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[fooferdoggie]

A bungee cord is better than a second kickstand. If the fork won't turn and neither will the front wheel, it's more secure on the sidestand, or I can lean it against something. It helps if I need it to be stable for mechanical work.

It also prevents theft, unless a truly professional thief brings an angle grinder with a wheel designed to cut bungee cords!

View attachment 211780

Well, if you can't sit on the seat, that may help.

 

[6zfshdb]

A bungee cord is better than a second kickstand. If the fork won't turn and neither will the front wheel, it's more secure on the sidestand, or I can lean it against something. It helps if I need it to be stable for mechanical work.

It also prevents theft, unless a truly professional thief brings an angle grinder with a wheel designed to cut bungee cords!

View attachment 211780

I've been using a Steer Stopper device on my bikes to hold my bars in place for several years:

SteerStopper® – Front Wheel Stabilizer for Touring & Bikepacking Bikes

Stop front‑wheel flop on loaded touring and bikepacking bikes. SteerStopper® keeps your bike upright when parking, loading panniers, or pushing—simple, reliable, one‑click stability.

steerstopper.com

A cheap luggage lock can also be used as a deterrent for a casual ride off thief.

Pricey at $109, and just as easy to cut as a bungee, but it's always in place so you don't have to fetch anything out of a bag to set it up.
I use it 10 or 15 times on an average ride and to me anyway, it's worth the price for the convenience. It also comes in handy when you have to walk the bike or put it on a rack.

 

[PedalUma]

Larger bikes, especially those with front racks, should have defloporaters.

 

[spokewrench]

It also comes in handy when you have to walk the bike or put it on a rack.

Walking a bike...
I found my Radrunner clumsier to walk than a conventional bike. My Radmission was worse and my Abound worse yet. I often injured my right shin on a pedal or knocked the mirror out of alignment. After I shortened the bars on the Abound and the Radmission, they were as easy to walk as conventional bikes.

I see the problem now. I think the Radrunner bars were 600mm wide. To steer a bike as I walked, I had to reach across to the right grip. With the Radmission's 670mm bar, I'd sometimes stab my leg with the pedal as I walked while reaching across. The Abound's 720mm bars were worse. With 540mm bars, the reach is easy.

Bumps and wrists...
I usually take a right turn 100 yards from my house on bumpy, patched pavement. On my Abound, I'd slow down to spare my wrists. The sweep of your wide bars reminds me that two days after shortening the bars, I found myself charging into that corner, as I used to do with my Radrunner. That defies logic. The Radrunner had no suspension, and its wide tires were notoriously rough on bumps because they needed 30 psi.

The secret is what I discovered riding the Radrunner "no hands". Not fully trusting the bike, I'd ride without touching the grips but with thumbs and middle fingers making rings around them. When I hit bumps, the grips jerked primarily back, not up, relative to my hands. Pressure on pedals and seat helped me rise with the bike. That explains why the grips hardly seemed to rise. On a bump, some forward kinetic energy must be converted to upward kinetic energy, causing a spike of rearward acceleration (deceleration). That explains why the grips jumped back, along with the rest of the bike.

The suspension of the Abound would alleviate this. If only the mass of the wheel and fork had to accelerate up and over the bump, the deceleration of the bike would have been smaller. If the front wheel doesn't get you, watch out for the back. With no suspension, the back wheel would still cause a sharp spike of deceleration.

It seems a single bump would cause me to lurch forward twice on the Radrunner and only once on the Abound. Why could I handle bumps better on the Radrunner? I see now that it was because the bars were 600mm wide, vs 720 for the Abound. My forearms were better aligned with the lurching caused by bumps. When I shortened my Abound bar to 550mm, my wrists were cocked until I rotated the bars so that the grips sweep down more than back. With my forearms aligned with the direction of lurches, my wrists can handle bumps better. It's like the advice to keep your back vertical when lifting something heavy.

 

[PedalUma]

There was an '80's song that went something like this. No need to ask, He's a defloporater. Defloporater. Defloporater. Defloporater!

 

[spokewrench]

There was an '80's song that went something like this. No need to ask, He's a defloporater. Defloporater. Defloporater. Defloporater!

Is that why Modernbike.com wouldn't sell me one?

 

[PedalUma]

Is that why Modernbike.com wouldn't sell me one?

I attached one to a bike's down tube using a Toapeak Versa Mount. She is the one in the thread 'a bike that doesn't exist' She talks about it there.

 

[LandoftheGiants]

lol, it's funny reading all these posts because I leave home, go for my rides, and come back home. The bike is never out of my sight and the only time I'm off it is to drink my bottle. I have 'spots' for that, where I lean it up against a post or fence, no sidestand. Anyway it's good to hear all the techniques posted as one day I might be using them for more than exercise and fun.

 

[spokewrench]

I attached one to a bike's down tube using a Toapeak Versa Mount. She is the one in the thread 'a bike that doesn't exist' She talks about it there.

Oh, you mean a Yuba Deflopilator. Yuba says it's just for parking. I agree.

Patrice says, "to tame the steering when rough terrain or uneven loads try to wrestle the handlebars from my hands." That sounds like oscillations.

Learning to ride a bike means learning to steer your wheels under you until you pick up enough speed for the bike's geometry to take over. If the center of mass moves to one side, the bike leans. That leaning moves the contact patch of the front tire, turning it in that direction and bringing your wheels under you. Oscillations happen when the lateral shifting of weight and the bike's steering correction get out of phase. That happened to me on a BMW motorcycle on the Alcan Highway in 1971, when 1300 miles were unpaved. On gravel several inches deep, the uneven surface could move the contact patch to one side, yanking the handlebars that way. Gravity would tip the bike the other way, moving the contact patch and whipping the handlebars that way. When it happened to me, I pulled the clutch in case engine push or drag was involved. The oscillations got worse. I could be dead if I didn't damp them. Two choices were to use the engine for push or for drag. I chose the latter. I let out the clutch with no throttle, and the drag on the back wheel damped the oscillations like the tail of a kite.

Most vehicles rode at 35, but after that I cruised at 80 to be prepared for the next stretch of deep gravel. To get across, I'd roll off the throttle so engine drag would damp oscillations. Deep gravel and engine drag would be slowing me, so I'd have to start with enough kinetic energy to get me past the deep gravel. If I didn't make it, I might have to find a team of oxen to drag my bike out of the deep gravel. Cruising at 80 on an unpaved road was exhausting.

Those pre-1969 BMWs used hydraulic dampers, like the cylinders that keep storm doors from slamming, to prevent oscillations. I don't know if it would have worked in deep gravel. Later BMWs used friction dampers where you tightened to big washers together. On a BMW with that kind of damper on another trip to Alaska in 1975, I ran into the same problem in deep gravel in Wisconsin. I don't know if the friction damper would have worked. I think both dampers were for paved surfaces.

The first time I hauled a big load of logs on my Abound, I kept my speed low because it wanted to oscillate on pavement. I decided that the cause was inadequate tire pressure for that load. I don't know if that was correct. The last time I hauled 4 gallons of gas on that bike, the bike wanted so sway. I kept my speed down to avoid oscillations. Hauling that can of gas had been okay in the past. I don't know what had changed.

If Patrice thinks a Deflopilator prevented oscillations, that's placebo effect. A spring doesn't absorb energy, so it can't damp oscillations.

 

[kevinmccune]

right a spring stores energy,a damper consumes that energy that causes reverb or oscillation( like a shock absorber) the spring is like a Pogo stick.

 

[PCeBiker]

If Patrice thinks a Deflopilator prevented oscillations, that's placebo effect. A spring doesn't absorb energy, so it can't damp oscillations.

right a spring stores energy,a damper consumes that energy that causes reverb or oscillation

The spring has a plastic damper wrapped around it.

The spring needs to scrub inside the plastic housing as it expands and contracts.

It works in a similar way as the plastic wrap on my seatpost spring scrubs the inside of the seatpost tube as it moves.

There's a wrap of plastic on the spring in a spring fork tube as well that performs the same function.

Actually, I greased the hell outta my seatpost spring, and may have lost some of my damping effect?

I didn't want my seatpost to wear out or rust, so I greased it up good.

 

[PCeBiker]

Larger bikes, especially those with front racks, should have defloporaters.

I've actually got half a dozen gas filled defloporaters that I've had for over 25 years,..

My old POS ebike has an annoying shimmy so I can't ride it no-hands.

I can sort of attach a couple of them to my forks and downtube, but I wouldn't be able to turn my handlebars very far.
I'd need to build a bracket, or maybe flip the forks around for better attachment angle?

That's all way too much effort, and they say you can't polish a turd, so I think I'm just gunna try a stupid simple approach, and just wrap something around the steerer tube and fork brace to add some friction to the forks rotation?

I've got a couple of inches of fully wrappable steerer tube that I can weave a strip of rubber or strap or something around to bind things up a little?

Something like this,..

 

[PCeBiker]

Cane Creek has a Viscose steering damping headset, but that's way too much money to spend on a two dollar POS ebike.

 

[PedalUma]

@spokewrench, Patrice developed a wobble at the back of the bike. It took a while to figure out that it was a loose front axle. The spring is adjustable. It prevents the front loaded rack from flopping when parked. And it helps when a bump wants to yank the bars out of your hands.

 

[spokewrench]

@spokewrench, Patrice developed a wobble at the back of the bike. It took a while to figure out that it was a loose front axle. The spring is adjustable. It prevents the front loaded rack from flopping when parked. And it helps when a bump wants to yank the bars out of your hands.

I might have done that. Then you would be in the enviable position of second-guessing me.

Yuba says the Deflopilator doesn't affect handling. A u-turn on a 10-foot concrete strip requires me to turn the bar more than 53 degrees. OK, I'll agree that a spring could keep the wheel of a parked bike from flopping without being strong enough for me to feel at 53 degrees. At the same time, how could spring tension I couldn't feel, keep the bar from being yanked out of my hands?

Normally, a bump won't affect control because your hands will apply equal pressure to both grips. At 15 mph, a sudden deflection of only 5 degrees would mean a sudden lateral motion of 2 feet per second. Would that be a loss of control? How well could the spring oppose that deflection? I'll have to plug in values. Say the spring has a tension of 10 pounds, is 4" long, and is attached to the fork 1" from the steering axis. I calculate 0.12 Nm at 5 degrees (1.2 Nm at 53 degrees). No wonder it wouldn't affect handling!

Now suppose I'm riding with one hand on a 600mm bar, and a bump causes a 50 pound lurch. That's 67 Nm, more than 500 times the torque of a 10-pound spring. I don't see how the spring would help.

I think it makes a big difference to slow down where oscillations are possible. Considering my speed before taking a hand off the bar also helps. For a given size bump, the force of a lurch will vary with my speed. For a given deflection, the lateral motion will vary with my speed. On pavement with invisible irregularities that make harsh bumps, waving at 8 mph is much safer than at 16.

Shortening my bars helped a lot because the Nm from a given lurch will vary with the length of the bar. If I'm not going fast, I can wave without risking death. Yesterday I took one hand off the bar to check my watch while braking with the other. Shorter bars have turned me into a daredevil!

 

[spokewrench]

I've actually got half a dozen gas filled defloporaters that I've had for over 25 years,..

My old POS ebike has an annoying shimmy so I can't ride it no-hands.

I can sort of attach a couple of them to my forks and downtube, but I wouldn't be able to turn my handlebars very far.
I'd need to build a bracket, or maybe flip the forks around for better attachment angle?

If they're springy, I guess they're deflopilators. If they simply resist when pushed or pulled fast, I guess they're dampers like BMW used. At normal steering speeds, the hydraulic fluid would squirt past the piston without much resistance. If the bars started going back and forth rapidly, the damper would put up enough resistance to keep it from getting worse.

In 1970, a man told me of a friend who had recently put a Beetle engine in a BMW motorcycle. He had to extend the frame to enclose the bigger engine. He put on leathers to test it before an audience. At what he later said was more than 100 mph, he went into oscillations that increased until he was thrown off. He tumbled a long way and suffered only a minor fracture. Throwing him off, the bike straightened out. With no hand on the throttle, it slowed. It went a long way, came to a stop, and fell on a cylinder head.

He needed to extend the handlebars way back because of the longer engine. He's supporting himself by the handlebars, but they are long levers turning the bike away from the way he pushes. A bike's geometry is like a spring, keeping the wheels lined up with the direction gravity and centrifugal force are pushing the mass. His handlebars meant his inertia provided feedback that was way out of phase: hence, oscillations.

I like to keep the centers of my handles within 3" of the steering axis. It wasn't until I had an e-bike that I discovered what can happen if the handles are more than 3" ahead of the steering axis. You want to make a u-turn, so you lean left. The bike's geometry turns the bar left to keep the wheels under you. If your hands are ahead of the steering axis, turning the bar left will shift your weight left, causing the bike to turn the bars farther. Here, your inertia provides feedback in phase with the bike's geometry. It's leading to a death spiral, an ever-tightening turn. It can be controlled, but why put up with a bike that wants to do the wrong thing? It's time to move the handles back a little.

 

[kevinmccune]

that reminds of an old excavator,the company had when you was moving it around it would start when it shaking and jerking,dipping and diving,it had the half ass'gray market' undercarriage( it finally got so bad you couldn't keep the tracks on a lot of times)all you could when it started was hands off the controls and let it settle down.That thing about the VW engine got me thinking about about the former"motorcycle club" hereabouts,the leader had a trike made from basically the backend of a "bug",it had a long fork and a lot of rake,watched him(he was a little guy) ty to back it up,He was in revetrotrotrolrse trying to move that fork started wobbling and jerking so much he couldn't control it,I guess(like a shopping cart in reverse) the caster or something was wrong in that mode,forward it seemed fine.

 

[LandoftheGiants]

I'd be wary adding homemade steering dampers to pushbikes. The ones they put on motorcycles are specifically designed for each bike and have internal hydraulic circuits that allow uninhibited motion if the rotation is slow, but sharp quick movements are damped by the flow of the fluid being restricted. Some advanced units like the after market Scotts steering damper have two circuits, one fast and one slow. This does not refer to bike speeds but to steering movement speeds. They are fully adjustable and the slow circuit, which isn't really slow slow, is great for removing the side to side jiggle that you get on bumpy gravel roads, the Fast circuit will damp any abrupt change in wheel direction like when you hit the edge of a rut, or a pothole on the road.

Most 'stock' dampers don't have adjustments typically and only one circuit. They are really there just to damp out any oscillations that might occur from an unbalanced bike or it's wheels. No more head shake or death wobbles. It seems like someone in the bike world is onto this, here's the Pademelon CS.1, a true steering damper designed for MTB.

If you have to ask the price, then it's too expensive for you lol. Designed and made in Tasmania.

It's very similar the the Scotts damper for dirtbikes, but the Scott's hydraulics are in the little gold package up top, not in the steerer tube like the Pademelon's

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-pademelon-cs1-steering-damper.html

a more in-depth read https://www.bikeradar.com/features/first-look-friday/pademelon-steering-damper

 

[PedalUma]

I have had back-to-back appointments and drop-ins today. One was a kid's MacFox. Dad pulled a thorn from it and the rear slowly deflated. Instead of removing the rear hub-motor's wheel and replacing the tube, I sold a FlatOut injection for $15. It lasts for ten-years, or the life of the tire. For just the price of one tube. Dad wanted both tubes injected. It cost him $30. The thing is, a gallon of FlatOut costs me $60 and I can do 60 bike tubes with it. $15 x 60 = $900. And $900 - $60 = $840 profit. The bike took ten minutes to do. While father and son waited in comfortable chairs with garden views. A flat fixed on a hub-motor bike in ten minutes! Regular bike shops want $40 labor to replace the rear tube, plus $20 for the tube. For half the price of taking it to a regular bike shop and waiting a week for one flat, he got both tubes protected in minutes. And I made $28. $28 x 6 = $128 per hour. I will also get a 5-star local review on Google Maps worth about $50. $28 + $50 = $78 for ten minutes. $78 x 6 = $468 per hour. All with a happy customer who will tell friends. They Googled 'highest star rated bike mechanic, Petaluma'.

 

[spokewrench]

Patrice developed a wobble at the back of the bike. It took a while to figure out that it was a loose front axle.

Was it the quick-release kind? My Radpower bikes had them and I hated them. They would release fast, but they took me longer to put on, and they weren't foolproof, which is bad for a potentially dangerous device.

One morning before mounting my Radmission, I shoved it from the side and something moved. The front axle was loose. I noticed a washer under the serrated nut at the end opposite the lever. Huh? It was a very hard stainless steel. I remembered that I'd put the wheel on that way because that was how it had come. I assume the enamel on the dropout was elastic enough for the serrations on the nut to bite when the lever was clamped. The nut had worked loose because the serrations couldn't grab the hard steel washer. I removed the washer and had no more trouble.

I wasn't smart enough to see the problem when I put the bike together. Most washers are softer than that one. Did a disgruntled employee in China put it in the wheel assembly?