California Assembly member proposes driver's license for e-bikes

[Jeremy McCreary]

They will regulate and require licenses', registration, insurance etc. Everything must be under their control.

Then what's your solution? There's a real problem here, and ignoring it will ultimately result in more regulation than necessary.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

The whole e-bike story arc is another "this is why we can't have nice things" story.

A small minority of damned fools poisons a good and valuable thing for everybody.

Whether that is obnoxious and unregulated e-bikes that are basically electric motorcycles, obnoxious cyclists endangering innocent bystanders and themselves, or shoddy and ramshackle batteries and chargers causing disastrous fires, we are firmly on track to lose the whole product category.

 

[Ken M]

It would seem reasonable to me, that anyone driving a vehicle of any sort (bike, ebike, scooter, moped ....) on public roads, should at a minimum pass a driver handbook test so they know signage rules and procedures, have ID registration and some sort of insurance coverage...

Bikes have a long history of being a "vehicle" that has use control traffic laws but does not require license, registration, or insurance requirements. I think if those "costs" get imposed on ebikes then they have a far lower appeal to get people out of cars because they simply will not replace car ownership for the vast majority (they can only supplement transportation needs but the more trips done by bike the more healthy someone will be and they will also save money that pays the cost of the ebike).

The federal definition for a Low Speed Electric Bicycle (LSEB) in HR727 is ideal because it met the NHTSA demands to release the legal purview of LSEBs to the CPSC and it also defined them as the equivalent of any other type of bike. Obviously the oil and gas and auto industry doesn't want to this to stand as they know ebikes are capable of reducing total mileage of car trips.

I ride ebikes but I fully respect the traffic laws if I'm on a public road (rare because I tend too only use streets with designated bike lanes) so I get the anger when some spandex wearing road bike rider is riding right down the middle of the street and slowing traffic because they feel it's their right as a legal vehicle. Well in reality it's not because they are supposed to be as far right as possible and few of them respect that. When bikes or ebiks are sharing a sidewalk or multi-use path they need to ride at a safe speed for maneuvering around pedestrians. That said, the few times I've encountered issues with pedestrians it was because they wanted to block me and said bikes didn't belong on the sidewalk (so pedestrians can be idiots as well and maybe Darwin will address that with time).

 

[TinkyWinky]

Licenses', registration, insurance etc Money money money, out of your pockets and into theirs. Simple as that.

 

[Ken M]

Funny I got assurance from the People for Bikes legal counsel that they never wanted to push ebikes in this direction but I told him that the class system would provide the path for the states to require licenses, registration, and insurance on at least Class 3 models just as happened in Europe. '

 

[m@Robertson]

Funny I got assurance from the People for Bikes legal counsel that they never wanted to push ebikes in this direction but I told him that the class system would provide the path for the states to require licenses, registration, and insurance on at least Class 3 models just as happened in Europe. '

You misunderstood the proposed legislation. It is aimed purely, solely at young children who have never had any form of driver education and no rules-of-the-road instruction. They would be the only ones eligible for this education/license - assuming it ever makes it into law in the first place.

It also has nothing whatsoever to do with the class system you are always going on and on about.

 

[TinkyWinky]

Funny I got assurance from the People for Bikes legal counsel that they never wanted to push ebikes in this direction but I told him that the class system would provide the path for the states to require licenses, registration, and insurance on at least Class 3 models just as happened in Europe. '

Just watch. They will do it if it means more money for the city/state.

 

[6zfshdb]

Many towns in my part of the state have a problem with kids getting hurt while riding ATV's. Several have passed ordinances requiring those riders under 16 to be licensed and take a safety course. Most just ignored the law and enforcement was non existent. Although well meaning, it was an exercise in futility.

Maybe on a state level, especially California, such a law would be more effective. I think the principle is a good one though and I hope they can make it work.

 

[m@Robertson]

Maybe on a state level, especially California, such a law would be more effective. I think the principle is a good one though and I hope they can make it work.

No it will be just as futile. Imagine for a moment the police setting up checkpoints and getting IDs from children who may be under 12 years old to see if they are allowed to ride an ebike. Or citing a 13 year old for riding an ebike without carrying their license. I won't argue that there aren't kids out there doing dumb stuff on ebikes, but enforcement will look real stupid real fast if it is even so much as attempted.

Think of how much enforcement goes on for using hand signals on bikes, or for always keeping your headlights on when your windshield wipers are in use. Both of those laws have been around for years here.

 

[Brian-s]

The other downside to that is we already have a problem in America or one out of every three people has some sort of arrest record even if it's just traffic violations. Now we can start that statistic to include minors.

I agree that something needs to be done for people who aren't suitable for writing e-bikes. But as today on the Ohio canal topath showed I'm still more concerned about the high speed fitness junkies then I'm about e-bikers. And I don't think citing/ticketing those people would help much either

 

[Ken M]

You misunderstood the proposed legislation. It is aimed purely, solely at young children who have never had any form of driver education and no rules-of-the-road instruction. They would be the only ones eligible for this education/license - assuming it ever makes it into law in the first place.

It also has nothing whatsoever to do with the class system you are always going on and on about.

Have you noticed that many of the new models have multi-mode programming. 3-class is NOT working. The CPSC still owns what defines a compliant Low Speed Electric Bicycle that is legal for sale in all 50 states.

We can discuss the regulations but I do care about the future of ebikes which will need effective regulations and I still believe the federal definition in HR727 was working for product compliance and the states should have focused on "use" as a bike.

It is heartbreaking to here about a kid being seriously injured in an ebike accident but I'm guessing that in the vast majority of cases it really wasn't related to them being on an ebike...it was just the danger of being on any bike.

 

[J.R.]

 

[Brian-s]

Ah to be young and stupidly immortal again

 

[PDoz]

Interesting to see there's only one female in that group, although scary to consider the genetic implications. Consider the risk / reward / skill combination isn't going to take to compete for her attention, and them amplify that by whatever gene pool she came from!

Having said that , show me another group of kids that size who will go into a convenience store and line up to pay. Or be outside and active instead of stuck behind a screen. Lots of laughter, smiles, even " are you ok" after someone crashes. Give those kids somewhere decent to ride, a bit of leadership culture, and perhaps introduce the option of risk mitigation - there is hope.

 

[Slaphappygamer]

Kids do s*it like this in parking lots. To impress the other kids watching. It’s like a side show. This is why we can’t have nice things.

Agreed! Kids need a safe place to ride these emotos. Like maybe an airport runway.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

When bikes or ebiks are sharing a sidewalk or multi-use path they need to ride at a safe speed for maneuvering around pedestrians. That said, the few times I've encountered issues with pedestrians it was because they wanted to block me and said bikes didn't belong on the sidewalk (so pedestrians can be idiots as well and maybe Darwin will address that with time).

Everywhere I've ever lived, bikes did NOT belong on sidewalks by law.

I want pedestrians to stay out of my safe zones —i.e., designated bike lanes. (Big problem here in coastal SoCal, especially with runners.) Hard to expect compliance if bikers feel free to invade sidewalks, the pedestrians' safe zones.

 

[Slaphappygamer]

I’ll admit. I’ve taken the sidewalk. Only when there is road construction and it is unsafe to merge with traffic that isn’t letting you in, because they are in a hurry. On the sidewalk, I travel at 8 mph ringing my bell.

 

[Delverc]

I’ve been through a few policy shifts like this, and having some kind of ID requirement didn’t slow me down much. I already kept an international driver license on me for travel and rentals, and it came in handy as a quick backup ID when local rules changed. If the bill goes through, something simple like that can make the whole process feel less awkward.

 

[Ken M]

Reported by Micah Toll, and commented on by Kyle Chittock, California Assembly Bill # 530 introduced by Tasha Boerner representing the 77th District, would require a written test, state issued ID, and impose a ban on riding e-bikes under age 12 or Class 3 e-bikes under age 16. Fox News reports the bill was initiated following calls for action after the death of a teenager this summer in the Assembly Member's home district.

Kids have been riding bikes on public roads (such as neighborhood streets) for 100 years without licenses or insurance. Yes, kids on 2 wheels is dangerous but the danger to others is minimal - it's vehicles hitting people on bikes that is the majority of the safety problems and this goes for ebikes as well. I do agree that parents need to do a better job helping their kids understand how to be as safe as possible and to keep out of streets as much as possible (remain on sidewalks when possible).

The idea that an ebike that can assist to 20mph or even 28mph is the real safety threat is simply not true. Most riders on anolog bikes achieve speeds in that range on downhills and can even achieve those speeds on flats for some distance will effort. There really is not added safety risk because ebikes can average higher speeds but that is what is implied over and over again by these threads.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

There really is not added safety risk because ebikes can average higher speeds but that is what is implied over and over again by these threads

Strongly disagree. Ebikes enable weak, untrained riders (like kids who'd never leave their screens for bicycles otherwise) to reach and maintain speeds otherwise well out of their reach on flats and hills.

The lower-end RadRunner-type ebikes typically ridden by kids here in coastal SoCal are also usually 2-3 times heavier than unmotorized bikes, and their Surron-like e-motos can be even heavier.

So, double the mass and speed and you have an ebike with EIGHT TIMES the kinetic energy to deposit into the pedestrian it hits. That alone completely changes the injury potential.

But powerful ebikes also enable weak, untrained, judgment-deficient riders to do wheelies and other dangerous stunts on busy streets and MUPs and donuts and rooster tails in parks and on trails. And that's exactly what many of the teen male ebikers here do.

All of which is precisely why this sign just appeared at a nearby park:

This in a place where seemingly everybody young and old has an ebike and can ride it year round. And where local governments have spent literally billions (in San Diego County alone) on infrastructure to promote bicycles as car replacements and healthy outdoor recreation.

We're losing the bushel for failure to identify and deal directly with the bad apples — complicit manufacturers, dealers, and parents included.