Brand new tire blew off the rim

[Stefan Mikes]

You can safely run at lower tire pressure without risk of snakebite, so especially in problematic traction (snow, mud, sand) tubeless can help a lot.

It is greatly cushioning your rides, too.
Small tubeless tyre punctures seal themselves transparently to the rider.

 

[ava1ar]

Two other reasons:

1. You can fix the vast majority of flats without removing a wheel. And given that most e-bike riders are unable to remove their rear wheel and fix a flat this is a Big Deal.
2. You can safely run at lower tire pressure without risk of snakebite, so especially in problematic traction (snow, mud, sand) tubeless can help a lot.

1. See the point, but didn't expect removing the wheel is such an issue in general. How do people ride longer distances knowing if they get the rear flat they can't fix it?! Hoping for the best? I always have at least one tube with me on any rides and if I am going to longer one, I take 2 with me.
2. Can't comment on this - in NYC last few years we didn't see much snow, so can't even say how good/bad my Marathon GT 365 on it. However, ebikes are heavier than normal bikes (and heavier a lot usually) - won't this mean you need a noticeably higher tire pressure, which eliminates this advantage?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

1. See the point, but didn't expect removing the wheel is such an issue in general. How do people ride longer distances knowing if they get the rear flat they can't fix it?! Hoping for the best? I always have at least one tube with me on any rides and if I am going to longer one, I take 2 with me.
2. Can't comment on this - in NYC last few years we didn't see much snow, so can't even say how good/bad my Marathon GT 365 on it. However, ebikes are heavier than normal bikes (and heavier a lot usually) - won't this mean you need a noticeably higher tire pressure, which eliminates this advantage?

I've been reading these forum posts for years and I am shocked at how many people here are unable or unwilling to fix a flat in the field. Their "plan" as such is to either call an UberX or Mom.

On your second point, it all kind of Depends. You can definitely run lower tire pressures with tubeless on an e-bike, though probably not as low as you'd run on a lighter bike. This does get into what I consider the Big Problems with tubeless on an e-bike, though:

1. Most e-bikes don't come with rims that are suitable for tubeless. So you'll need new rims and possibly a new wheel build if you have a rear hub motor.

2. Most e-bike rated tires aren't made in tubeless versions, and there is relatively modest selection on e-bike rated tubeless tires. You'll either be ordering online or your LBS will need to special order them.

3. If you can navigate 1. and 2., you still have the challenge of making sure your rims and tires are compatible. A dirty little secret of tubeless is that not all tubeless tires work with any given tubeless rim. So you'll be going through some trail and error, possibly at considerable expense, to figure out what will work for you.

4. If you are doing this yourself at home, there is a bunch of stuff you are going to have to buy. And working on tubeless tires is messy so you'll need a mop and bucket. Don't try it indoors on new carpeting!

 

[ava1ar]

Small tubeless tyre punctures seal themselves transparently to the rider.

I probably spoiled by Schwalbe, but I don't know what small punctures are - it is either no puncture or it is pretty big!

Here are some photos of my last two - don't think tubeless will help here somehow...

 

[RockhopperMidwest]

Small tubeless tyre punctures seal themselves transparently to the rider.

Exactly, this is the main appeal.

How do people ride longer distances knowing if they get the rear flat they can't fix it?! Hoping for the best? I always have at least one tube with me on any rides and if I am going to longer one, I take 2 with me.

I still carry a spare tube and tools, etc. everywhere. Can always put a tube and patch in if the tire is badly damaged. The tubeless setup just stops small punctures on its own which is really nice especially when commuting where I really don't want to have to stop and fix something. I have always found the mess to be overstated, and even if it was messy id rather deal with a mess at home than have to stop during a ride.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Both of those could be fixed on the road with tire plugs, the one on the right might seal just fine on its own without much help.

Even if you run tubeless, you'll need pump, tire plugs, a valve core remover, spare sealant, and probably a spare valve core or two.

If you are going someplace remote and sketchy, I'd also add a tire boot, a spare tube, shoe goo, and a big sewing awl and kite string. Those are all to repair major rips in your tire.

Most people I know run tubeless, and most of them have never had to do more than air the tire back up to fix a flat.

I probably spoiled by Schwalbe, but I don't know what small punctures are - it is either no puncture or it is pretty big!

Here are some photos of my last two - don't think tubeless will help here somehow...


View attachment 160088View attachment 160089

 

[ava1ar]

Both of those could be fixed on the road with tire plugs, the one on the right might seal just fine on its own without much help.

Left side is more tricky - the screw went out near rim, so there are 2 wholes and 2nd is very close to the rim. Also it damaged a rim a bit - I didn't notice it before and wasted 2 tubes, which got small holes damaged by the rim itself. May be this can also be patched easier with tubeless, but I personally will stay with tubes. It is probably more labor involved, but familiar and easy to do if you are prepared.

 

[mschwett]

I personally see no benefit to go tubeless for ebikes. Weight is not an issue and otherwise tubeless setup has no benefits. Anyone with opposite opinion?

no benefits? lol.

far, far fewer flats than a tire with comparable ride quality would provide. the benefit of tubeless is being able to have your cake and eat it too : few flats, improved ride quality, lower rolling resistance and maybe reduced weight. the weight part depends what kind of tire and tube.

for people who pedal their e-bikes or care about range, rolling resistance and to a lesser degree weight are important but the other factors are of value to everyone.

 

[mschwett]

…

Even if you run tubeless, you'll need pump, tire plugs, a valve core remover, spare sealant, and probably a spare valve core or two.

…

that seems excessive for most on-road or on-gravel use. appropriate i’m sure for long unsupported trekking or adventure type trips, but all i’ve ever needed has been dynaplugs and a co2 inflator (or pump if preferred.) used it once in the last 12,000 tubeless miles.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I

no benefits? lol.

far, far fewer flats than a tire with comparable ride quality would provide. the benefit of tubeless is being able to have your cake and eat it too : few flats, improved ride quality, lower rolling resistance and maybe reduced weight. the weight part depends what kind of tire and tube.

for people who pedal their e-bikes or care about range, rolling resistance and to a lesser degree weight are important but the other factors are of value to everyone.

with our tandem flats are a big pain its a beast to change a flat. if I did not have marathon tires on we would get flat or two a month. with the tires I ahve now I had one or two low tires I had to stop to put air in. I had a lot of issues mostly my fault to deal with but that was mostly me. but it can be expensive to change over and if you have to put a tube it its extremely messy.

 

[mschwett]

I probably spoiled by Schwalbe, but I don't know what small punctures are - it is either no puncture or it is pretty big!

Here are some photos of my last two - don't think tubeless will help here somehow...


View attachment 160088View attachment 160089

i can’t tell what the object in the second one is, but it’s entirely possible that a tubeless setup would not even have deflated below usable pressure until you removed the screw / object… at which point a couple plugs and a quick reinflation would have kept you rolling.

it’s not 100% - i had a small cut which seemed like it should have sealed but didn’t hold past 30psi no matter what i did, but 30psi was plenty on a tubeless tire to finish my ride.

 

[ava1ar]

far, far fewer flats than a tire with comparable ride quality would provide.

I am not sure why flat is such an issue honestly - two cases I posted above are the only I got for > 4000 miles within two years. Probably if you constantly getting flats you should consider tubeless, but if you don't get them, why bother?

improved ride quality, lower rolling resistance and maybe reduced weight

I checked an article on RR and improvement is RR is only makes sense on non electric bikes and difference is negligible for ebike cases. Same for weight. Not sure about what "improved ride quality" means.

If I have to build fast and lightweight road bike today, I would definitely go tubeless. If I am riding pretty heavy class 3 e-bike with proper puncture-proof tires, I doubt I will notice any measurable improvements when going tubeless. Yes, you are totally OK to do that if you prefer tubeless, but please stop pretending it makes much difference on ebikes.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I am not sure why flat is such an issue honestly - two cases I posted above are the only I got for > 4000 miles within two years. Probably if you constantly getting flats you should consider tubeless, but if you don't get them, why bother?

I checked an article on RR and improvement is RR is only makes sense on non electric bikes. Same for weight. Not sure about what "improved ride quality" means.

If I have to build fast and lightweight road bike today, I would definitely go tubeless. If I am riding pretty heavy class 3 e-bike with proper puncture-proof tires, I doubt I will notice any measurable improvements when going tubeless. Yes, you are totally OK to do that if you prefer tubeless, but please stop pretending it makes much difference on ebikes.

I doubt if you dont have a good mid drive your going to feel it. unless you can go way down in tire size. but when I got 3mph faster speeds and more range and I could accelerate much better it was a great feeling. Lower psi tires work much better with sealant so its not as much if an issue.

 

[ava1ar]

I got 3mph faster speeds and more range and I could accelerate much better

Just because of tubeless? Are you comparing same tire or at least similar one? I can feed the difference between road vs offroad tire for sure, but 3mph just for tubeless? Looks way to good to be true.
When you are riding on regular bike, all watts are yours and every watt matters, but on ebike when each watt you provide ebikes adds 1-2-3 more, few watts difference can be ignored.

Any articles / posts about more or less accurate measurements on tubeless tires on ebikes? Looking for research for tires alone, the difference is max 3-4 watts, which is nothing. Honestly don't see where 3mph can be found here...

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I suspect that over the next couple of years tubeless will largely take over, outside of very inexpensive and entry-level bikes like you'd buy at a Big Box Store. At that point we won't have much choice. Hopefully by that time the selection and availability of tubeless e-bike rated tires will improve.

Rolling Resistance does matter because it directly impacts range of an e-bike.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Just because of tubeless? Are you comparing same tire or at least similar one? I can feed the difference between road vs offroad tire for sure, but 3mph just for tubeless? Looks way to good to be true.
When you are riding on regular bike, all watts are yours and every watt matters, but on ebike when each watt you provide ebikes adds 1-2-3 more, few watts difference can be ignored.

Any articles / posts about more or less accurate measurements on tubeless tires on ebikes? Looking for research for tires alone, the difference is max 3-4 watts, which is nothing. Honestly don't see where 3mph can be found here...

no it was the tire change. I doubt you would notice much if you changed between tube and tubeless. what I have found are tubeless tires are often much more flexible. even going from the stock 2.5" tires to 2" tires I have a softer ride at the same psi faster and much better acceleration. but tubeless let me use tires that would be puncture prone with a tube.

 

[ava1ar]

I suspect that over the next couple of years tubeless will largely take over, outside of very inexpensive and entry-level bikes like you'd buy at a Big Box Store.

Any reason for this to happen that fast. I just checked super expensive R&M and it is not tubeless. Even Specialized Turbo Vado 5.0 is not tubeless. if there is some tubeless revolution in ebike happening right now, big brands are ignoring it. Or you are talking about non-electic bikes here?

Rolling Resistance does matter because it directly impacts range of an e-bike.

I totally agree the impact is there. My question is how visible is it? Too many things impacts your range already and I doubt if tubeless saving will be noticeable. Just ride 1 mph slower and you will save more than any other way. Or just inflate your tires if you plan to ride on asphalt and you will get your watts saving back without tubeless.

 

[ava1ar]

no it was the tire change. I doubt you would notice much if you changed between tube and tubeless. what I have found are tubeless tires are often much more flexible. even going from the stock 2.5" tires to 2" tires I have a softer ride at the same psi faster and much better acceleration. but tubeless let me use tires that would be puncture prone with a tube.

Now that makes sense.

I doubt you would notice much if you changed between tube and tubeless.

This is exactly my point. It is totally fine to go tubeless because you want specific tire or just don't like tubes, but it has nothing to do with getting to the next level in weight, RR or range just because you throw the tubes away. Some tubeless people here try to make an impression switching tubeless made a great impact. Comparing to your old tire - may be. Comparing to same tire in tubed setup - no way.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Any reason for this to happen that fast. I just checked super expensive R&M and it is not tubeless. Even Specialized Turbo Vado 5.0 is not tubeless. if there is some tubeless revolution in ebike happening right now, big brands are ignoring it. Or you are talking about non-electic bikes here?

I totally agree the impact is there. My question is how visible is it? Too many things impacts your range already and I doubt if tubeless saving will be noticeable. Just ride 1 mph slower and you will save more than any other way. Or just inflate your tires if you plan to ride on asphalt and you will get your watts saving back without tubeless.

My own guess is that the unsprung weight change and rolling resistance changes adds up to on the order of 5 or 10 percent. Whether that matters to you is a larger question. If you are already riding at the edge of your effective range it probably does.

Basically I think this will happen because the bike industry is both very concentrated and also has a profound herd instinct. So just how caliper brakes and front derailleurs have disappeared in the last ten years (outside of a few cottage industry manufacturers and weird holdouts) I suspect that tubeless tires (and more importantly, rims) will become your only practical choice in a very short time. This doesn't have anything to do with technical merit and everything to do with the bizarre ways the bike industry "works".

 

[mschwett]

I am not sure why flat is such an issue honestly - two cases I posted above are the only I got for > 4000 miles within two years. Probably if you constantly getting flats you should consider tubeless, but if you don't get them, why bother?

I checked an article on RR and improvement is RR is only makes sense on non electric bikes and difference is negligible for ebike cases. Same for weight. Not sure about what "improved ride quality" means.

If I have to build fast and lightweight road bike today, I would definitely go tubeless. If I am riding pretty heavy class 3 e-bike with proper puncture-proof tires, I doubt I will notice any measurable improvements when going tubeless. Yes, you are totally OK to do that if you prefer tubeless, but please stop pretending it makes much difference on ebikes.

i’m not “pretending.” i have a couple e-bikes, some tubeless, some not. ditto non e-bikes. i’ve switched them back and forth. ride quality on a heavy bike with the associated high pressures required to avoid pinch flats is crappy.

you simply cannot run tubes tires at low pressures unless you want to get lots of pinch flats. regardless of the bike, a bigger tire at lower pressure is more comfortable, and faster on anything but the smoothest surfaces.

people go to great lengths to make their e-bikes comfortable - shocks, full suspension, fancy seat posts and stems, padded bars and seats, gloves, padded shorts - so it’s not like ride comfort isn’t an issue. the single cheapest and most effective way to improve ride quality on any bike, whether it weighs 15lb or 75lb, is a larger, more supple, tubeless tire at the lowest feasible pressure.

there are no tubed tires with excellent ride quality that are not flat prone. it’s just the nature of the beast, an inherent tradeoff between rigidity and toughness and ride comfort. sure, you could ride armored tires with tubes and not get flats. ride such a bike back to back on typical roads with properly set up, good quality tubeless tires at low pressure.