close to your mouth and nose.

When removing the mask, contamination from hands or to hands is possible, and you can reduce this by washing your hands often and disinfecting the mask in 70% alcohol or letting it sit +24 hours between the uses.
 
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