You bought from someone else… now you expect the reseller you didn’t purchase from to support you!

[PedalUma]

Sometimes free stuff leads to paid stuff. Two examples: 1) A guy brought me a bike. I spent 45-minutes with him talking about it and told him the truth in all regards and answered all of his questions. Bottom line, it was not worth investing any more in that bike. He gave me a five-star review on Google Maps. 2) Last Sunday afternoon I got a call. I met the guy in a park to talk about what was going on with his bike. We spent one-hour talking. Monday I did the repairs. He saw me getting deliveries of motors, batteries and he had conversations with four people riding my electric bikes, including someone who messed up but is getting a free motor anyway. I gave him a loaner bike to ride while his was being serviced. Yesterday, Tuesday, he purchased a red Boda Boda for his wife and met with me to look at it and just talk. Today the Boda Boda is getting converted to electric with many upgrades. And he gave me a five-star review.
The photo is of a similar green Boda Boda mid-drive. Check out the white wire to the display.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Sometimes free stuff leads to paid stuff. Two examples: 1) A guy brought me a bike. I spent 45-minutes with him talking about it and told him the truth in all regards and answered all of his questions. Bottom line, it was not worth investing any more in that bike. He gave me a five-star review on Google Maps. 2) Last Sunday afternoon I got a call. I met the guy in a park to talk about what was going on with his bike. We spent one-hour talking. Monday I did the repairs. He saw me getting deliveries of motors, batteries and he had conversations with four people riding my electric bikes, including someone who messed up but is getting a free motor anyway. I gave him a loaner bike to ride while his was being serviced. Yesterday, Tuesday, he purchased a red Boda Boda for his wife and met with me to look at it and just talk. Today the Boda Boda is getting converted to electric with many upgrades. And he gave me a five-star review.
The photo is of a similar green Boda Boda mid-drive. Check out the white wire to the display.

One case when the visible wires and cables are a plus!

 

[Dallant]

Well it seems in my attempt at a little levity, I ruffled a few parties


You're in luck... nowadays there's many to choose from. And if none of the existing nail it down for you, there's still about 20 some_odd letters to choose from that can be added to the ever growing string.



I didn't mean to suggest that, and I believe I did say that it does have value. But again you paid for it in advance.
Trek putting an inadequate rotor on the build that deformed almost instantly and which required that you hump the bike to two different shops for replacement... I don't consider any great value. Same goes for waiting months for a proprietary way over priced battery. It's all in perspective.
And yes if I have to order a part obviously that isn't included in my 30 minutes of repair time, but it's no different than waiting for a battery or rotor in your case...so what's your advantage? And while I wait I typically still have use of the bike nor do I have to hump it back for a second visit to do so.
And most bike repairs can be done with basic hand tools, Hex wrenches, box /open_end wrenches and a ratchet of which I've owned for most of my life as they have a million and one uses. And the few specialty tools that I've purchased are a far better investment then the gas used humping a bike around town. Again, not better for all... but better for me.
And lastly my comment about women wasn't meant as an insult to them... as they typically have other priorities and rightfully so.
I'll let my uncle Vito explain.

New video by Gionni Rocket

photos.app.goo.gl

I know.... I'm a dick.

Not sure who you think I paid more than or specifically for what. And, duh, anyone who has a real warranty pays in advance. I sense a bit of jealousy that I’m in a position to do that and evidently you aren’t. How do you do software updates?
I’ve been rewarded with 3 ebikes that have never HAD to be worked on. The Rail’s rotor worked perfectly, just made an irritating noise. The advantage is a better, more reliable quality of ebikes and a better network should I need it. I can learn more about doing my own work here and elsewhere on the interwebs.
I actually laugh when reading threads where folks are so thrilled they saved a few bucks ordering online to China and then their great bargain won’t work and they’re begging for help. In the meantime I’m supporting my local Trek dealer and a great midwestern company.

 

[rawlus]

i’ve never given it a thought of ranking myself or my purchase decisions against those of others. i hold myself accountable for my own decisions. sometimes i make what i think are good decisions for me, sometimes i don’t. but i try not to shame the choices of others. there’s enough elitism and classism in this world i don’t need to add to it.

 

[tomjasz]

What I find most discouraging are the requests for support when Bafang USA and Amazon buyers discover they have little or no support. The shop that does answer calls gets hammered with support requests from other reseller sales.

It's true that occasionally a customer is gained after they were helped, but that's a very small group.

So Al, tell me, would you spend an hour on the phone or email linking the fellow that purchased elsewhere?
I'm amazed by the number of kit builders that can't manage a Google search. Yesterday it was "how do I figure out how to troubleshoot my BBSHD. Simply searching troubleshoot BBSHD.

Buyers are lead to believe that Bafang provides a warranty and ALL resellers should honor it. In FACT Bafang never replaces warranty parts sent to a customer. It's on the reseller.

"I worked retail" sounds like "I have a black friend."

 

[rawlus]

IMHO a DIYer assumes responsibility for the problems they create and they should expect to pay if they’re turning to a professional for help. If they don’t want to pay, then google, reddit, etc are the options available to them for free. the ebike reddit group has all manner of people trying to DIy battery packs and motor swaps and stuff who clearly have zero experience and very little self-education. I no longer extend my knowledge to these people and let them fend for themselves because it can be frustrating using all of your education and experience and resourcefulness for individuals who choose for whatever reason to use none of their own.

 

[RunForTheHills]

IMHO a DIYer assumes responsibility for the problems they create and they should expect to pay if they’re turning to a professional for help. If they don’t want to pay, then google, reddit, etc are the options available to them for free. the ebike reddit group has all manner of people trying to DIy battery packs and motor swaps and stuff who clearly have zero experience and very little self-education. I no longer extend my knowledge to these people and let them fend for themselves because it can be frustrating using all of your education and experience and resourcefulness for individuals who choose for whatever reason to use none of their own.

I agree, but the professionals willing to work on a DIY ebike are few and far between. It is a chicken and egg problem, but I believe that we need more ebike mechanics/technicians if we want to grow the ebike market. Not that I am willing to go into that business...

 

[PedalUma]

Some of you saw the photo. I worked on an HD backyard build last week that was put together with garbage twisty ties. I let owners know upfront that I am not responsible for the electrical or workmanship of their home build. That bike had two cogs that were badly worn. So it was just a matter of a new chain and gears. Invariably these backyard pit-bull breeder bikes are too heavy to put in a stand. That one had a two-inch long seat post anyway. And they have all kinds of crap on the handlebar so you can't just flip it upside down. The HD had nearly welded the freewheel cluster to the hub. It took heat, freeing oil and a two-foot long handle to get the old cluster off. It is true that that stuff is a waste of time. But it is something that LBS will not touch and the biking community talks. When I give someone like that a loaner they are floored.
An amazing bike is due to come in for conversion in several minutes. It is a cargo bike that looks like it has a bathtub in front from the Netherlands.
How to see if gears are worn: Pick a cog and measure its width inside the teeth with a caliper. Compare that span to a new one. If the first one is less then it is toast.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Not sure who you think I paid more than or specifically for what. And, duh, anyone who has a real warranty pays in advance. I sense a bit of jealousy that I’m in a position to do that and evidently you aren’t. How do you do software updates?
I’ve been rewarded with 3 ebikes that have never HAD to be worked on. The Rail’s rotor worked perfectly, just made an irritating noise. The advantage is a better, more reliable quality of ebikes and a better network should I need it. I can learn more about doing my own work here and elsewhere on the interwebs.
I actually laugh when reading threads where folks are so thrilled they saved a few bucks ordering online to China and then their great bargain won’t work and they’re begging for help. In the meantime I’m supporting my local Trek dealer and a great midwestern company.

Well the op is willing to support his product sales no problem, just as Trek supports theirs. The point being at an upfront cost, because as you state, a warranty costs. No one is doing anything out of the goodness of thier heart or some more ethical business practice or providing some far superior product.
Those that you talk about complaining about their China bikes, or those needling the OP for help are many times not the sharpest tools in the shed and might possibly deserve to learn a lesson. But sometimes they're not the most fortunate of us and are buying what they can afford. With my limited experience I try to help the latter if I can and I don't condemn or look down upon them. And your sense that I may be jealous is far off as I'm in a position to have any bike my heart desires. But the older I get the gathering of material items and the posting of 10's of photos of what I just bought is not even on the list of what brings me joy.
And again it comes down to perspective.... but a rotor that is making noise because it deforms is not working perfectly and is undersized (to thin) for the weight of the bike it is trying to stop and the force the caliper is able to exert. So a tale of fabulous warranty repair to you seems more of an attempt to cut corners to me. Good thing is that you paid for that rotor 10 times over so in the end you get another and Trek still makes a healthy profit...so as you initially said, everyone is happy.

 

[rawlus]

an informed buyer will evaluate the pros of low cost against the potential cons of lack of professional service.

buying a $1000 ebike direct i’d already determined i’d not be bringing it to the LBS for repairs. they sell bikes starting at 3x the price and they are a great shop but it’s clear to me they’re not looking for that type of business and i don’t blame them.

if i wasn’t self sufficient then i’d probably have to spend a lot more equity to get a bike that i’d have more confidence in getting pros to service…

like others i have the $ to do what i want but $2K for 2 ebikes was about what i was wanting to spend on a first purchase. along with that i knowingly took on the responsibility of self support and maintenance.

it’s all good and i’m happy.

 

[ruffruff]

Bike it off Tom

 

[AHicks]

What I find most discouraging are the requests for support when Bafang USA and Amazon buyers discover they have little or no support. The shop that does answer calls gets hammered with support requests from other reseller sales.

It's true that occasionally a customer is gained after they were helped, but that's a very small group.

So Al, tell me, would you spend an hour on the phone or email linking the fellow that purchased elsewhere?
I'm amazed by the number of kit builders that can't manage a Google search. Yesterday it was "how do I figure out how to troubleshoot my BBSHD. Simply searching troubleshoot BBSHD.

Buyers are lead to believe that Bafang provides a warranty and ALL resellers should honor it. In FACT Bafang never replaces warranty parts sent to a customer. It's on the reseller.

"I worked retail" sounds like "I have a black friend."

Short answer-
Nope. I burnt out on dealing with customers 30 years ago. As mentioned, I changed careers with that fact in mind. I love the business side of things, but I flat don't have the patience to deal with a constant string of customers any more.

You are burnt out.

I worked retail for 20 years as a service manager for a large RV dealership. Wrote every work order. I ran a marina, dealing with prima donna boat owners (my boat sank in YOUR slip, what are YOU going to do about it?). Then, while learning about personal computers when they first hit the market, I learned how to sell them. That's when the opportuity to bury myself deep in the bowels of a big warehouse presented itself, and I jumped on it with both feet, retiring from that after over 20 years. Point? I worked retail.... -Al

 

[Dallant]

Well the op is willing to support his product sales no problem, just as Trek supports theirs. The point being at an upfront cost, because as you state, a warranty costs. No one is doing anything out of the goodness of thier heart or some more ethical business practice or providing some far superior product.
Those that you talk about complaining about their China bikes, or those needling the OP for help are many times not the sharpest tools in the shed and might possibly deserve to learn a lesson. But sometimes they're not the most fortunate of us and are buying what they can afford. With my limited experience I try to help the latter if I can and I don't condemn or look down upon them. And your sense that I may be jealous is far off as I'm in a position to have any bike my heart desires. But the older I get the gathering of material items and the posting of 10's of photos of what I just bought is not even on the list of what brings me joy.
And again it comes down to perspective.... but a rotor that is making noise because it deforms is not working perfectly and is undersized (to thin) for the weight of the bike it is trying to stop and the force the caliper is able to exert. So a tale of fabulous warranty repair to you seems more of an attempt to cut corners to me. Good thing is that you paid for that rotor 10 times over so in the end you get another and Trek still makes a healthy profit...so as you initially said, everyone is happy.

The rotor worked perfectly in that it stopped the bike when called upon and actually made less noise when being engaged. Yes, I expect Trek to make a profit and yes, they might’ve been cutting a corner by choosing that particular rotor. Most bike makers have places they cut corners. That said, the original rotor was not “to thin” but lacked inner area support. Second rotor had a better structure but was exactly the same 1.8mm thickness. The rear original rotor is exactly the same, hasn’t make a peep and the Rail stops like a champ.
So apparently you don’t own any ebike but you’ll work on one for the Chinese supporters or just spend a ton of time on an ebike forum to get your jollies watching us owners showing pics of our bikes.

 

[PedalUma]

My last job was retail and that sucked but at least I could also be a bike mechanic on the job while doing sales and stocking. Before that it was online Sales Support for a high-end online bike seller with many retail locations. There is a lot of risk going independent but freight day is my freight. And I have total autonomy. People know that all I have is my reputation and that is better service than an 800 number to a call center.
Here is the Bath Tub bike that just came in.

 

[Kayakguy]

Businesses and hobbies don't mix well at all. A lot of retirement funds are lost that way over and over again! Tough lesson....

Many people are intrigued by the idea of making their hobby (something they love) their source of income. Too often, they end up losing their enthusiasm for the activity/sport and get burned out in all the usual ways. I've seen it happen in kayaking, the usual commercial venture consisting of guiding or teaching, or a combination of those, with maybe some marketing of kayaks or accessories thrown in.

 

[Gionnirocket]

The rotor worked perfectly in that it stopped the bike when called upon and actually made less noise when being engaged. Yes, I expect Trek to make a profit and yes, they might’ve been cutting a corner by choosing that particular rotor. Most bike makers have places they cut corners. That said, the original rotor was not “to thin” but lacked inner area support. Second rotor had a better structure but was exactly the same 1.8mm thickness. The rear original rotor is exactly the same, hasn’t make a peep and the Rail stops like a champ.
So apparently you don’t own any ebike but you’ll work on one for the Chinese supporters or just spend a ton of time on an ebike forum to get your jollies watching us owners showing pics of our bikes.

Boy... Panties in a bunch was an understatement.
I own an eBike and ride every single day. There's just no need to repeatedly post "look at me " photos and skewed stories about warranty repair.
And I try to help anyone who I think I can, regardless of what they ride. But just as there are those that need to learn in the Chinese market, there's just as many in the please look at me and my toys market. I just have less sympathy for the latter.
Back to the rotor.. Less structure or thinner... What's the difference? Enjoy humping your bike around town for that world class support... I'll be riding.

 

[PedalUma]

Many people are intrigued by the idea of making their hobby (something they love) their source of income. Too often, they end up losing their enthusiasm for the activity/sport and get burned out in all the usual ways. I've seen it happen in kayaking, the usual commercial venture consisting of guiding or teaching, or a combination of those, with maybe some marketing of kayaks or accessories thrown in.

During the first Covid shut down it was good that I had my side gig going that has now grown to be my main thing. I was doing low cost tune ups for families as well as doing conversions and working on the eBikes no one else would touch. Since the first shutdown I have not seen any TV and canceled online movies to free up creativity and time. I will also be making air scrubbers this fire season again. If my interests evolve then I will just pivot in that direction. And maybe work for a big company at the same time. Maybe I will take up painting nudes or landscapes as my side thing. Who knows? For now I am having fun with bikes.

 

[m@Robertson]

Seriously? You saved a few bucks and bought on Amazon. They don’t respond, now I should provide support? Nice guys finish last.
I still respond. I’m a a nice guy but that doesn’t buy dinner. One call, OK. Two calls and I still try to help. But FFS use Google. It’s easy. Now f*ck off.

For a small business where there are multiple DIY channels, this is the way it has to be: If you (the bargain hunter) go out on your own... you stay out on your own ... for everything. Exception to that would be getting service from the original vendor.

If you cut corners on price then you are agreeing, in advance, that you have the experience to either fix whatever problems come up or you can afford to write off a boat anchor if thats what it turns into. If you want service, go to a vendor that offers it, and pay the higher price that justifies the safety net.

I use lowest-cost providers that I have found to be also reliable in terms of delivering me what I expect in working order. I wouldn't call up @tomjasz and ask for some form of tech support or repair when I didn't help support him with a sale. To do otherwise is a d*ck move.

But people by and large are d*cks so sadly it doesn't surprise me this happens and some people can think its ok to do it.

 

[Gionnirocket]

For a small business where there are multiple DIY channels, this is the way it has to be: If you (the bargain hunter) go out on your own... you stay out on your own ... for everything. Exception to that would be getting service from the original vendor.

If you cut corners on price then you are agreeing, in advance, that you have the experience to either fix whatever problems come up or you can afford to write off a boat anchor if thats what it turns into. If you want service, go to a vendor that offers it, and pay the higher price that justifies the safety net.

I use lowest-cost providers that I have found to be also reliable in terms of delivering me what I expect in working order. I wouldn't call up @tomjasz and ask for some form of tech support or repair when I didn't help support him with a sale. To do otherwise is a d*ck move.

But people by and large are d*cks so sadly it doesn't surprise me this happens and some people can think its ok to do it.

As you can see in this thread, I'm definitely a dick... Just not the kinda dick that would piss off Santo Bafango

 

[PedalUma]

Side note, somewhat related: I was in a relationship with the same person for 31-years. I fixed everything from appliances to cars to the roof. Everything magically worked in her world. Then she filed for divorce. The next week she called a plumber for the first time in her life. And had a major wake up call when she got the bill as to the actual value of what was invisibly done all those years. Am I a dick for laughing now?