Have to ask probably very dumb question on wasting charge cycles

[FrankR]

So, sometimes I swap batteries for charging, and sometimes I just charge inside the bike.

Probable dumb question - if I am charging inside the bike, and I have to interrupt the charge to move the bike, having to pull the plug out, does that waste a charge cycle?
Does a typical battery pack count charge cycles?

 

[AHicks]

So, sometimes I swap batteries for charging, and sometimes I just charge inside the bike.

Probable dumb question - if I am charging inside the bike, and I have to interrupt the charge to move the bike, having to pull the plug out, does that waste a charge cycle?
Does a typical battery pack count charge cycles?

Regarding charge cycle count, that's not something I would worry about. You might see some of the Bosch, Brose and bikes that use proprietary batteries doing that, but not the more generic types. Just a hunch, but based on my own experience, I think batteries that are treated well will have no trouble providing decent service lifes. You take care of your battery and it will take care of you....

 

[FrankR]

Thanks. Understood, but, would a non Bosch Lectric type battery be counting cycles, and count that as a cycle? Will such a battery shut itself down after counting the max cycles?

 

[AHicks]

Thanks. Understood, but, would a non Bosch Lectric type battery be counting cycles, and count that as a cycle? Will such a battery shut itself down after counting the max cycles?

I don't know for sure one way or the other, but I would say that would be a pretty dumb design if it did shut itself down.

 

[JES2020]

Will such a battery shut itself down after counting the max cycles?

No, The estimated life of a pack is it's cycle number.
Charging to half charge counts as a half charge.
Interesting enough, if you regularly only charge to 80% full, you extend the life of your battery to way more cycles than the 20% difference. I think you actually double your cycles if I remember correctly. Edit, it's actually 3 times more cycles at 80 %.

MORE FROM GRIN:

Benefits of Partial Charge​

One of the key benefits of the Cycle Satiator is its ability to let you easily control the charge level of your battery. It is now well known that most lithium chemistries (with the exception of LiFePO4) can see drastic improvements in calendar and cycle life when they are not held at the nominal full charge voltage of 4.2 V/cell but are charged to a lower voltage instead. That’s how electric car manufacturers are able to 5-8 year battery warranties on cells that usually only test to ~500 cycles.

 

[AHicks]

This is making a mountain out of a mole hill. Based on the specs. I've seen, most decent batteries are good for 600 or more "cycles". I average at least 30 miles between (100%) charges, so if you do the math - 600 charges x 30 miles, that's 18,000. miles.

That in mind, I seriously doubt the number of advertised charge cycles, OR whether you charge to 80% or 100% is going to make much difference in how long your battery is going to last.....

 

[JES2020]

No, The estimated life of a pack is it's cycle number.
Charging to half charge counts as a half charge.
Interesting enough, if you regularly only charge to 80% full, you extend the life of your battery to way more cycles than the 20% difference. I think you actually double your cycles if I remember correctly. Edit, it's actually 3 times more cycles at 80 %.
View attachment 128560

Source: GRIN TECHNOLOGIES

 

[JES2020]

This is making a mountain out of a mole hill. Based on the specs. I've seen, most decent batteries are good for 600 or more "cycles". I average at least 30 miles between (100%) charges, so if you do the math - 600 charges x 30 miles, that's 18,000. miles.

That in mind, I seriously doubt the number of advertised charge cycles, OR whether you charge to 80% or 100% is going to make much difference in how long your battery is going to last.....

Take it up with Grin !

 

[FrankR]

I wish I was getting 30 miles in between charges. Honestly, it's closer to 20 miles for me, and, I'm definitely practicing battery conservation with use of PA1 or PA2 and little to no throttle use.
I will, though, blame most of it on my weight, which is not good. Perhaps if I shed the 75 pounds I should shed, I'd see more miles per charge.

 

[Alaskan]

My understanding is that the battery life is reduced by charging and storing batteries at higher than 80%. The reduction occurs due to long term storage at above 80%.

If you keep your batteries stored at less than 80% and charge to 100% immediately before a ride so that it begins discharging right after being topped off, there is no notable reduction in battery life.

I have had four year old Bosch batteries that have over 10,000 miles and have been handled this way with no perceptible loss of capacity

 

[AHicks]

My understanding is that the battery life is reduced but charging and storing batteries at higher than 80%. The reduction occurs due to long term storage at above 80%.

If you keep your batteries stored at less than 80% and charge to 100% immediately before a ride so that it begins discharging right after being topped off, there is no notable reduction in battery life.

I have had four year old Bosch batteries that have over 10,000 miles and have been handled this way with no perceptible loss of capacity

My bikes are ridden daily. If they were sitting for a week between uses (or after being charged to 100%), I might look into the 80% thing. I have a RAD battery purchased in 2016 that's not showing any signs of decreased capacity. That battery could die tomorrow and I wouldn't feel bad. I believe I've got my money out of it....

 

[AHicks]

Take it up with Grin !

For what reason? I'm pretty sure my batteries are performing pretty well, especially in light of all the 80% mumbo jumbo and the fact it's charged to 100% every time....

I will say that my batteries, when I know I'm not going to use them for a while, are stored at 50% give or take....

 

[JES2020]

For what reason

It's not the storage issue that the Grin graph is addressing. It's the extra cycle you get by charging to the different volts.
There is NOTHING in the chart that indicates storage is even a factor.

 

[JES2020]

and storing

Storing is NOT a factor in Grin's graph.

 

[JES2020]

80% mumbo jumbo

That's why. If you doubt the chart, the prudent thing to do would be contact GRIN.

 

[Mike_V]

So, sometimes I swap batteries for charging, and sometimes I just charge inside the bike.

Probable dumb question - if I am charging inside the bike, and I have to interrupt the charge to move the bike, having to pull the plug out, does that waste a charge cycle?
Does a typical battery pack count charge cycles?

You may read about this concept without encountering the root cause of dendrites forming adjacent to spot welds or soldered connections to the cells.
Tesla and Luna use the wire bonding method
Here you see little degredation over cycling and is the newest data :https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=114486

 

[JES2020]

You may read about this concept without encountering the root cause of dendrites forming adjacent to spot welds or soldered connections to the cells.
Tesla and Luna use the wire bonding method
Here you see little degredation over cycling and is the newest data :https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=114486
View attachment 128571

Speaking of Tesla and other car manufactures , they are able to give longer warranties on their batteries, by only allowing less than 100% charge.
So it's very useful and far from hick's mumbo jumbo.

MORE FROM GRIN:

Benefits of Partial Charge​

One of the key benefits of the Cycle Satiator is its ability to let you easily control the charge level of your battery. It is now well known that most lithium chemistries (with the exception of LiFePO4) can see drastic improvements in calendar and cycle life when they are not held at the nominal full charge voltage of 4.2 V/cell but are charged to a lower voltage instead. That’s how electric car manufacturers are able to 5-8 year battery warranties on cells that usually only test to ~500 cycles.

 

[JES2020]

This is making a mountain out of a mole hill. Based on the specs. I've seen, most decent batteries are good for 600 or more "cycles". I average at least 30 miles between (100%) charges, so if you do the math - 600 charges x 30 miles, that's 18,000. miles.

That in mind, I seriously doubt the number of advertised charge cycles, OR whether you charge to 80% or 100% is going to make much difference in how long your battery is going to last.....

MORE FROM GRIN:​

Benefits of Partial Charge​

One of the key benefits of the Cycle Satiator is its ability to let you easily control the charge level of your battery. It is now well known that most lithium chemistries (with the exception of LiFePO4) can see drastic improvements in calendar and cycle life when they are not held at the nominal full charge voltage of 4.2 V/cell but are charged to a lower voltage instead. That’s how electric car manufacturers are able to 5-8 year battery warranties on cells that usually only test to ~500 cycles.

 

[tomjasz]

For what reason? I'm pretty sure my batteries are performing pretty well, especially in light of all the 80% mumbo jumbo and the fact it's charged to 100% every time....

I will say that my batteries, when I know I'm not going to use them for a while, are stored at 50% give or take....

SO! now science is mumbo jumbo? Come on Al. It's not just Grin. See the data Ravi has posted from a SCIENTIST! The batteries I religulously used my two Satiators on were the longest lasting. It's not something Justin pulled out of his arse. Don't let your criticism of the looks of the CA2 and CA3 cloud your thinking.

 

[tomjasz]

For what reason? I'm pretty sure my batteries are performing pretty well, especially in light of all the 80% mumbo jumbo and the fact it's charged to 100% every time....

I will say that my batteries, when I know I'm not going to use them for a while, are stored at 50% give or take....

FFS how many batteries are you basing this limited experience on?