Looks like a fun ride. My brother lives in Olympia, not far from a portion of your ride. I'm going to visit him in a couple of months and looking forward to it. No bike rides on that trip because I'm flying. I'm sure he and his wife will get me out on some foot trains though.
Specialized Creo (all models) - Longest Rides/Biggest Climbs
- Thread starter JonFox
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kahn
Well-Known Member
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- USA
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- northWET washington
It is a fun ride and it had been a number years since I did it - the last time on a non-e-bike!!! Mt Rainier offers some terrific hikes (Fremont Lookout). Mt St Helens is also fascinating, although from Seattle a real road trek!
Did your tour companions use ebikes as well?
My "system weight"on usual rides is similar. My only longer ride with others during the last 10 months was in September. We I did about 70 miles with 6400 feet and I used 89% (so 11% rest) of the main battery (no range extender). With range extender about 100 miles with 10000 feet would have been possible (for the battery, not for me...). All others were on acoustic/organic bikes without motor. Some were a little bit fitter than me, some where much/two classes fitter (and lighter) than me. With my amount of support (almost only level 1 with 25%) I was able to stay together with all the others all day, every time I tried for a short time more support (from 35-40% on), I was leaving behind all of them.
The Creos here in Europe are restricted to 25km/h. On asphalt road and if it's flat, this makes a huge difference to US Creos where you can use the Creo support almost always. Here your are mostly on your own over 25km/h on flat asphalt. But our 70 miles ride was a gravel tour with almost exactly your average speed, about 11-11.5 mph. So I think my battery consumption won't have been much higher with a US creo on this ride. Related to the time of our ride, my average consumption over all hours was 50 watts. Compared to level1 with 25%=60watts not much less, so maybe 15-20% of the ride over 25km/h without motor support.
Long story short, if the others rode ebikes as well, you all may have used a little bit more motor support. If you ride alone OR if all ride ebikes, you tend to use much more motor support (I do as well when I ride alone). But if your ride with others without motor (like on my tour) you realize how much only 20-25% support of the Creo/only 50 watts is... With this quite useful amount of support you can reach (and pass) the announced range of the Creo even with 225 or 235 lbs.
kahn
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- northWET washington
Yes, my companion also had a e-bike but one with substantially more climbing power. So on long hills she would take off and if the hill had traffic, even faster (g). So, yes, I might have been chasing and using more power on the ride.
I'm impressed - 70 miles and 6,400 feet of gain. Never mind on the main battery and no extender. Good work.
I like the term "acoustic" to describe non e-bikes. Kind of like electric guitar v. acoustic.
Where do you ride? I've driven some of the roads in the Swiss Alps, Chamonix and the Dolomites. I am not sure I could handle that.
I mostly ride in the small mountains around home (not the Alps, between 400 and 2900 feet), maybe inside a 60 mile radius. Also due to Corona, maybe soon also a little bit further away.
Try to do a longer ride with someone definitely much fitter and lighter on an acoustic bike. You will be suprised how little motor support you need to stay equal and that you will pass him/her easily with the motor support you are used to.
Try to do a longer ride with someone definitely much fitter and lighter on an acoustic bike. You will be suprised how little motor support you need to stay equal and that you will pass him/her easily with the motor support you are used to.
I did not have any new data here for long Creo rides. But a maybe interesting experience to the Vado SL and less trained riders.
We bought the Vado SL for my wife after several years with a quite old (and heavy...) Flyer with a 26V Panasonic drive. Due to my Creo experiences I believed the range for my wife (half of my weight...) endless. But as we fall under the 25km/h motor limit, I need the motor only uphill and in the flat I'm normally cycling "alone"/over the limit. My wife does not and is 90% of the time "in the limit". But I believed her quite fit and light and the light ebike and never using level 3 and level 2 reduced to 50%. But her needed battery/possible range is terrible, at least compared to my expectations/to my creo experiences, today about 50% battery for a quite flat ride of 26 miles (so about 50 miles maximum range). At the end this is ok and enough for her and similar to her other ebikes (with bigger batteries). But it's light years from what I fatso have on the Creo. Today I used another bike, but I did this tour already with the Creo. There I would need about 10-12% battery for this trip (as I said, 25km/h limit...) with a higher average speed and with our moderate speed from today maybe 6-7%.
It's frightening how much the motor can make you lazy. Maybe I will change her support for level 2 via App every month by 5% and next year she will be as fast as now with 5% support and 300 miles range... ;-)
We bought the Vado SL for my wife after several years with a quite old (and heavy...) Flyer with a 26V Panasonic drive. Due to my Creo experiences I believed the range for my wife (half of my weight...) endless. But as we fall under the 25km/h motor limit, I need the motor only uphill and in the flat I'm normally cycling "alone"/over the limit. My wife does not and is 90% of the time "in the limit". But I believed her quite fit and light and the light ebike and never using level 3 and level 2 reduced to 50%. But her needed battery/possible range is terrible, at least compared to my expectations/to my creo experiences, today about 50% battery for a quite flat ride of 26 miles (so about 50 miles maximum range). At the end this is ok and enough for her and similar to her other ebikes (with bigger batteries). But it's light years from what I fatso have on the Creo. Today I used another bike, but I did this tour already with the Creo. There I would need about 10-12% battery for this trip (as I said, 25km/h limit...) with a higher average speed and with our moderate speed from today maybe 6-7%.
It's frightening how much the motor can make you lazy. Maybe I will change her support for level 2 via App every month by 5% and next year she will be as fast as now with 5% support and 300 miles range... ;-)
kahn
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- northWET washington
How much more does her Vado weigh compared to your Creo. On my Creo, I'm seeing between 2% and 3% battery per mile but that generally includes hills here in Seattle. I am definitely too heavy but Specialized advertised range of 70-80 miles seems off in the case of your "light" wife? Or am I misinterpreting the range values? And maybe I'm not pedaling enough and therefore using more power than "normal!"
Her Vado with all her "stuff" has about 4kg/9lbs more than my naked Creo. But her husband has about 50kg/110lbs more than her... ;-)
I think our big range difference even with my weight is one half our 25km/h limit. So if it's flat I need maybe 0,5% per mile or less. But the other half of our range difference is because she (like so many others with ebikes) is used to let the motor do to much work. I feeled our 25km/h limit here always as terrible and longed for a 45km/h Creo in the beginning. But not anymore, the 25km/h limit with the SL drive is no real limit, no brusk "wall" like on other ebikes, but it forces me to work much more. And for my rides it doesn't matter if I cycle 2-3km/h more or less if it's flat, if 30km/h or 32-33km/h. But it matters if I'm dead and need to ride home after 2 mountains or after 10-15 mountains...
So my wife could need maybe a 15km/h motor limit. To slow for her if it's flat, so she would be encouraged to cycle mostly on her own above the limit without motor. But still fast enough for any hill or incline to feel good and sure to have support when really needed.
I think our big range difference even with my weight is one half our 25km/h limit. So if it's flat I need maybe 0,5% per mile or less. But the other half of our range difference is because she (like so many others with ebikes) is used to let the motor do to much work. I feeled our 25km/h limit here always as terrible and longed for a 45km/h Creo in the beginning. But not anymore, the 25km/h limit with the SL drive is no real limit, no brusk "wall" like on other ebikes, but it forces me to work much more. And for my rides it doesn't matter if I cycle 2-3km/h more or less if it's flat, if 30km/h or 32-33km/h. But it matters if I'm dead and need to ride home after 2 mountains or after 10-15 mountains...
So my wife could need maybe a 15km/h motor limit. To slow for her if it's flat, so she would be encouraged to cycle mostly on her own above the limit without motor. But still fast enough for any hill or incline to feel good and sure to have support when really needed.
I very rarely use any assist while on the flat. In most cases I'm able to keep with the group at a comfortable 15mph. Once rolling I find very little difference between my Creo
Evo and my 19 lb. Santa Cruz Stigmata but once climbing thats a different story. Even when climbing I will ride without assist until I run out of gears then I'll put it in eco. I just did a training ride a couple of days ago with 4,000 ft of elevation gain in just under 14 miles. It was some of the steepest climbs I'ver done with a few grades at 20%. I did use sport mode a few times when the grades were over 10% but only intermittently. The best thing I did for the bike was adding the road remote buttons on my drops. It made all the difference in world on extending the battery range. With the push of a button it makes it as easy as changing gears. I think the best way to describe it is to say it's like having 3 more gears without the loss of speed.
Evo and my 19 lb. Santa Cruz Stigmata but once climbing thats a different story. Even when climbing I will ride without assist until I run out of gears then I'll put it in eco. I just did a training ride a couple of days ago with 4,000 ft of elevation gain in just under 14 miles. It was some of the steepest climbs I'ver done with a few grades at 20%. I did use sport mode a few times when the grades were over 10% but only intermittently. The best thing I did for the bike was adding the road remote buttons on my drops. It made all the difference in world on extending the battery range. With the push of a button it makes it as easy as changing gears. I think the best way to describe it is to say it's like having 3 more gears without the loss of speed.
kahn
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- northWET washington
Mine sharing a picture of where you located the remotes? I've been considering them. Did you install or have a shop do it?
The shop I bought the bike from did the install.
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kahn
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Thanks. I've been thinking about having it installed and trying to figure out where I'd place them. Lately, I'm not on the drops as much as in the past.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
A good name!
(Reading this thread with a great interest).
kahn
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- northWET washington
I guess there is one potential outstanding question. Since Mission Control allows each of us to tune the values for Eco/Sport(Trail)/Turbo, what values do you have them set at? And unfortunately, I've got about 80 pounds on you which really decimates the battery power. Gosh, to get 65 miles.....
You realized that it was 65 miles with 50% battery? ;-)
I'm at a similar weight as YOU and get about similar distances as AMOTO65. My power settings are 25/50/100, while mostly with level 1/25% and on longer uphills level 2/50% and almost never level 3/100%.
But I think much more than the power settings the reason for our big ranges is the 25km/h limit. Even on hilly tours where I really need the motor, I cycle on average 1/3 on my own without motor, so over the limit. That's very different on a U.S. Creo I think.
I'm at a similar weight as YOU and get about similar distances as AMOTO65. My power settings are 25/50/100, while mostly with level 1/25% and on longer uphills level 2/50% and almost never level 3/100%.
But I think much more than the power settings the reason for our big ranges is the 25km/h limit. Even on hilly tours where I really need the motor, I cycle on average 1/3 on my own without motor, so over the limit. That's very different on a U.S. Creo I think.
kahn
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- USA
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- northWET washington
Yes, I realized he had half of his battery remaining. I compare that to my 53 mile ride with almost 3,000 feet and had about 6-7% left on BOTH the regular battery AND THE Range Extender. Maybe the way the hills are situated affects the results. That is rather than a number of long uphill grades, there are a lot of shorter steeper pitches and some longer hills. And I don't recall my settings. I have no idea if the US UNrestricted model uses more power but I don't know how that affects climbing where the speed is not that great anyway.
But I need to give up potato chips and cheese (Kartoffelchips und Käse)!
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Settings at Eco 35% not sure of rest as I never use them.
Don't do it, Chips and Käse are so delicious!!!
But I think our "secret" is much more simple, let's just compare our average speeds. My ones are about 12-13 mph on my really long rides. I do mostly gravel, so 50-70% mild offroad, which slows down a lot. Maybe Amoto65 is riding only road? Anyway I guess you will find you average speed significantly higher than ours and there you have the higher battery consumption due to a motor with 45 instead of 25km/h limit.
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