At What Price .......?

[CSH]

Tapping into the collective Wisdom of the Forum

At what price point do you all feel one should expect to pay for good quality, reliability, and money well spent.


Bike style:
Upright / Upright Relaxed

Riding environment:
Neighborhood, Paved Bike Paths, Small Uptown (City)

I can think of no better place to ask this question.
Thanks,
I look forward to your opinions & experience.

Craig

 

[indianajo]

I like the yubabikes bodaboda bike left because it hasn't thrown me on my chin in 3500 miles. Stretch frame puts mt weight on the front wheel, unlike MTB & cruisers I was riding previously that did throw me on my chin 4 times. Disk brakes & 24 speed SRAM shifters, $2000 unpowered with panniers and double leg kick stand (free freight). Frame is for small people. Cargo up to 80 lb so far, I shop off the bike. They have a bigger low bar frame for longer leg people
Electric conversion with 17 AH 48 v battery was $840, but I'm upgrading with a $500 MAC front motor that might last longer. Ebikeling motor has started making whirr noises uphill after 350 miles. Really like geared hub motor, allows me to pedal as long as I can stand it (3 hours) and hurry home if the wind is dragged me down too badly. No more 5.7 hour rides at 94 degrees, pulse >120all the way. Don't like the idea of dragging a mid-motor along with my pedal power unpowered (yamaha has a slip clutch). BTW pedaling 70 miles a week has left my heart with "nothing wrong with it" after $5500 of presurgery heart tests. I'm age 69.
Similar stretch frames for longer legged people from Xtracycle, Pedego (stretch), Surly (big dummy) Rad (radwagon). Warning I think the radwagon has cheap 7 speed shimano axle that came unscrewed & dropped the balls on me on the MTB. Stupid design, no lock nut against the race. 8 speed shimano cluster & axle on the bodaboda has been fine 3500 miles so far.
Top speed ~18 mph, range about 45 miles if lots of steep hills are involved. We have a lot of 12-15% rollers out near my summer camp. Decrease range 50% at 45 deg F. 2.1" tires are comfortable without a suspension. Knobby kenda tires keeps me from getting flats as long as knobs are thicker than 3/32". Motor will start 330 lb gross on a 15% grade (I've done it with 60 lb cargo & 170 lb me). In low low sprocket I can pedal same up that hill without power.
Negative, the seat post and handlebar are oversized, there is no changing them.

 

[Figs]

$2000

Buy from a local bike store if at all possible. My Magnum Ui6 was $1700 out the door, a year and 3,600 miles later I’m still loving it and no issues.

I ride very upright, ride on light traveled roads/streets and rarely a short distance on large shoulder of highway. For my safety I stay off multi use paths.

 

[Katysax]

It’s funny you asked this because my sister and her husband are looking at Ebikes and they mostly want to ride bike paths.

$1000 if you do your homework and budget a little for local bike shop maintenance. The $999 Aventon Pace 350 would fit what you are looking for. At that price you can get a good bike or something that is junk. Generally $1500 is a little safer. Most LBS bikes will start around $2000. Where you live makes a difference. I live in L A and there are lots of places to get bikes from a shop.

At $2000 you are getting into the price range of a mid drive motor. There are both advantages and disadvantages to a mid drive motor. If you aren’t riding steep hills or planning trips longer than 20 miles a hub drive will likely be more than fine. A hub will require less maintenance and is cheaper. I have owned both hub and mid drive bikes and I feel that the average person who uses their bike for bike paths and around the neighborhood would be plenty happy with a hub drive. Basically a good hub motor plus battery and parts costs about $1000. A decent entry level new bike with disc brakes costs about $400. Thus approximately $1200 is the base price for a decent ebike. Some bikes are purpose built and they can get the price down to $1000. Less than that either the motor or the bike will not be good enough. You can save a little by buying a used bike and installing a kit but you are still are still around $1000.

Where my sister lives the choice of Ebikes from the shops is limited. There is a Pedego shop. I have mixed feelings about Pedego. The bikes have hub drives and seem solid but overpriced. On the other hand the service seems to be excellent. For me the service seems of minimal value because I do a lot of my own maintenance. I give enough business to the local LBS from all of my bikes that they don’t mind helping with my Ebikes and I don’t mind paying for the things I can’t do or don’t want to so myself. My sister might be better off with a Pedego but maybe not.

If you just want a decent bike you can get away with $1000. If you want a bike with good service you probably need to go to $2000.

 

[CSH]

$2000

Buy from a local bike store if at all possible. My Magnum Ui6 was $1700 out the door, a year and 3,600 miles later I’m still loving it and no issues.

I ride very upright, ride on light traveled roads/streets and rarely a short distance on large shoulder of highway. For my safety I stay off multi use paths.

Thanks Figs,
Magnums are on my short list.
Great to know of your experience of reliability.
Thank You,
Craig

 

[MarkF]

I really like my Raleigh retroglide beach cruiser. 600 miles and only needed air in the tires and chain lube. It's great looking upright ride and we liked it so much my wife bought one.

 

[CSH]

It’s funny you asked this because my sister and her husband are looking at Ebikes and they mostly want to ride bike paths.

$1000 if you do your homework and budget a little for local bike shop maintenance. The $999 Aventon Pace 350 would fit what you are looking for. At that price you can get a good bike or something that is junk. Generally $1500 is a little safer. Most LBS bikes will start around $2000. Where you live makes a difference. I live in L A and there are lots of places to get bikes from a shop.

At $2000 you are getting into the price range of a mid drive motor. There are both advantages and disadvantages to a mid drive motor. If you aren’t riding steep hills or planning trips longer than 20 miles a hub drive will likely be more than fine. A hub will require less maintenance and is cheaper. I have owned both hub and mid drive bikes and I feel that the average person who uses their bike for bike paths and around the neighborhood would be plenty happy with a hub drive. Basically a good hub motor plus battery and parts costs about $1000. A decent entry level new bike with disc brakes costs about $400. Thus approximately $1200 is the base price for a decent ebike. Some bikes are purpose built and they can get the price down to $1000. Less than that either the motor or the bike will not be good enough. You can save a little by buying a used bike and installing a kit but you are still are still around $1000.

Where my sister lives the choice of Ebikes from the shops is limited. There is a Pedego shop. I have mixed feelings about Pedego. The bikes have hub drives and seem solid but overpriced. On the other hand the service seems to be excellent. For me the service seems of minimal value because I do a lot of my own maintenance. I give enough business to the local LBS from all of my bikes that they don’t mind helping with my Ebikes and I don’t mind paying for the things I can’t do or don’t want to so myself. My sister might be better off with a Pedego but maybe not.

If you just want a decent bike you can get away with $1000. If you want a bike with good service you probably need to go to $2000.

Unless, or until something I haven't seen on EBR pops up, this is my list of contenders:
Prices range from $1400 to $3400 { Retail }.
The Evelo is the $3400 bike (of which Im not egear to spend that much) however Evelo gets a lot of positive feedback.

Any comments on this list are (VERY welcomed)

Ariel C-Class
Evelo Aurora
Surface Rook
Giant LaFree 1
Magnum Metro
Townie GO 8i
Emotion Atom Wave Pro
Izip Moda E3
Raleigh Detour iE
Raleigh Venture 2.0 iE
Aventon Pace 500
Trek Verve +
Raleigh Retroglide Royl 2.0 iE
Specialized Turbo Como 3

Craig

 

[Katysax]

Does OP need to go 28 mph? The Turbo Como 1 or 2 is cheaper and only does 20 mph, but so what. I generally ride at about 16 mph and don’t need to go much faster. The Aventon Pace 350 is less than the 500 and the big difference is that it is a 20 mph bike.

I would not recommend a townie. This is probably not fair but I had a non electric townie for a while and it was a heavy, rattle-y piece of junk.

 

[rich c]

$3000-$4000 That gives you torque sensor mid drive, hydraulic brakes, quality drivetrain components, puncture resistant tires, and big battery.

 

[CSH]

Does OP need to go 28 mph? The Turbo Como 1 or 2 is cheaper and only does 20 mph, but so what. I generally ride at about 16 mph and don’t need to go much faster. The Aventon Pace 350 is less than the 500 and the big difference is that it is a 20 mph bike.

I would not recommend a townie. This is probably not fair but I had a non electric townie for a while and it was a heavy, rattle-y piece of junk.

I don't NEED 28mph.

And I'm with you, I have ruled out the Townie.

The Aventon 500 does have Hydraulic Breaks, and I'm lead by so many to think that is highly recommend.

Craig

 

[Katysax]

Hydraulic brakes are nice to have. Disc brakes at a minimum but hydraulic are nicer.

 

[CSH]

$3000-$4000 That gives you torque sensor mid drive, hydraulic brakes, quality drivetrain components, puncture resistant tires, and big battery.

That's what I'm afraid of............
But if I have to, damn it.............. I might.

There was that non committal enough

Thank You Rich,
Craig

 

[Katysax]

I strongly disagree. You don’t need to spend $3-4000. $2000 will give you a large universe of very good bikes to choose from. Torque sensor and hydraulic brakes are nice but not essential. Mid drive has pros and cons. Big battery has pros and cons. How far are you riding? Do you need to transport the bike? How hilly will your riding be? How fast will you be going? What matters is your intended use, not a specific set of features. To say you need to spend $3-4000 to get a good bike does a disservice to people whose needs would be well met for a lot less money.

My sister will never ride faster than 15 mph. She will never ride further than 10 miles in a day. She will never climb a hill steeper than a freeway overpass. She lives next to a very nice bike path and might ride it regularly. She lives in a city with nice parks and she’ll want to carry her bike in or on her car. If she owns a bike ten years she might put a thousand miles on it. She and her husband can afford any bike. But why in the world would they need mid drive?Why would they need a big battery? I’m just using her as an example of how I think many, maybe most, people use their bikes.

 

[rich c]

I strongly disagree. You don’t need to spend $3-4000. $2000 will give you a large universe of very good bikes to choose from. Torque sensor and hydraulic brakes are nice but not essential. Mid drive has pros and cons. Big battery has pros and cons. How far are you riding? Do you need to transport the bike? How hilly will your riding be? How fast will you be going? What matters is your intended use, not a specific set of features. To say you need to spend $3-4000 to get a good bike does a disservice to people whose needs would be well met for a lot less money.

My sister will never ride faster than 15 mph. She will never ride further than 10 miles in a day. She will never climb a hill steeper than a freeway overpass. She lives next to a very nice bike path and might ride it regularly. She lives in a city with nice parks and she’ll want to carry her bike in or on her car. If she owns a bike ten years she might put a thousand miles on it. She and her husband can afford any bike. But why in the world would they need mid drive?Why would they need a big battery? I’m just using her as an example of how I think many, maybe most, people use their bikes.

You don’t have to agree with me. Did you consider I might ride differently than you? How about the fact that I prefer the smooth traditional bike feel of a mid drive? The discussion was about what we expected to pay for quality and reliability, not what was essential. I’m providing a disservice to others because I prefer a different style ride than you and your sister? A rather narrow view you have there. Using a cross section of 2 to describe most riders and riding styles of the entire country is again quite a narrow view and hardly accurate.

 

[AHicks]

I want (demand) reliability and a lack of proprietary parts. Quality is in the eyes of the holder, too subjective to comment on. If the bike is RELIABLE, the quality is just fine with me. I think you can do a good job for 2000 or less.

From a purely practical standpoint, a 4000 dollar bike can be replaced twice with 2000 dollar bikes. The second bike possibly offering motor, battery (NEW) and electronic technology newer than the first .....

I'm a fan of the RAD bikes, but keep an open mind regarding comparable bikes.

 

[CSH]

This is a healthy discussion,
especially because of your different viewpoints.
I really appreciate what all of you have to contribute.

I always ask LOTS of questions, and I look for Common denominators, as well as the ol' I didn't think of that.......

I ofton like the Collective Brain approach to decision making. But in the end, it's all on me to digest the information.
It is the experiences of ALL of you that benefits me most.
Keep em' comin'

Craig

 

[Alaskan]

The answer depends on a some additional factors that you did not mention:

1. What kind of use will you be putting to the bike? Daily commuter? Vehicle replacement? Occasional weekend ride? Regular exercise?
2. Are you a do it your selfer?
3. Will you be doing all or most of your own maintenance or be relying on a local bike shop to make adjustments and repairs?
4. Are you generally happy to own fair to middling to save money or are you willing and able to pay more to have higher quality?

 

[DavidBer]

There is so much to add. Your question is like saying what is the best. It is very generic.

Is this bike a weekend bike or a bike you are going to commute daily?
If it is a commute, what is the commute like? Do you have a lot of stop start? Do you have to carry things? Do you have weather issues? Do you have elevation gains? How long is the commute?
Do you need fork suspension?
Do you need seat suspension?
Do you need a rack?

Are you young or old? I know that sounds odd, but that could also mean you should have a step-thru.
Are you short, average, tall?
Are you skinny, average, fat?

Are you good at maintenance?
What is the premium you are willing to pay for little to no maintenance?
How important is a warranty to you?
How important is speed to you?
What do you estimate your annual usage?
Do you need a throttle?


Once you start answering those questions you are going to start to narrow your choices. Then you will see bikes in a range. The one thing to look at in bikes is that price generally means higher end components. The more you spend the better the ________ (put in frame, battery, motor, brakes, shifting,etc.)

The bike and e-bike world is very competitive. There is no one that has a bike that costs $500 to make and are selling it for $10,000. That is why it just goes back to components

In my pathetic opinion, if I were you, I would do the following:

Look at the usage.
Look at the fit.
Look at the reliability.

Then buy.

 

[Katysax]

My point is that all riders are different not that what is right for my sister is right for everyone. With a forum like this what we say goes out to perhaps millions of people looking for bikes. They’ll be googling these answers for years. I just think it’s wrong to imply that you must spend $3-4000 to get a good bike. I don’t think it’s wrong to say that a $3-4000 bike is better or what you prefer. It’s more than necessary to acheive what Craig was asking which is :

“At what price point do you all feel one should expect to pay for good quality, reliability, and money well spent.“

To me that question includes a value element. The real answer is that it depends on the rider. But I think we would all advise against just about any less than $1000 bike for anyone. We’d probably also agree that $10,000 would get you the most expensive and arguably best of what exists. In between it is all trade offs and preferences. We shouldn’t turn off the random internet reader looking for a bike because the price for a decent bike is out of reach when it isn’t.

 

[CSH]

There is so much to add. Your question is like saying what is the best. It is very generic.

Is this bike a weekend bike or a bike you are going to commute daily?
If it is a commute, what is the commute like? Do you have a lot of stop start? Do you have to carry things? Do you have weather issues? Do you have elevation gains? How long is the commute?
Do you need fork suspension?
Do you need seat suspension?
Do you need a rack?

Are you young or old? I know that sounds odd, but that could also mean you should have a step-thru.
Are you short, average, tall?
Are you skinny, average, fat?

Are you good at maintenance?
What is the premium you are willing to pay for little to no maintenance?
How important is a warranty to you?
How important is speed to you?
What do you estimate your annual usage?
Do you need a throttle?


Once you start answering those questions you are going to start to narrow your choices. Then you will see bikes in a range. The one thing to look at in bikes is that price generally means higher end components. The more you spend the better the ________ (put in frame, battery, motor, brakes, shifting,etc.)

The bike and e-bike world is very competitive. There is no one that has a bike that costs $500 to make and are selling it for $10,000. That is why it just goes back to components

In my pathetic opinion, if I were you, I would do the following:

Look at the usage.
Look at the fit.
Look at the reliability.

Then buy.

If anyone is curious, my answers are in BOLD

Is this bike a weekend bike or a bike you are going to commute daily? Weekend. No commuting.
Do you have a lot of stop start? Some (intersections)
Do you have to carry things? No
Do you have weather issues? No
Do you have elevation gains? Moderate
Do you need fork suspension? Only as added comfort
Do you need seat suspension? I think I would like it
Do you need a rack? Not necessarily

Are you young or old? 62
step-thru. Preferred
Are you short, average, tall? 5'8 1/2"
Are you skinny, average, fat? 200lbs

Are you good at maintenance? Not enough so to want to.
What is the premium you are willing to pay for little to no maintenance? Max $3400
How important is a warranty to you? If I had to pay a high price, then I would hope for / expect a Warranty
How important is speed to you? 20mph is fine
What do you estimate your annual usage? A couple rides a week (Neighborhood or Bike Path)
Do you need a throttle? For the Security of quick start from a stop light, or moving out of trouble, it seems like a good Tool.


I hope to be able to Dial in as much exercise as desired (or not).
No street here is perfectly flat, and some have a bit of a climb, (especially at the end of my usual route).
Im not an intense hard rider, but not Grampa yet.

-- What I "think" I like / want:
I like the idea of No Derailleur, But I'm open to advice.
I like the idea of Hydraulic Brakes, But I'm open to advice.
I like the idea of Mid Drive, But Beginning to respect the Hub Drive as well.
I hope for reliability and Money well spent. (not a constant money drain).
I was hoping to find Quality for Under $2,500.
I want to feel comfortable, and a pleasurable ride, But not a full blown "Cruiser Bike" (not too Swept Back)
My wrists can get Numb quickly if I'm bearing down on them too much.

Beleive me, I understand your suggestion that I address all of these questions.
I just didn't want to inflict too much minutia into my original Price question.

Craig