Need opinions from Creo and Vado SL riders

[Stefan Mikes]

Stefan you get what you pay for. The Stromer is not to heavy or not too thirsty for it's purpose. Neither are the normal Vado or Vado SL/Creo bad or slow ebikes.
My ride to work would be about 10% faster with the Stromer than with the normal vado (as this was also the difference to my S-Bosch). But of course it empties the battery like a glass of cold beer. Big motor support and higher speed need overproportional energy/battery.
I also can ride 100km with the Stromer at low motor support, but it feels terrible (for me, others ride more often like this), like a Porsche in the rush hour. Creo or Vado SL are fanatistic here, but of course much slower then a Stromer (or normal Vado) with full support. The normal Vado (or Bosch or similiar) is somewhere between, a good compromise. Perfect if you can afford or want only one ebike for everything.
Like always, there's no free lunch... ;-)

Well Jodi, I'm not in any quarrel with you. I just say my Speed Vado is the most universal of my e-bikes. If I just want to drink coffee with a friend in Warsaw, that would be the Vado, and riding with traffic
If I'm going for grocery shopping that would be the Vado SL, as I can carry it downstairs/upstairs with a single hand.

 

[jodi2]

I'm not in any quarrel with you.

Neither me... But you started it. Or I just overinterpreted it as "See how much further my Vado gets than your Stromer?"... ;-)
There are even longer rides possible without any motor and without limits. ;-)

I just say my Speed Vado is the most universal of my e-bikes.

Have you seen that I wrote exactly this in my previous post?
Btw if you ask me today, what ebike I would buy today, if I did not had two, I would be unsure. I wouldn't buy a Stromer again as my need for it's speed is less today. Distance to work has almost doubled two years ago. So to far to ride it twice a day and each day, maybe once a week and only in summer. But a (new) Stromer is much too expensive (or my salary too bad) just for irregular use and I would still need a car a monthly train ticket.
A Creo would be a little bit too sportive for my only bike. I guess I would choose something like the Vado SL (if XL would fit me well, I doubt it), so some help uphill if wanted, but still riding fine without motor or over 25km/h.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Or I just overinterpreted it

This.
What I meant was SL e-bikes were great for recreation or daily chores like small grocery shopping but were not universal e-bikes. Honestly, it is hard to imagine that anyone commutes on an SL e-bike and arrives to work fresh As I am not fond of hub-drive e-bikes, I must admit these are the best commuters (unless there are hills around; a Direct Drive e-bike like your Stromer overcomes that limitation).

 

[Rider51]

Yes, if you're looking to commute, and not sweat much at all, the Vado SL may not be for you. Or you'll be riding along less than 20kph in turbo mode all the time (slower of course on any hills). Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just that the bike isn't truly designed for that kind of riding.

I think of the Vado SL as a fitness hybrid e-bike, that can double as a commuter with light loads, or for light errands, or even be modified as a flat-bar gravel bike with the right tires, and preferably a shock stem (if you don't own the 5.0 with Future Shock). Put another way, it's just a superb way to get around town, over nearly all roads, including some dirt roads and paths, cover a lot of distance, and still get a decent workout without exhausting yourself.

If you're looking to replace your car for 90% of all trips outside the house, commuting with a full load, etc. that's what the full Vado is for (the Stromer is indeed another good example).

Edit - I also wanted to say that while I'm in the US and my Vado SL is derestricted, I too rarely find myself using power over about 20mph. The sweet spot seems to be between 15-20mph on most flats and typical rolling terrain. It will motor along just fine at that speed without me having to work super hard.

 

[jodi2]

Btw if you ask me today, what ebike I would buy today, if I did not had two, I would be unsure. I wouldn't buy a Stromer again as my need for it's speed is less today. Distance to work has almost doubled two years ago. So to far to ride it twice a day and each day, maybe once a week and only in summer. But a (new) Stromer is much too expensive (or my salary too bad) just for irregular use and I would still need a car a monthly train ticket.
A Creo would be a little bit too sportive for my only bike. I guess I would choose something like the Vado SL (if XL would fit me well, I doubt it), so some help uphill if wanted, but still riding fine without motor or over 25km/h.

I have to add, all this refers to our european 25km/h limit with ridiculous obstacles for 45km/h ebikes. As a good assist drive like SL or Fazua is still fine to ride over 25km/h, it's sometimes an acceptable alternative here for a 45km/h (just slower, but lighter and more agile). Other 25km/h ebike are terrible for anyone who passes the 25km/h limit frequently.
If the normal/heavier ebike has a 45km/h limit and like in the US or Switzerland without the stuipid EU rules, there would be more choice here for me an others and maybe I would end with an ebike like this instead of SL.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Well Jodi. I paid for Third Party Liability insurance for my S-Vado just a couple days ago. Today, I had to carry my Vado (without the battery and downstairs) for some 10 metres. "How heavy e-bike it is..." I said under my breath. Put the battery in, switch the motor on and the Vado becomes a speed demon! Still, I value my Vado SL very much. It is sensitive to headwind. It is slow unless in high assistance modes (and derestricted). Yet, it is so lightweight I ride it daily, and the big Vado is for longer, demanding trips.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Not quite an e-bike question...

I could see this exhilarating video from GCN, and was shocked how specialized bikes have become:

• Racing road bike
• All-road bike
• Gravel bike...

Of course, the drift of that video (and other recent GCN productions as well) is the gravel bike was the ultimate bike, hahaha Still, the Creo comes in road and gravel flavours. Is any of them an all-road e-bike? What do you think?

 

[kahn]

Not quite an e-bike question...

I could see this exhilarating video from GCN, and was shocked how specialized bikes have become:

• Racing road bike
• All-road bike
• Gravel bike...

Of course, the drift of that video (and other recent GCN productions as well) is the gravel bike was the ultimate bike, hahaha Still, the Creo comes in road and gravel flavours. Is any of them an all-road e-bike? What do you think?

So whether a bike is ROAD or GRAVEL does not depend on the geometry, at least, for Specialized Creo model? They are all the same geometry but how they are outfitted makes the difference? Different equipment, wheels, tires, seat post, etc.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So whether a bike is ROAD or GRAVEL does not depend on the geometry, at least, for Specialized Creo model? They are all the same geometry but how they are outfitted makes the difference? Different equipment, wheels, tires, seat post, etc.

That's why I want to understand it better. You could say that just putting somehat wider tyres would make your racing road bike an all-road one. Replace the gear/bars and you're getting a gravel bike?

I can only guess Specialized go that way, using exactly the same Creo frameset. But hey! Specialized Tarmac, Crux, Roubaix, and Diverge: All these bikes are quite different!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It's getting weird...

• Tarmac: a performance road bike
• Roubaix: an endurance road bike
• CruX: an all-road bike
• Diverge: a gravel bike

All them are different!

 

[mschwett]

there are subtle differences and similarities all around! the new crux borrows heavily from the aethos, the diverge and the creo share many geometry points and the future shock, which the roubaix also has to deal with the cobbles …

 

[waghmare]

I don't own a Vado SL or Creo, but I have a light drop-bar road bike and an e-gravel bike with a flat handle bar.
My e-gravel bike came with a drop bar, but because of finger numbness I switched to a flat bar setup.
I like my drop bar bike, but I like riding my flat bar setup more. Sometimes, on longer rides, I get neck pain on my road bike, but I've never had any neck pain while riding my flat bar bike.
The flat bar that I purchased has horns, which allows me to get more aero when I want to. I end up in about the same position as when I have my hands on the hoods of my road bike.

Here's a photo of my handlebar:

May I know make/model of that horns setup? A link would be great.

 

[Downhiller]

Because I live in an extremely hilly area, with small narrow lanes and surfaces which although tarmacked are more akin to gravel roads because of the muddy/gravelly/potholed appearance, and it rains here a hell of a lot! (Dartmoor SW England) I set about converting my Vado SL to be able to deal with these local conditions. And importantly - to make riding on these lanes, fun!
So over the first few months I got the bike last winter I changed the front chainwheel to a 38T (Raceface). This had a dramatic effect on the steep 20% hills- the SL motor loves my faster cadence and bike has become a real mountain goat.

I then swapped the pathfinder tyres for WTB Nanos 40c - although not any wider really, they are taller with more air and more supple sidewalls giving a lovely springy ride with good grip but not any more rolling resistance that I can tell - they feel light and very fast and great on technical descents.

I also swapped the straight handlebars for something with a bigger back sweep. This was more personal preference as I like a more upright position for long rides. Plus I have more choice in hand positions with the bends. I also added some 'homemade' inner bar ends- basically the top half & hoods with the brake levers levered off, from some old shimano 600 road brake levers & they do the same job as riding on the hoods.

I got SKS Speedrocker mudguards - these are especially designed for gravel bikes. At first I was suspicious of them as they are simply attached with velcro and rubber bands and seemed too fragile for the harsh riding conditions here, plus are only 3/4 length. But that elasticity is their genius - unlike traditional bolted on mudguards these can move when hit by obstacles flung up by the tyres; sticks, rocks etc. They bounce them off without clogging. And if they do clog you don't need any tools to move them to get at the mud or leaves etc that have caused a problem. They also sit further from the tyres so are automatically better for stones mud not getting caught. So far they have lasted over a year and still going strong.

The bike now feels perfect for the riding conditions here. And Rider 51 I agree with you that Speccy might well come out with an EVO version of the Vado - and if it's an SL I'll be VERY interested to see what they do to make it more off road capable!

Meanwhile I've got my eye on a new bike from UK ebike company Cairn. It's their new BRAVe which has been delayed by the usual slowdown issues so now not available until June I think. Cairn are a small company but are the same people who make Hunt wheels and Privateer MTBs. Their first e bike was the gravel drop bar e Adventure & Fazua equipped. Won a ton of awards. But I like the look of the Brave because of the no nonsense robust looking build. It's also only £2100 which is brilliant. Hope it gets some good reviews. Then i'll be that well known problem, that disease that afflicts so many of us on here; is this an addition to my stable?

View attachment 107675

Cairn BRAVe 2.0 Flat Bar

It's Time to Feel BRAVe Gravel Bike, rigid mountain bike, monster cross, touring bike, back country or gravduro. Whatever you want to call it ...be BRAVe! A 21st century take on the touring bike, the BRAVe takes all the great features of gravel and mountain bikes and combines them into one...

www.cairncycles.com

I love the look of that bike. Cairn has now some e Adventure Rambler in XS and I have preordered. Pretty stoked.