At What Price .......?

[MarkF]

We have 2 Raleigh Retroglide ebikes. Nice upright position. We ride to enjoy the scenery. One is a 2018 model with TransX drive and a throttle and one is the new Royale 2.0. The throttle is nice but I find I very rarely ever use it. Taking off from a start in a high level of assist is plenty fast enough and I don't find I use the throttle here.
In the end, we both settled on bikes that we like the look of. Both have enough power for anything I could ever imagine tackling. Mine has mechanical breaks and my wife has hydraulic. They both work very well at stopping the bikes so it's a non issue with us. I enjoy going out to the garage to get on my bike and take it for a ride. I feel if I would have settled on a bike that I didn't care for the look of, then that would have bothered me more than what motor or brakes it came with. I also really like the idea of no derailleur( looked at Evelo) but those were out of my price range. So in the end, I vote to get a bike that does what you want, and looks good doing it, and start enjoying the fun that an ebike brings to the table.

 

[Katysax]

$2500 will get you many fine bikes that would meet your needs. Since you don’t want to deal with maintenance, are there any shops near you that sell electric bikes? If so your best bet would be to see what they sell and service. From what you say the quality of the support is probably more important than the features of the bike.

You can pretty much put a suspension seat post on any bike. Hydraulic brakes are wonderful but not essential. Mid drive with torque sensor will be smoother but again not essential. Some days I think I might rip the derailleur off my ebike, but that’s how most of them are built. Too swept back will be harder to handle and harder on your seat.

 

[Alaskan]

You should be able to get a decent quality, reliable bike from a local bike shop with good warranty service for $2,000-$3,000 Any more money spent will be for features that you probably do not want or need or just to have a better bike with superior components.

 

[CSH]

$2500 will get you many fine bikes that would meet your needs. Since you don’t want to deal with maintenance, are there any shops near you that sell electric bikes? If so your best bet would be to see what they sell and service. From what you say the quality of the support is probably more important than the features of the bike.

You can pretty much put a suspension seat post on any bike. Hydraulic brakes are wonderful but not essential. Mid drive with torque sensor will be smoother but again not essential. Some days I think I might rip the derailleur off my ebike, but that’s how most of them are built. Too swept back will be harder to handle and harder on your seat.

Hi Katysax,

You mentioned one of those "I didn't know that's........"

You said "too swept back will be harder on the butt".

(of which I Really want to avoid, along with avoiding numb wrists)

In my Test rides the Pedego cruiser had what I felt was way too swept back bars, contributing to wobble. (see pic below)

This next pic shows what I hope isn't "Too swept back". And I think a bike with bars like this would be better on my wrists.

What say Ye !

Craig

 

[CSH]

You should be able to get a decent quality, reliable bike from a local bike shop with good warranty service for $2,000-$3,000 Any more money spent will be for features that you probably do not want or need or just to have a better bike with superior components.

The Common denominators are leaning strongly in that way.
Thank You Alaskan

Craig

 

[CSH]

We have 2 Raleigh Retroglide ebikes. Nice upright position. We ride to enjoy the scenery. One is a 2018 model with TransX drive and a throttle and one is the new Royale 2.0. The throttle is nice but I find I very rarely ever use it. Taking off from a start in a high level of assist is plenty fast enough and I don't find I use the throttle here.
In the end, we both settled on bikes that we like the look of. Both have enough power for anything I could ever imagine tackling. Mine has mechanical breaks and my wife has hydraulic. They both work very well at stopping the bikes so it's a non issue with us. I enjoy going out to the garage to get on my bike and take it for a ride. I feel if I would have settled on a bike that I didn't care for the look of, then that would have bothered me more than what motor or brakes it came with. I also really like the idea of no derailleur( looked at Evelo) but those were out of my price range. So in the end, I vote to get a bike that does what you want, and looks good doing it, and start enjoying the fun that an ebike brings to the table.

Hi Mark,
How many Nm Torque is your Royale ?
Do you find it easy to clime a moderate hill ?
or do you huff & puff ?

 

[rich c]

Is there a problem with wanting a $3000-$4000 eBike? Considering the personal hit I had to take for suggesting such a thing, I'd like to state that I get a great deal of enjoyment from a higher end bike. I started with a $500 eBike, and spent $4700 on my 6th one. I've ridden an accumulated 8000 miles on all these eBikes. I made some good decisions during my 40 year career, and with the ability to spend some of that money while I still can, it makes sense to me to enjoy the best ride I can afford. Maybe some of you haven't ridden a higher end bike. But don't continue to suggest that everyone should settle for a fine bike, when someone in the right position can buy a great bike! With my experiences, I firmly believe in the old adage, "you get what you pay for".

 

[Katysax]

Craig you have it right. The last picture shows bars that will be comfortable at the right height and distance.

The reason too swept back is hard on the butt is weight distribution. When you ride any upright bike you are splitting your weight between your butt and your hands/arms/back. The more weight on one the less on the other. That’s why cruisers need big cushy seats. Racers on the other hand put more weight on their upper body and on the pedals which makes it easier for them to ride on tiny seats. The key to comfort is finding the right balance for how you ride. One reason a lot of people have sore butts is that they mistakenly think that comfort is achieved by sitting up. In fact the most comfort is in finding the right balance between your upper body and your butt. Most bikes don’t allow easy adjustability to find that point.

The single most important factor in how much you will want to ride a bike is comfort. The bike you buy either needs to be comfortable or adjustable. And it is virtually impossible to assess long term comfort from a test ride. What feels comfortable also changes as your fitness and age change. This is a big reason why I think it can be a mistake for an inexperienced rider to spend too much. Better to spend $1000 and ride a while. At that point you might be happy with what you have. You might find you really aren’t that into riding. You might find based on the kind of riding you’ve been doing that a $5000 bike is what you dream of and it is worth it to you. A lot of people say buy the best and buy once. The problem with that is that best is entirely relative. The mere experience of doing something changes your viewpoint. “Best” is a moving target.

 

[CSH]

Is there a problem with wanting a $3000-$4000 eBike? Considering the personal hit I had to take for suggesting such a thing, I'd like to state that I get a great deal of enjoyment from a higher end bike. I started with a $500 eBike, and spent $4700 on my 6th one. I've ridden an accumulated 8000 miles on all these eBikes. I made some good decisions during my 40 year career, and with the ability to spend some of that money while I still can, it makes sense to me to enjoy the best ride I can afford. Maybe some of you haven't ridden a higher end bike. But don't continue to suggest that everyone should settle for a fine bike, when someone in the right position can buy a great bike! With my experiences, I firmly believe in the old adage, "you get what you pay for".

Thanks for your input Rich,
as a Musician, I most defiantly can relate to the Quality of the Instrument.
Im just hoping to find the right balance.

Craig

 

[CSH]

Craig you have it right. The last picture shows bars that will be comfortable at the right height and distance.

The reason too swept back is hard on the butt is weight distribution. When you ride any upright bike you are splitting your weight between your butt and your hands/arms/back. The more weight on one the less on the other. That’s why cruisers need big cushy seats. Racers on the other hand put more weight on their upper body and on the pedals which makes it easier for them to ride on tiny seats. The key to comfort is finding the right balance for how you ride. One reason a lot of people have sore butts is that they mistakenly think that comfort is achieved by sitting up. In fact the most comfort is in finding the right balance between your upper body and your butt. Most bikes don’t allow easy adjustability to find that point.

The single most important factor in how much you will want to ride a bike is comfort. The bike you buy either needs to be comfortable or adjustable. And it is virtually impossible to assess long term comfort from a test ride. What feels comfortable also changes as your fitness and age change. This is a big reason why I think it can be a mistake for an inexperienced rider to spend too much. Better to spend $1000 and ride a while. At that point you might be happy with what you have. You might find you really aren’t that into riding. You might find based on the kind of riding you’ve been doing that a $5000 bike is what you dream of and it is worth it to you. A lot of people say buy the best and buy once. The problem with that is that best is entirely relative. The mere experience of doing something changes your viewpoint. “Best” is a moving target.

Speak Wisely You Do ....... May the Force be with You

(Yoda impression......hmmm)

Craig

 

[MarkF]

Yes it has plenty of torque. I can climb any hill with ease.

 

[CSH]

Craig you have it right. The last picture shows bars that will be comfortable at the right height and distance.

The reason too swept back is hard on the butt is weight distribution. When you ride any upright bike you are splitting your weight between your butt and your hands/arms/back. The more weight on one the less on the other. That’s why cruisers need big cushy seats. Racers on the other hand put more weight on their upper body and on the pedals which makes it easier for them to ride on tiny seats. The key to comfort is finding the right balance for how you ride. One reason a lot of people have sore butts is that they mistakenly think that comfort is achieved by sitting up. In fact the most comfort is in finding the right balance between your upper body and your butt. Most bikes don’t allow easy adjustability to find that point.

The single most important factor in how much you will want to ride a bike is comfort. The bike you buy either needs to be comfortable or adjustable. And it is virtually impossible to assess long term comfort from a test ride. What feels comfortable also changes as your fitness and age change. This is a big reason why I think it can be a mistake for an inexperienced rider to spend too much. Better to spend $1000 and ride a while. At that point you might be happy with what you have. You might find you really aren’t that into riding. You might find based on the kind of riding you’ve been doing that a $5000 bike is what you dream of and it is worth it to you. A lot of people say buy the best and buy once. The problem with that is that best is entirely relative. The mere experience of doing something changes your viewpoint. “Best” is a moving target.

May I get your opinion on this bike specifically. (the Mid Drive version)
Please be critical !
I'm not married to it, and you won't hurt my feelings if you pick it apart.

I know it is at a price point I'd rather not have to spend, but if I end up happy with it, I wouldn't have buyers remorse.

https://www.evelo.com/electric-bicycles/aurora/

Craig

 

[PDoz]

May I get your opinion on this bike specifically. (the Mid Drive version)
Please be critical !
I'm not married to it, and you won't hurt my feelings if you pick it apart.

I know it is at a price point I'd rather not have to spend, but if I end up happy with it, I wouldn't have buyers remorse.

https://www.evelo.com/electric-bicycles/aurora/

Craig

Craig, I'm tempted to vote with Rich c on spend a bit more - there can be a huge difference between " hydraulic brakes" and GOOD hydraulic brakes - I can't see the true specs on that link, but doubt those rotors are more than 180 mm , and suspect the calipers are budget versions? Think fishing line vs guitar string....

You mentioned wanting suspension for comfort - springy things that go up and down are very different to suspension. I'll back off a little here on the basis that I value decent suspension - the shop is about to fit a different airspring into my already amazing fox 34 forks.....but imho if you can't adjust dampening / spring on suspension, it's unlikely to be quality ( tin can vs a drum...)

There are tipping points where cost / benefit starts making sense, we all have different perspectives on that point but it's false economy to save $500 on purchase price then spend $1500 on upgrades. Or spend time riding a bike you don't enjoy for the sake of a few hundred $

I think the most important answer you gave is this bike is a weekender - ie recreation rather than transport. If you want to enjoy a bike rather than just use it, chances are you'll be paying more for that pleasure.

Find a good lbs, one that asks you the questions you have answered here, then lets you feel the difference the extra $ gets. Most importantly, support that lbs rather than trying to save some $ online, because they will be there in 6-12 months time when something isn't quite right

 

[Alaskan]

Craig, I'm tempted to vote with Rich c on spend a bit more - there can be a huge difference between " hydraulic brakes" and GOOD hydraulic brakes - I can't see the true specs on that link, but doubt those rotors are more than 180 mm , and suspect the calipers are budget versions? Think fishing line vs guitar string....

You mentioned wanting suspension for comfort - springy things that go up and down are very different to suspension. I'll back off a little here on the basis that I value decent suspension - the shop is about to fit a different airspring into my already amazing fox 34 forks.....but imho if you can't adjust dampening / spring on suspension, it's unlikely to be quality ( tin can vs a drum...)

There are tipping points where cost / benefit starts making sense, we all have different perspectives on that point but it's false economy to save $500 on purchase price then spend $1500 on upgrades. Or spend time riding a bike you don't enjoy for the sake of a few hundred $

I think the most important answer you gave is this bike is a weekender - ie recreation rather than transport. If you want to enjoy a bike rather than just use it, chances are you'll be paying more for that pleasure.

Find a good lbs, one that asks you the questions you have answered here, then lets you feel the difference the extra $ gets. Most importantly, support that lbs rather than trying to save some $ online, because they will be there in 6-12 months time when something isn't quite right

Solid advice here!

 

[DavidBer]

Craig,

Thanks for the reply. Hopefully, my questions gave you a little more to think about. My agenda is simple: If you find the right bike, you will use it. If not, it will just collect items in your garage. So instead of wasting your money, choose the right one.

When I got my bike, an E-Glide ST I had put together a few 'must-haves.'

I was adamant that it has a throttle. Why? Because I wanted acceleration at a red-light or stop sign.
I was adamant that it has suspension on the fork.
I kinda wanted suspension in the seat post.
I like speed. So 28mph was a requirement.

I commute some/most of the time. It is a 10-mile round trip. It is strictly on the road with a few hundred-foot elevation gain. I have 7 lights and a stop sign. There is no part where I do not have a bike lane.

What have I learned after I got the bike?

The suspension was not necessary. I actually turned the suspension on the fork off. It felt too mushy to me and I liked the rigid feel.
The seat suspension, which I got, meh. Not needed.
The throttle - not necessary at all. I would go to the red-light and drop it down to about 5th gear. If I was on pedal assist 4 or 5 as soon as I started pedaling, I was flying. I didn't realize that the pedaling would get me to speed then assist. I always thought it was pure assist. Now, the throttle did come in handy once. The chain came off about 1/2 mile from my house. Instead of putting the chain back on, I just used the throttle.
The speed, well, I have done over 35 on the bike according to ride with GPS. However, I tend to average a little under 20 mph.

Now as far as rides, I'd suggest that you do what I did. Rent a bike first. Try it out. See if it is a fad or something that you would enjoy. I rented a Turbo Como 3.0. It had more swept back bars than the E-Glide. It had a bigger cushier seat than the E-Glide. As was mentioned, more weight was on my butt instead of the arms. I felt that the Specialized was more comfortable. It also had another benefit over the E-Glide. It had smoother tires. I bring that up because tires, just like on a car, can seriously impact the comfort level. You can have very hard tires that are performance driven and you will get longer lasting but you will feel the road! Softer tires and it's less miles on the tires but it's more comfortable.

I do not know where in SoCal you live and the local bike store scenario. I am in Santa Barbara. There are pros and cons to purchasing a bike online versus the local bike store. While it might seem that the local bike store is the best route, it may not. That assumes that they carry something that fits your checklist instead of selling you something they have in stock. It is not always about price.

Now with that said . . . as you are in SoCal, if you have an opportunity, I'd take the time and visit Chris at Propel Bikes in Long Beach. I'd also take the time and visit David at E-Glide bikes. When I was looking for bikes for my wife and I, I went to see Chris at Propel. All I can say is WOW. Seriously . . . WOW. The guy is awesome. He knows his $hit really well. He only likes to sell bikes though that have Bosch motors. That is his forte and I think he has sold a ton of bikes. He looks at it from the service standpoint. Bosch motors have been the most reliable for him. When I test drove a Reise and Mueller, it made me re-think the throttle issue. It didn't have one and I didn't need it at any of the lights. Seriously, Chris is awesome. If my wife would have let me, I would have ordered two Reise and Mueller's from him. The other guy to see is David at E-Glide in Santa Monica. David is a little older than you and embodies Santa Monica. He is really mellow and gives awesome advice in a no pressure way. He did something that caught me off guard and showed me how he treats people. My wife is 6'1.5" tall. I talked to David and said that we would like to come by and test drive a bike. He said sure and asked when. I told him, it was a few days later. I showed up when I said I would. David had two bikes ready for us to test drive. He had put a 'woman's seat' on her bike and raised the seat to where he thought it would fit her and then had a man's seat for me to test drive. That was a very nice gesture. We wound up walking out with 2 bikes. My wife made me take the difference between the 2 Riesse and Mueller and the 2 E-glides to put towards a vacation for us.

Now the R&M was a 7k bike and the E-Glide is a 1700 bike. Is there a difference? OH HECK YEAH. The R&M is an incredible bike. Is the E-Glide worth the 1700? Oh HECK YEAH. When I went to two local bike stores, I was disappointed in the service. I would not recommend them. That is what made me look online.

Good luck in whatever you do. They are a blast.

 

[MarkF]

If your close to Orange County go see Sam at. (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[Alaskan]

In addition to Chris at Propel, you should also check out LA Fly Rides https://laflyrides.com/ on Hollywood Blvd. They do rentals and carry a nice assortment of brands. They have given me great deals and outstanding service. There are some great people to choose from. If you are within two hours of these shops, I wouldn't even think about buying on line. The best of machines can have problems. Having a team to service them is worth it.

 

[CSH]

Fantastic words Guys........... and Very encouraging !

I love the detail, and passion your putting into my quest.

I am near enough to ALL those LBS, I have been to Sam's Shop in Fullerton a few times, plus 5 other shops.

My only disappointment has been, Test riding is usually restricted to going Round & Round a small parking lot .
Not at all realistic ( ie: No Hills).

And I hate to say it...... but some LBS seem Jaded.
As with many Brick & Mortar Retailers, they Probably hate the Online presences, and educating consumers by answering questions over and over.......... But HEY ! I shouldn't feel like I'm walking on egg shells...... I'm the one with the Money, Right ?
Even though I am VERY polite and Respectful, and would happily give my business to the LBS, they sometimes act indifferent.

Sorry, I'm showing a little Frustration there................... Back to the Positive Vibe you guys are putting into this.

I appreciate any of you calling out particular Models, or brands, (such as David did - E-Glide), for me to consider.
I will pay what ever it takes between 1,000 to 3,500 (with a cap at $3500), to be content with my outcome.

Thank you all for helping, it's appreciated,

Craig

 

[DavidBer]

Craig,

I can't speak beyond David at E-Glide or Chris at Propel. But I can tell you how they treated me.

Test drive with Chris was about 30 minutes long. We, and yes, that is a we, as him and I, went from his store, through downtown, over a bridge, along the water on a bike path and then into a very large open parking lot. He brought a bike for him to ride that he thought that I would like to try as well. Like I said . . . very good and incredible bikes. Honestly though, I am not sure if Propel sells any bike as low as 3500. They may have some really close.

I am not trying to persuade you by any means on the bike side, but . . . if this is just a weekend bike, I think you might be right and seeing that you don't need to spend a lot.

The test drive with David was a little different. As I mentioned, he had two bikes ready for me. Now, when I said David embodies Santa Monica, I mean it. The shop hours are 9 to 5. That doesn't mean that they are there from 9 to 5. It means that is what they strive for The other guy there, I think his name is Michael, got there at 9:30 and David showed up close to 10. They will tell you that if their work is done at 4, they will leave at 4. So when we got there, David was not there. In my typical East Coast mentality, 15 minutes early is on time. David got there when he said he would be there though. He pulled the bikes out for us to ride. Michael fitted us quickly. He said, take them where you want as long as you want. We then drove them around the neighborhood. Was there hills? Nope. Not like the bridge I went over. Was there elevation gains? Yeah. That riding though was more in line with where we ride.

Now we also test drove the Radcity step thru. That testdrive was a joke. The bike was at b8ta in Santa Monica. B8ta is in a mall. It was on the 2nd floor. The test drive was riding the bike on the 2nd floor near an elevator. That was pathetic.

From a pure value standpoint, the E-Glide is a nice bike. Someone in these forums described it to me when I was comparing the Rad vs. E-Glide. They said the Rad is a $1200 bike selling for $1500. The E-Glide is a $2200 bike selling for $1700.

I have put a hundred or so miles on the E-Glide. I am going to be on it in about 20 minutes! Do I like it? Yes. Is it perfect? Nope. I preferred the comfort of the Specialized Turbo Como 3 over the E-Glide. I liked the tires better on the Como. The E-Glide uses Schwalbe Marathons, which are VERY GOOD tires. It's just that they are made for the street and light trails. I am NEVER on a trail. I am looking at replacing the grips with Ergons. The E-Glide is also pretty light for a E-Bike. It is 52lbs.

Now my wife is the smart one. I had brought up the comfort level of the Specialized and she liked it as well. She said, "We got two bikes for the price of one Specialized. We got two bikes and a very nice vacation compared to two Riese and Muellers. I am happy!" I honestly think that if we rode five days a week as pure commuters, we would have ended up with two Riese and Muellers. I ride mine 2 days a week as a commute. I'd like to do 5, but I sometimes have to go see clients. She rides hers 1 once every other week but wants to ride more. So I am happy with her being smarter than I am

Now to promote this site a little. In all honesty, I would have never found Chris or David without the site. I had watched Court's review of the Rad's and was getting close to getting two. The test drive made me re-think it. I happened to look on craigslist and then saw E-Glide. I came back to the forums and read and watched the videos. I also watched the videos that Court did with Chris. I know Court charges for the work and it's worth it. Without the reviews, I would have not gone to either of these places to look at the bikes.

 

[CSH]

Craig,

I can't speak beyond David at E-Glide or Chris at Propel. But I can tell you how they treated me.

Test drive with Chris was about 30 minutes long. We, and yes, that is a we, as him and I, went from his store, through downtown, over a bridge, along the water on a bike path and then into a very large open parking lot. He brought a bike for him to ride that he thought that I would like to try as well. Like I said . . . very good and incredible bikes. Honestly though, I am not sure if Propel sells any bike as low as 3500. They may have some really close.

I am not trying to persuade you by any means on the bike side, but . . . if this is just a weekend bike, I think you might be right and seeing that you don't need to spend a lot.

The test drive with David was a little different. As I mentioned, he had two bikes ready for me. Now, when I said David embodies Santa Monica, I mean it. The shop hours are 9 to 5. That doesn't mean that they are there from 9 to 5. It means that is what they strive for The other guy there, I think his name is Michael, got there at 9:30 and David showed up close to 10. They will tell you that if their work is done at 4, they will leave at 4. So when we got there, David was not there. In my typical East Coast mentality, 15 minutes early is on time. David got there when he said he would be there though. He pulled the bikes out for us to ride. Michael fitted us quickly. He said, take them where you want as long as you want. We then drove them around the neighborhood. Was there hills? Nope. Not like the bridge I went over. Was there elevation gains? Yeah. That riding though was more in line with where we ride.

Now we also test drove the Radcity step thru. That testdrive was a joke. The bike was at b8ta in Santa Monica. B8ta is in a mall. It was on the 2nd floor. The test drive was riding the bike on the 2nd floor near an elevator. That was pathetic.

From a pure value standpoint, the E-Glide is a nice bike. Someone in these forums described it to me when I was comparing the Rad vs. E-Glide. They said the Rad is a $1200 bike selling for $1500. The E-Glide is a $2200 bike selling for $1700.

I have put a hundred or so miles on the E-Glide. I am going to be on it in about 20 minutes! Do I like it? Yes. Is it perfect? Nope. I preferred the comfort of the Specialized Turbo Como 3 over the E-Glide. I liked the tires better on the Como. The E-Glide uses Schwalbe Marathons, which are VERY GOOD tires. It's just that they are made for the street and light trails. I am NEVER on a trail. I am looking at replacing the grips with Ergons. The E-Glide is also pretty light for a E-Bike. It is 52lbs.

Now my wife is the smart one. I had brought up the comfort level of the Specialized and she liked it as well. She said, "We got two bikes for the price of one Specialized. We got two bikes and a very nice vacation compared to two Riese and Muellers. I am happy!" I honestly think that if we rode five days a week as pure commuters, we would have ended up with two Riese and Muellers. I ride mine 2 days a week as a commute. I'd like to do 5, but I sometimes have to go see clients. She rides hers 1 once every other week but wants to ride more. So I am happy with her being smarter than I am

Now to promote this site a little. In all honesty, I would have never found Chris or David without the site. I had watched Court's review of the Rad's and was getting close to getting two. The test drive made me re-think it. I happened to look on craigslist and then saw E-Glide. I came back to the forums and read and watched the videos. I also watched the videos that Court did with Chris. I know Court charges for the work and it's worth it. Without the reviews, I would have not gone to either of these places to look at the bikes.

Yo ! David !
(a little bit of "East Coast" there for ya....... from a "West Coast" Dude)

Thanks for putting so much thought into my questions.

Craig