Brand new tire blew off the rim

[fooferdoggie]

this is a DT Swiss 540 rim with maybe 4000 miles on it with tubed tires. our tandems front wheel was getting rebuilt with this exact setup so I put this wheel on ran tubed tires but then realized it will be the same setup so made it tubeless. two layers of dt-swiss tape pulled snug and pressed down very well with the rim cleaned tin alcohol first. the tires went on with no tool like it did on my other rims. brand new Scwalbe marathon almotion tubeless tire on its a 700x38 tire. I have used two of these tires on velocity cliffhangers just fine.
the tire sealed well I used muc-off sealant. set the bead added sealant went riding 20 minutes later it had not lost any air before we rode. 7 miles to the store came out and t was at 30 psi used co-2 rode home. it was low this afternoon like expected filled it to 60 psi (its 50 to 70) and we hoped on got maybe 100 feet and the tire totally blew off the rim. took about 10 feet to stop the bike rolling on the rim. for some reason sealant doesn't to work well on a disc. wife and I hauled the bike back home. I checked I don't see anything wrong with the rim but the damage from rolling on the pavement and the tire looks perfect.

 

[PDoz]

I'm not certain, but I think 60 psi is approaching the RIM limit?

There is a chart here

https://www.dtswiss.com/pmt/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/10/00/00/00/86/6/MAN_WXD10000000866S_WEB_ZZ_001.pdf

 

[fooferdoggie]

I'm not certain, but I think 60 psi is approaching the RIM limit?

There is a chart here

https://www.dtswiss.com/pmt/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/10/00/00/00/86/6/MAN_WXD10000000866S_WEB_ZZ_001.pdf

ya its 80 with tubed tires. the cliffhangers were fin at 60 and they are far wider rims.

 

[PDoz]

ya its 80 with tubed tires. the cliffhangers were fin at 60 and they are far wider rims.

I thought you had it set up tubeless?

 

[PDoz]

Gotta admit, i've had variable results tubeless - admittedly this is 4/5 peoples bikes over a 6 year period .

The first was a nightmare - initial installation by lbs, at least 3 hours trying to get a reliable result myself overthe following month, then another 2 hours at the shop where I learnt HEAPS but still had a leak - I eventually spotted the microscopic split along the rim tape allowing air and sealant to run into the rim cavity! Once fixed, that tyre lasted one ride before the sidewall was sliced by a sharp rock!

I've had 2/3 tyres burp off the rim in use - usually under extreme conditions eg high speed landings sideways into berms , the first 1/2 landings seem to allow pressure drops because the tyre starts feeling squirmy, if I'm silly enough to continue if can then pop off.

The other week, a freshly fitted tyre dropped pressure overnight. I was certain it was correctly seated, but on closer inspection there was a flat spot on the inside lip of the rim ( not visible with the tyre on and no detectable buckle) . No idea what I hit, but thanks for the reminder to go visit the lbs....

 

[fooferdoggie]

I think it was two things. DT-swiss says 59 psi for that size tire. but Also I grabbed the 23 wide tape not the 25 the rim is 23 they dont even label their tape so I got them mixed up. so I bet the combo of the two. You have to go riding right after or the tires wont seal. they need that constant turning to really seal well. found this out many times.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Mostly I have had loose valves. Now I double nut them right away.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I thought you had it set up tubeless?

cracked rim. so I was using my backup bikes rim because I could not fit the bikes original wheel with the tire under the new fender.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I've been very happy with my tubeless tire setups on my e-gravel and regular road bike, but just a couple of days ago I had the rim tape on my road bike fail. My local bike shop mec said that older rim tape can become brittle over time (5 years on my bike) and can crack, allowing air to get under the tape.
Lots of fun getting the old tape off.
Going tubeless is great, but there are trade-offs.

Glad the blowout didn't cause a crash. That would have been nasty.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I've been very happy with my tubeless tire setups on my e-gravel and regular road bike, but just a couple of days ago I had the rim tape on my road bike fail. My local bike shop mec said that older rim tape can become brittle over time (5 years on my bike) and can crack, allowing air to get under the tape.
Lots of fun getting the old tape off.
Going tubeless is great, but there are trade-offs.

Glad the blowout didn't cause a crash. That would have been nasty.

ya I just had trouble getting the bike to stop since it was on a slope. I think I will have the rim replaced it's not banged up much by why take a chance? the tire seems fine but not sure.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Isn't it a fact you should not run tubeless at high inflation pressure? The tubeless are made to be used under lowered inflation, and that's the great benefit of the technology.

 

[fooferdoggie]

ok I found the problem. there are two versions of that tire one tubeless ready and one not. looking at the website the tires are identical but the tubed tire is a bit lighter. the first two tires I bought where labeled as tubeless but I think they are the tubed version. but they are working fine as tubeless on the cliffhanger rims. I don't know for sure because schwalbe does not put TLE or such on their tires so no way to check but on the packaging. maybe the tubeless version of that tire can go lower then 50 psi but who knows? I think I nee to find a tire that can go down lower then 50 so I can keep the pressure lower then 60 and have some leeway.

​

 

[RockhopperMidwest]

That is scary. I found one video of the tubeless almotion and it says TLE on the sidewall if you pause it right away:

Yours doesnt say TLE anywhere? Even if yours is the tubed version I cant believe that alone would cause the tire to pop off. 60psi does seem high but who knows.

I am really interested in tubeless commuter tires so these had my interest. I have been using Surly Extraterreestrials for the past year tubeless at about 30ish psi.

 

[fooferdoggie]

That is scary. I found one video of the tubeless almotion and it says TLE on the sidewall if you pause it right away:

Yours doesnt say TLE anywhere? Even if yours is the tubed version I cant believe that alone would cause the tire to pop off. 60psi does seem high but who knows.

I am really interested in tubeless commuter tires so these had my interest. I have been using Surly Extraterreestrials for the past year tubeless at about 30ish psi.

thats text on the tire is much different then on mine it may be older. . my other tires don't say tubeless and they are. its kinda of stupid to make the same tire with one tubeless and one not and if you look at the description they are identical but for the tubeless one a little heavier. but they have worked fine on the velocity cliffhanger rims for 8 months. from what others told me 60 psi is too high but the tire only goes down to 50 and I had one tear at the bead when I was lower for a bit. so I need a tire that will go to 40 psi. so bought these guys and they even say 10psi lower for tubeless.
looks at amazon it says tubeless Burt when I looked up the part number it was the tube version. locally universal cycles has the tubed version only and bike tires direct as the tubeless version.
going to try these guys as they should run at 50. https://www.panaracerusa.com/products/gravelking-slick-folding-gravel-tires

 

[indianajo]

I had a panaracer fire xc tire blow off the rim first ride. I ride tubes and the rims are for tubes. Tube blew out through the gap. I use about 55 psi. I bought a $26 Giant tire from the LBS to replace it. Panaracer was a waste of $40. I blame the fold flat delivery concept but I really have no idea. That rim was fine, came with the Mac12t motor and I rode it another year before rain burned up the controller & motor harness.
I had a diamondback MTB that several tires blew out the tube through a gap, but I think that rim was undersized. I was buying kenda tires in those days, on other rims worked fine. It was a $200 kiddie bike I bought used (since I am small and kiddie market bikes fit me). Other downfalls of kiddie bikes, the 8 mm thick axle breaks, the plastic crank arms wear out in 4000 miles, the imitation steel cables require constant adjustment. I wouldn't have bought a $2000 yuba but the frame fit was so perfect to my short legs & long back, and the front loading (stretch frame) solved the problem of bikes throwing me over the handlebars on my chin. I didn't realize one would receive better components at that price point.

 

[ava1ar]

I personally see no benefit to go tubeless for ebikes. Weight is not an issue and otherwise tubeless setup has no benefits. Anyone with opposite opinion?

 

[fooferdoggie]

I personally see no benefit to go tubeless for ebikes. Weight is not an issue and otherwise tubeless setup has no benefits. Anyone with opposite opinion?

its give and take. on our tandem going from marathon plus to tubeless gave us a much smoother ride and we could accelerate much better. anything less then the marathons and we had too many flats. on my trek I went from the stock 2.3" tires to 2" tubes and the difference was dramatic. I would go about 3 mph faster I had on my commutes my 7 or 8 miles more range and I Could accelerate much faster. Now if I ran those same tires with tubes it Ould be close to the same. but once I worked the bugs I caused out the tires hold air longer and I haven to had a flat.

 

[ava1ar]

I think this differences are mostly due to tires themselves, rather than related to tube/tubeless setup. I have pair of Schwalbe Marathon GT 365 Tire 700x50 for winter/offroad and they are significantly slower than Schwalbe Energizer Plus 700x45 I ride most of the time. I doubt that converting to tubeless make any visible difference here.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I personally see no benefit to go tubeless for ebikes. Weight is not an issue and otherwise tubeless setup has no benefits. Anyone with opposite opinion?

Two other reasons:

1. You can fix the vast majority of flats without removing a wheel. And given that most e-bike riders are unable to remove their rear wheel and fix a flat this is a Big Deal.
2. You can safely run at lower tire pressure without risk of snakebite, so especially in problematic traction (snow, mud, sand) tubeless can help a lot.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

When I first read this thread my immediate reaction was that you had put a non-tubeless tire on by mistake. Unlikely that the dimensions of the rim tape pushed the tire off the rim.