250W E-bike mid-drive motors hardly outperforms 250W hub motors

[AHicks]

The simulations are only valid for motors up to 250W. As we use in Europe for driving witout licence. This is because by nature, all small permanent magnetic motors have equal characteristics. At 1000W, I expect serious differences in performance, but I have not tested this.

All due respect for your efforts, but results for tests on 250w systems, especially hub driven, while interesting maybe to some, are not real relevant stateside.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Total BS !! Buy a quality hub motor 1st then you'll agree that that is total brainwashing. A good TQ sensor and controller is essential.

But first we shouls just assume that the test is equal:

A quality hub drive vs middrive( by default alltough i dislike them all mid drive motors are good or very good). Not the same for hub drive ebikes. Some r trash, some r excellent.

On my japanese Dapu hub motor on a steep road or anything above a 5% incline i could do if i want anywhere from 85-115rpm.

The lesson is: u have to smoothly pedal the bike or ebike , not just grind the gears and xpect the motor to push u. Chainrings/Chain+cassette change @ 7-8000miles; and at any Pas level the assistance kicks in smootly maintaining the speed or increasing it if i go with a harder gear ; of course the higher the assit , the more responsive the motor is.

Also a new Bosch motor is about 1.2k maybe 1500$ for a Performance line gen. 4.

That's about 4or 5 of 750watts Dapu motors or any high end hub motors. Makes sense why they want everyone on middrives , shareholders also demand it

yes I have head that the dapu u=hubs are good but they are not exactly found much in the wild. I had a dapu mid drive it was ok but not as good as my bosch. I did not say you cant spend on a hub drive bit with the less gears on the rear cluster and the lack of a torque sensor makes it less then ideal to spin on most hub driven bikes. most people I have seen do not smoothly pedal they go so slow that the motor is doing most of the work. I love to pass those people.

 

[avandalen]

I agree, one day before long you will see Hub motors with at least a 2 spd range( the diminutive size of the little beastly mid drives is so appealing- lets keep them all! My companies excavators are not backdumps and the backdumps are not excavators{apples to oranges so to speak}
What surprised Me was how much grunt a geared Bafang had if you just got the wheel to move a fraction( liked its watts though)

I like the 2-speed concept, but the 2-speed Suzhou Xiongda Motor YTWS-01 has a weigth of 3.2kg, which is idiot.

 

[avandalen]

All due respect for your efforts, but results for tests on 250w systems, especially hub driven, while interesting maybe to some, are not real relevant stateside.

Sorry, you are right, I live in the Netherlands..

 

[RunForTheHills]

Which hub motors come with a thru axle? The only one I know of is the GMAC. Other than that I thought most hub motors came with a solid axle that has been ground flat on two ends to prevent the motor from twisting in the dropouts. The GMAC uses a torque arm instead and quite a beefy one, but who else does this?

The GMAC doesn't have a thru axle. It has a solid 10mm axle without the flats. You are probably thinking of the Grin All Axle motor.

 

[m@Robertson]

Which hub motors come with a thru axle? The only one I know of is the GMAC. Other than that I thought most hub motors came with a solid axle that has been ground flat on two ends to prevent the motor from twisting in the dropouts. The GMAC uses a torque arm instead and quite a beefy one, but who else does this?

Actually the GMACs are not thru axle. They are solid axles with flats and they DO have an integrated torque arm, but that is only because Grin developed a proprietary arm specific to that motor. Ordinarily torque arms are a separate purchase,which has resulted in some real tragedies coming from newbie builders. A lot of production ebikes don't use them because their motors aren't powerful enough to need them; instead relying on tabbed washers that obstruct the dropout, and axle flats that hopefully freeze the axle in the dropouts; meaning the dropouts need to be strong (or else).

On the thru axle, you are thinking of the Grin All Axle motors and those are alone/unique in their support for thru axle in the industry although I'd be happy to be wrong. I'm not a fan of them because to service the motor you have to ... disassemble the *wheel*. There is no cover plate per se... the spokes have to be removed and then the wheel rebuilt after the motor goes back together. They are direct drive motors so unlikely to need service, but having to destroy a professional wheel build if I ever have to do so made them a 'hell no' for me.

 

[Ebiker01]

Which hub motors come with a thru axle?

I know that Dapu motors uses them and then the Cyno drive motors made by Stromer . It could be others too.

 

[kmccune]

I like the 2-speed concept, but the 2-speed Suzhou Xiongda Motor YTWS-01 has a weigth of 3.2kg, which is idiot.

I think some of the bigger motors approach that weight, when Justin gets it figured out there will probably be little weight penalty.

 

[Ebiker01]

the lack of a torque sensor makes it less then ideal to spin on most hub driven bikes.

Yes, i agree . Now, that really shows that there is a market for a nice , higher end hub motor ebike.
Aventon has some okay models with an almost good enough finish, paint, welds, but low end components , still it's only 1.6k.

 

[Ebiker01]

Can one buy a bike with a Dapu motor or is it a DIY affair?

From what i know, Evelo and Pedego are using them. There could be others.

Update- This used to be on Dapu, it's on Bafang, a great bulletproof ebike though !!

Aurora Sport

A versatile, easy-to-ride electric bike with a unique frame design, a sporty rear hub motor and a comfortable upright riding position.

evelo.com

Pedego still has 3 or 4 models on Dapu !


But if u use a thorn proof tube , this is the best(https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008ZTKYMW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), i've tried a few , and a good or v. Good tire(Specialized electrak 2.0 is the best rear tire for commuting imo) , u'll never have a flat unless u go riding on rocks, mtn. trails. or don't change the tire when needed.



Here's a comp. of hub motors , an older article : https://ebikereviewer.com/index.php...-and-comparison-bafang-dapu-shengyi-and-more/

Good site btw. ! This Aventon rocks , can't believe it's so cheap...

Aventon Level, Fantastic Commuter E-bike with Great Value

PRICE : $1,599 SCORE : 8.6/10 Eye Catching High End Design Hydraulic Brakes Comfortable Ride Great Value No Head or Tail Light Throttle doesn't work from steady Don't

ebikereviewer.com

So, for about 4.3k (2699$+1599$) , one can get 2 good ebikes : Evelo Aurora hub+ Aventon level !!

Evelo also has 4year warranty ( the only ebike brand to offer this for motor/controller/battery and 100% 5stars reviews on the Aurora hub. And they offer a 21day at home trial .

 

[ElevenAD]

My Hub Cruiser is pretty powerful for a hub bike,it peaks at 1000w and even if I limit my middrive bike to750watts it still out performes my hub bike on any type of incline, large or small,just downshift and go

 

[avandalen]

yamaha battery dongle .

Soon I will get 10 boards, ( are already sold ) later this year I will produce more

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Can one buy a bike with a Dapu motor or is it a DIY affair?

Cannot say for your area. A Czech company Lovelec makes some ebikes with DAPU motors. (I own a hub-motor Lovelec).

Lovelec Teraka with mid-drive DAPU P motor.

 

[harryS]

I like the 2-speed concept, but the 2-speed Suzhou Xiongda Motor YTWS-01 has a weigth of 3.2kg, which is idiot.

Really? My Q100's are about the same diameter (~105mm), and I weigh them at 2Kg (4.5 pounds). I found a user review where the owner says 1.6Kg for the YTWS-01. That is 3.2ish pounds. Maybe you were given bad info.

In the DIY world, they had their one chance to make a splash on entry and fell on their face. Based on early user reports, reliability was poor. Some units stripped the gearing if the wheel was rolled backwards, but that was thee years ago. Lunacycle.com tried to import them to the USA, but they were selling the version with a 142mm drop-out. EIther they messed up or got shipped the wrong batch. That didn't go over too well.

Xiongda still makes it, so I suppose the production flaws were fixed.

 

[EMGX]

Soon I will get 10 boards, ( are already sold ) later this year I will produce more

Price?
I believe that I saw on the German Pedalec forum that someone else also produced 10 boards and sold them.

 

[fooferdoggie]

the dapu mid drive is ok and the 500 watt had a bit more power then my bosch but it also ate batteries like crazy. mine had a 52v 650 watt battery and on turbo I got maybe 5 miles less then then my bosch with a 36v 500 watt battery.

 

[Ebiker01]

This looks like it will be a very good hub drive system :

FSA CONFIRMS FSA SYSTEM MASS PRODUCTION

FSA System HM 1.0, the first FSA’s e-bike drive system officially presented at Eurobike last year, is ready for the mass production and will be available for bike frames producers early September.

www.fullspeedahead.com