Need opinions from Creo and Vado SL riders

[Stefan Mikes]

there is no TCD or TCD mount with any creo. TCU only (in the top tube) on the lower tier bikes, road blip remote buttons also for the higher tier ones.

road bike drop bars deserve to be clean and uncluttered !!!

Thank you! (So I will bring my Wahoo mount that you attach to the bars with tie zips for the demo ride).

 

[kahn]

there is no TCD or TCD mount with any creo. TCU only (in the top tube) on the lower tier bikes, road blip remote buttons also for the higher tier ones.

road bike drop bars deserve to be clean and uncluttered !!!

I could post a picture of mine but you'd lose your breakfast!

I added the TCD and when you purchase it, it comes with a mount - matches Garmin mounts. I then did add the Creo remotes very recently. They are pretty discreet and would not make @mschwett ill!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I could post a picture of mine but you'd lose your breakfast!

I added the TCD and when you purchase it, it comes with a mount - matches Garmin mounts. I then did add the Creo remotes very recently. They are pretty discreet and would not make @mschwett ill!

If -- I repeat -- if I bought a Creo, I would install a Wahoo mount in the first place. My gravel cycling mates all do it. It is them who made me believe Wahoo was a good thing to own

 

[kahn]

If -- I repeat -- if I bought a Creo, I would install a Wahoo mount in the first place. My gravel cycling mates all do it. It is them who made me believe Wahoo was a good thing to own

Who are you trying to convince? Us, the readers, or the author?

And don't you need a larger apartment?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm trying to convince mschwett that a GPS bike computer is kosher on both road and gravel bikes

 

[mschwett]

I'm trying to convince mschwett that a GPS bike computer is kosher on both road and gravel bikes

totally kosher, as long as it’s on an “out front” mount, and the only device attached to the handlebars other than the brake/shifter levers

 

[Rider51]

Not sure where to post this, but an internal dealer notice from Specialized indicates cost to dealers for most Carbon Comp Creo SL's (as well as some E5, and Levo's) are set for a limited price drop. This doesn't mean you're going to see a big sale coming up, but it may mean they are catching up in production after a really long 20 months or so and trying to move some 2021 versions.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Not sure where to post this, but an internal dealer notice from Specialized indicates cost to dealers for most Carbon Comp Creo SL's (as well as some E5, and Levo's) are set for a limited price drop. This doesn't mean you're going to see a big sale coming up, but it may mean they are catching up in production after a really long 20 months or so and trying to move some 2021 versions.

The 2021 version is the last that could be easily derestricted...

 

[jodi2]

And this is important for Rider51 in the US or the reason for any price drop?
Even in Europe the interest for derestricting an SL drive is low/much lower than for the usual standard motors, which are horrible to ride above 25km/h.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Even in Europe the interest for derestricting an SL drive is low/much lower than for the usual standard motors, which are horrible to ride above 25km/h.

One of the reasons I'm not buying a Creo is the fact I cannot ride it faster than 25 km/h. It was ridiculous on my Creo demo ride to be overtaken by all roadies. Bear in mind: My legs are bad (ill).

Another matter: You said I would not need to own an aluminium Creo if I owned a Vado SL. You were correct! I had a gravel group ride with my modified Vado SL today. My Vado SL turned out to be an excellent gravel e-bike despite of the flat bars. But it is a derestricted e-bike: Sometimes we were zooming at 40 km/h on asphalt roads! (and my buddies are middle aged traditional cyclists).

 

[Rider51]

And this is important for Rider51 in the US or the reason for any price drop?
Even in Europe the interest for derestricting an SL drive is low/much lower than for the usual standard motors, which are horrible to ride above 25km/h.

The price drop is internal only, and not a big drop. That means Specialized as a company has a higher stock than normal of 2021 Creo SL's (and a some Levo's). Picture this: it's August of 2021 and your LBS bike store has 1 Creo on the floor, and they think there are two coming in the next month. Fast forward to the end of this year: There will possibly be 5 Creos on the floor, a couple more in their storage in boxes, a handful more at a regional distribution center able to order within a week or so if you're looking for a different size or color.

I made my post as a hint, a hope, that maybe around next spring bike shop supplies may be closer to how life was before the pandemic. That is: You want a bike, you go into your LBS, and if they don't have it, they can probably get it for you. Remember those days?

2022 Creos are not out yet, what versions you see that say "2022" are modified 2021 versions. I have inside scoops, and even I don't know exactly what's going to happen with the 2022 Creo (or Vado SL,or Levo), but it's best if we stop thinking about year models, and just a continuum of incremental change for now. It's safe to say it should have the mastermind PCU on the frame, plus the new TCD. I doubt frame changes will be much, they will still likely put whatever components on it they can get. Everyone is waiting for motor updates/upgrades. Parts inside the battery may likely change some, as they are constantly refining it (early batteries had more common stuff in them, for example).

 

[jodi2]

Overall the availability of Specialized was still good or ok in these two years of Corona (at least here in Germany). Other brands are much worse. When I was looking for a MTB in September, many dealers told me for several brands "Come back in 2023...".

Stefan, I know about your reasons for deristriction. I just wanted to say, that this hint wasn't necessary in this thread/less then in others, where someone perhaps asks about deristriction.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Overall the availability of Specialized was still good or ok in these two years of Corona (at least here in Germany).

Same for Poland. Yes you could not easily pick your favourite frame colour and sometimes it was hard to get a Spec e-bike in some specific size but the availability was pretty good as for the pandemic times.

 

[mschwett]

The price drop is internal only, and not a big drop. That means Specialized as a company has a higher stock than normal of 2021 Creo SL's (and a some Levo's). Picture this: it's August of 2021 and your LBS bike store has 1 Creo on the floor, and they think there are two coming in the next month. Fast forward to the end of this year: There will possibly be 5 Creos on the floor, a couple more in their storage in boxes, a handful more at a regional distribution center able to order within a week or so if you're looking for a different size or color.

of all the major specialized bikes, the creo has been about the easiest to find. clearly they overestimated the demand a little bit relative to some other bikes! also evidenced by the big sale on the larger frame size versions, from comp to s-works (!) a while back…

 

[Rider51]

of all the major specialized bikes, the creo has been about the easiest to find. clearly they overestimated the demand a little bit relative to some other bikes! also evidenced by the big sale on the larger frame size versions, from comp to s-works (!) a while back…

True. This is why I tell people riding a Creo is like another sport. Or like driving a Ferrari. You can get going real fast, very quickly. Most people just don't need that speed. It's a joyride for sure, but do you really need to own such a machine? I think Stefan has noted that the Vado (non SL), because of it's torque and "4x you" can generate similar speed to a Creo and it's "2x you", and that's true. But the Vado doesn't invite you to just fly the way a Creo does. The Vado helps you have a great ride. The typical rider I see on a Creo isn't someone who's a 30, 40 year old professional who wants a speed machine. It's someone over 50 who used to ride fast, doesn't have the same power output, but still wants a bike with drop bars. It also seems pointless to me to have a restricted Creo. If your Creo isn't able to go up to 28mph (45kph) why would you even own it?

Regarding the need for speed and power, the Vado SL wasn't one of the original bikes Specialized had on the drawing board. But they found that owners of the Vado - people who wanted a more upright, fitness/commuter type bike - were spending most of their time in Eco mode. Most people just don't need that much power, hence the Vado SL was born, with the same motor as the Creo, in a much more easy riding package.

This is also part of the reason I fully expect to see a Vado EVO in the next couple of years. A Turbo Diverge Evo if you will. Sefan already turned his Vado SL into a gravel bike, and with the onslaught of people riding gravel, but not needing a "race" gravel bike like the Creo EVO, this makes total sense. LBS people expected to see it this year when the Tera showed up, but it wasn't the case.

Having said all that, the Creo is maybe the most impressive bike I've ever ridden.

 

[Rider51]

I agree that 2022 won't be the year of "normal" bike buying and repair, like pre-Covid. Some brands prepared better, and are catching up. Specialized is one of them. Others did not, and still aren't close. There's also still a shortage of some components. It could be simple things, like spokes or 11 speed chains, or more esoteric ones like Di2 shifting. It's also odd seeing "junk" companies like Microshift able to flood the market. A Chinese knock-off of Shimano Tourney or Clairus, SRAM Apex level components now appearing to fill that void, something I expect to last for months.

Even in 2023 I don't think everything will be like a time warp back to 2019. Some companies have adapted well, are planning well, and simply better run than others, and Covid may in some ways just be exploiting that, with some thriving in new ways in 2023 and beyond, with others struggling, even disappearing.

 

[kahn]

@Rider51

"It's someone over 50 who used to ride fast, doesn't have the same power output, but still wants a bike with drop bars. It also seems pointless to me to have a restricted Creo. If your Creo isn't able to go up to 28mph (45kph) why would you even own it?"

That is an odd limitation for a road bike, since roadies can do that speed without motor assist. But I guess it simplifies standards to apply it across the board.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

True. This is why I tell people riding a Creo is like another sport. Or like driving a Ferrari. You can get going real fast, very quickly. Most people just don't need that speed. It's a joyride for sure, but do you really need to own such a machine? I think Stefan has noted that the Vado (non SL), because of it's torque and "4x you" can generate similar speed to a Creo and it's "2x you", and that's true. But the Vado doesn't invite you to just fly the way a Creo does. The Vado helps you have a great ride. The typical rider I see on a Creo isn't someone who's a 30, 40 year old professional who wants a speed machine. It's someone over 50 who used to ride fast, doesn't have the same power output, but still wants a bike with drop bars. It also seems pointless to me to have a restricted Creo. If your Creo isn't able to go up to 28mph (45kph) why would you even own it?

Regarding the need for speed and power, the Vado SL wasn't one of the original bikes Specialized had on the drawing board. But they found that owners of the Vado - people who wanted a more upright, fitness/commuter type bike - were spending most of their time in Eco mode. Most people just don't need that much power, hence the Vado SL was born, with the same motor as the Creo, in a much more easy riding package.

This is also part of the reason I fully expect to see a Vado EVO in the next couple of years. A Turbo Diverge Evo if you will. Sefan already turned his Vado SL into a gravel bike, and with the onslaught of people riding gravel, but not needing a "race" gravel bike like the Creo EVO, this makes total sense. LBS people expected to see it this year when the Tera showed up, but it wasn't the case.

Having said all that, the Creo is maybe the most impressive bike I've ever ridden.

Because I live in an extremely hilly area, with small narrow lanes and surfaces which although tarmacked are more akin to gravel roads because of the muddy/gravelly/potholed appearance, and it rains here a hell of a lot! (Dartmoor SW England) I set about converting my Vado SL to be able to deal with these local conditions. And importantly - to make riding on these lanes, fun!
So over the first few months I got the bike last winter I changed the front chainwheel to a 38T (Raceface). This had a dramatic effect on the steep 20% hills- the SL motor loves my faster cadence and bike has become a real mountain goat.

I then swapped the pathfinder tyres for WTB Nanos 40c - although not any wider really, they are taller with more air and more supple sidewalls giving a lovely springy ride with good grip but not any more rolling resistance that I can tell - they feel light and very fast and great on technical descents.

I also swapped the straight handlebars for something with a bigger back sweep. This was more personal preference as I like a more upright position for long rides. Plus I have more choice in hand positions with the bends. I also added some 'homemade' inner bar ends- basically the top half & hoods with the brake levers levered off, from some old shimano 600 road brake levers & they do the same job as riding on the hoods.

I got SKS Speedrocker mudguards - these are especially designed for gravel bikes. At first I was suspicious of them as they are simply attached with velcro and rubber bands and seemed too fragile for the harsh riding conditions here, plus are only 3/4 length. But that elasticity is their genius - unlike traditional bolted on mudguards these can move when hit by obstacles flung up by the tyres; sticks, rocks etc. They bounce them off without clogging. And if they do clog you don't need any tools to move them to get at the mud or leaves etc that have caused a problem. They also sit further from the tyres so are automatically better for stones mud not getting caught. So far they have lasted over a year and still going strong.

The bike now feels perfect for the riding conditions here. And Rider 51 I agree with you that Speccy might well come out with an EVO version of the Vado - and if it's an SL I'll be VERY interested to see what they do to make it more off road capable!

Meanwhile I've got my eye on a new bike from UK ebike company Cairn. It's their new BRAVe which has been delayed by the usual slowdown issues so now not available until June I think. Cairn are a small company but are the same people who make Hunt wheels and Privateer MTBs. Their first e bike was the gravel drop bar e Adventure & Fazua equipped. Won a ton of awards. But I like the look of the Brave because of the no nonsense robust looking build. It's also only £2100 which is brilliant. Hope it gets some good reviews. Then i'll be that well known problem, that disease that afflicts so many of us on here; is this an addition to my stable?

Cairn BRAVe 2.0 Flat Bar

It's Time to Feel BRAVe Gravel Bike, rigid mountain bike, monster cross, touring bike, back country or gravduro. Whatever you want to call it ...be BRAVe! A 21st century take on the touring bike, the BRAVe takes all the great features of gravel and mountain bikes and combines them into one...

www.cairncycles.com

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Rás Cnoic: Thank you for your insights on your Vado SL usage and mods.
Could you post some pictures of your modified e-bike?
Regarding the Cairn: I would personally not like the battery hump Otherwise, the e-bike looks nicely. Any information on the Fazua system connectivity?

@Rider51: It looks there is some European campaign to improve the speed restriction security even more (Mastermind TCU/TCD is the example of the trend). I'm glad I have found the Creo unsuitable for my needs! Otherwise I would need to buy a MY2021 in hurry to get the Gen 1 TCU (that is easier derestrictable)!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

@Rás Cnoic: Thank you for your insights on your Vado SL usage and mods.
Could you post some pictures of your modified e-bike?
Regarding the Cairn: I would personally not like the battery hump Otherwise, the e-bike looks nicely. Any information on the Fazua system connectivity?

@Rider51: It looks there is some European campaign to improve the speed restriction security even more (Mastermind TCU/TCD is the example of the trend). I'm glad I have found the Creo unsuitable for my needs! Otherwise I would need to buy a MY2021 in hurry to get the Gen 1 TCU (that is easier derestrictable)!

The battery doesn't bother me on this one. I know what you mean - its nice to have it concealed like the SL. But I think it fits the 'Land Rover' looks of the Brave. It's a Shimano 630wh battery so hefty in more ways then one! That's what I mean about it being a kind of no nonsense, go anywhere bike, for long expeditions on the muddy lanes and moorland tracks here, with fat ugly welds and fat tyres for suspension - rather then them just having a cheap & heavy coil front sus at this price like so many companies do. It's well thought out. They are talking about a system of racks front and rear and bags so it could become my shopping bike as well! Maybe that might justify it to the powers that be : )

Regarding the Fazua- I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean for bike computers? I don't have any. What I like about that system is it's equally as light as the SL motor (though smaller battery) and seems to get good reviews. And as a bonus you can remove motor and battery easily and ride the bike unassisted & light. As I ride 50% of the time on my normal bikes the idea of having both in one is attractive. Plus the e Adventure comes with either 650b wheels or 700c so you can pick how off road (bigger tyres) you want to go.

When I bought the Vado SL last October, it was the drop bars (and lack of availability then) of the Cairn e Adventure bikes that put me off. But as I say it has since won a load of awards and the new Brave looks more suited & interesting fit for cycling around here.