Zen Photon Pro- Preorder | 1040Wh UL Certified battery | 500W nominal/900W peak power Torque-sensing motor w/ Throttle | USD 2999 | CAD 3999

[Grenseal]

Long range mode engaged!
Testing the cargo capacity today. In the front is a cooler full of ice and Gatorade. In the back, some clothes and granola bars for energy.
We covered 80km with about a third of the way in the middle of a severe thunder storm. Battery remaining at the end of the trip was 43%; we used 57% battery for 80km, not bad.
One of these day, the weather would cooperated and we can see how far 100% can go.

 

[mlandau]

What PAS levels? What speed?

 

[Grenseal]

What PAS levels? What speed?

Level 1 and moving speed was anywhere between 18km/hr - 45km/hr.

 

[CincyKid]

Any news on the bikes stuck in customs? Pretty sure mine is part of that since I was a late February/March order.

The folks who monitor this board are on the way to China. I understand Monday is a holiday. So probably Tuesday for more information. Have you spoken with Deepak?

 

[Kriti Yad]

Any news on the bikes stuck in customs? Pretty sure mine is part of that since I was a late February/March order

Yes! Finally, We've started receiving updates from CBS about bikes that are getting cleared. Around 10 bikes were cleared on Friday and the team is working with UPS/Canpar to get them shipped from CBS warehouse to customers.
We are anticipating that by Tuesday or Wednesday all bikes will be released and we should be able to ship them.

 

[komalthelist]

Did my first 100km (60 mile) ride. Started with a full 100% battery, finished with 21%. Just PAS 1 for most of the ride with the odd throttle. I’m a bit of a heavier rider, so getting 140km is bit unrealistic me, but I’m sure others can. Already have over 1500km on the bike and I’m loving it. Hope you all get to enjoy your bikes soon enough.

 

[Kriti Yad]

Did my first 100km (60 mile) ride. Started with a full 100% battery, finished with 21%. Just PAS 1 for most of the ride with the odd throttle. I’m a bit of a heavier rider, so getting 140km is bit unrealistic me, but I’m sure others can. Already have over 1500km on the bike and I’m loving it. Hope you all get to enjoy your bikes soon enough.
View attachment 176219View attachment 176220

This is super awesome!! Thanks for sharing and perhaps, if you can share pictures of the bike, Gates belt condition every 500/1000kms, it would make for a real-world testimony of the long-term durability of the Gates belt drive and Enviolo hub.

 

[Explorer-1]

@Kriti Yad Do you have extra 1040Wh batteries in route for US inventory?

 

[Grenseal]

80km and 53% left, maybe it can reach 140km after all.

 

[Grenseal]

147.9km with 5% left. Probably safe to say that it can go 150km per full charge. Probably not good for the battery to do this though. Assist level 1 most of the way.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Probably not good for the battery to do this though.

Please never try discharging the battery below 5%!

 

[jim1274]

This is typical of recommended “good battery practices”:

Depth Of Discharge

According to many sources, lithium-ion doesn’t like being fully discharged. So try to avoid draining your batteries below about 25% when possible. If unavoidable, then charge it back up to above 25% as soon as possible so the time spent near empty is minimized.


Depth Of Charge

Unlike most other battery types (especially lead acid), lithium-ion batteries do not like being stored at high charge levels. Charging and then storing them above 80% hastens capacity loss. So charge the battery to 80% or a bit less if that will get you through the day/week.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Also understand that most controllers and BMS take this into account and that the percentage displayed is the usable percentage and not the actual percentage of battery capacity. On a 48v system the typical 0% displayed is around 39v to 40v which is approximately 30% of actual battery capacity. 34.5v (2.65v/cell) is actual 0% on many of the popular 18650 cells. Some cells like the 21700 can be as low as 2.50v/cell.
That said I would still avoid battery high 100% and low 0% voltages whenever possible

 

[Stefan Mikes]

This is typical of recommended “good battery practices”:

Depth Of Discharge

According to many sources, lithium-ion doesn’t like being fully discharged. So try to avoid draining your batteries below about 25% when possible. If unavoidable, then charge it back up to above 25% as soon as possible so the time spent near empty is minimized.


Depth Of Charge

Unlike most other battery types (especially lead acid), lithium-ion batteries do not like being stored at high charge levels. Charging and then storing them above 80% hastens capacity loss. So charge the battery to 80% or a bit less if that will get you through the day/week.

These rules are very conservative. While they indeed help improving the battery longevity, these are impractical for a long distance rider. It is nothing wrong to start a long ride at 100% batteries' charge and end it at 5%. However, riding below 5% is dangerous for the battery and electronics, that's why some advanced brands disconnect the e-bike assistance at that point, just leaving the lighting and the e-bike control system operating.

Drily saying: If I observed the "good battery practices" I would have never ridden for 208 km on a single day or 263 km on a two-day race.

 

[Gionnirocket]

These rules are very conservative. While they indeed help improving the battery longevity, these are impractical for a long distance rider. It is nothing wrong to start a long ride at 100% batteries' charge and end it at 5%. However, riding below 5% is dangerous for the battery and electronics, that's why some advanced brands disconnect the e-bike assistance at that point, just leaving the lighting and the e-bike control system operating.

Advanced brands? What a crock of s*it.
All batteries and controllers have a low voltage cut off and as eluded too earlier it's at the end of the safe usable range. Even my 80v lawn tools shuts down at approximately 25% of actual battery capacity.

Drily saying: If I observed the "good battery practices" I would have never ridden for 208 km on a single day or 263 km on a two-day race.

Who cares Captain Obtuse, I mean how many times have you said this though I am thankful this time without the Strava stats, maps and especially the photos. .
No one is saying never do it... Just not to when unnecessary.

This is typical of recommended “good battery practices”:
Depth Of Charge
So charge the battery to 80% or a bit less if that will get you through the day/week.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I wonder whether Zen Photon actually cuts the assistance at 5% of the battery charge. @Kriti Yad?

 

[Gionnirocket]

I wonder whether Zen Photon actually cuts the assistance at 5% of the battery charge.

What part of ALL Li_ion systems have a Low Voltage Cut_off don't you understand?
The failure / danger rate would be through the roof if not and left to the end user.
Typical for an 18650 cell that has a working range down to 2.50 - 2.65V the LVC is set to 3v (>20% of actual capacity) in the BMS and is typically a little higher in the motor controller as it monitors total pack voltage. 48v system: LVC- 40v - 41v (+/- 3.1V x 13 cells)
The battery becomes very inefficient below this and you wouldn't get much further anyway.
What you describe as 5% is arbitrary
Poland may have advanced eBikes.... But the people?

 

[BlackHand]

Advanced brands? What a crock of s*it.
All batteries and controllers have a low voltage cut off and as eluded too earlier it's at the end of the safe usable range. Even my 80v lawn tools shuts down at approximately 25% of actual battery capacity.

I think the point is that a well designed system is likely to have a programmable cut-off(by the OEM not end user). So the assistance is set to cut off ABOVE the safe range and the last few % is reserved for your lights and e-shifting to allow you to pedal home safely.

The cut-off on lawn tools can be much simpler because the battery typically just powers 1 function.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I think the point is that a well designed system is likely to have a programmable cut-off(by the OEM not end user). So the assistance is set to cut off ABOVE the safe range and the last few % is reserved for your lights and e-shifting to allow you to pedal home safely.

The cut-off on lawn tools can be much simpler because the battery typically just powers 1 function.

Yeah... But we both know that's not what he was trying to convey.
The Cutoff in the BMS is not programmable and is a set safety feature matched to the particular cells used.
Programmable cut off within the controller may or may not be user adjustable and this is as varied as there are ebikes. One could argue that a more knowledgeable user could set a more effective cutoff than a one size fits all approach. Since the motor cutoff is set above the battery cutoff it is still possible to have battery power for accessories. YMMV
But I can understand how this may seem advanced to the simple.

 

[Explorer-1]

Summary, don't get technical advice from inappropriate internet forums. The devil is in the details… there are a lot of details… the details are left as an additional exercise for the user. More people are harmed by bad advise than anything else.