kmccune
Well-Known Member
The propaganda machine has to spew out something, the worst possible thing that could happen to Putin now would be to develop a conscience.
World War III
- Thread starter ChezCheese:)
- Start date
- Status
ChezCheese:)
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Kitsap Co, WA
Speaking of loose lips, an article in the NYT enumerates armaments being shipped into Ukraine from Slovakia. You have to wonder why they arent worried about broadcasting this info about supply lines and equipment. But I suppose the Russians can see things from satellites or whatever Spyworld technology they may have.
As for those who say we are not already in World War III, the defense minister of Slovakia has no doubts:
"Jaroslav Nad, Slovakia’s defense minister and a gung-ho supporter of Ukraine, said it would have been unthinkable before Russia’s invasion for his country to send large quantities of even basic weapons across its eastern border free of charge, never mind an old but still powerful Soviet-made antiaircraft system.
“But this is the world’s new reality,” he said in an interview in Bratislava, the Slovak capital. “We are a frontline state. We have war on our border and more than 330,000 Ukrainians coming to our country. The paradigm is completely different now.” (Hiding in Plain Sight, a Soviet-Era Air Defense System Arrives in Ukraine https://nyti.ms/3KGEAmL)
As for those who say we are not already in World War III, the defense minister of Slovakia has no doubts:
"Jaroslav Nad, Slovakia’s defense minister and a gung-ho supporter of Ukraine, said it would have been unthinkable before Russia’s invasion for his country to send large quantities of even basic weapons across its eastern border free of charge, never mind an old but still powerful Soviet-made antiaircraft system.
“But this is the world’s new reality,” he said in an interview in Bratislava, the Slovak capital. “We are a frontline state. We have war on our border and more than 330,000 Ukrainians coming to our country. The paradigm is completely different now.” (Hiding in Plain Sight, a Soviet-Era Air Defense System Arrives in Ukraine https://nyti.ms/3KGEAmL)
It's usually ok because many of the announcements (and the corresponding news articles) are actually published multiple days after the actual movement of the materials. The shipments also appear to be very spread out time and location wise and many tend to not look to be military in content (hard to tell one plain semi truck from another). The problems come in when the materials are large and obvious (jet aircraft or large complex air defence systems for example). It would however be interesting just to see how the shipment of 18 155mm towed howitzers (and corresponding 40K rounds of ammo) was camouflaged (the howitzers would be very obvious unless shipped one at a time inside large semi trailers).
I'm expecting news of attempted Russian strikes against some of these shipments, although the Ukrainians are very good at hiding them and quiet about any losses.
Actually the whole concept of covertly shipping military materials from the west into Ukraine (and out of any Russian surveillance) will likely make for fascinating reading at some point in the future.
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
I don't think it matters much, because an announcement like that isn't likely to yield targetable information for the Russians. And given the sixty percent failure rate of Russian long-range standoff weapons I have to question how much of a threat the few remaining available weapons could possibly be.
Also, such announcements can have an enormous PR and even deterrence effects.
The Russians appear to be stripping front-line forces from their frontiers to reinforce the armies in Ukraine. Which they wouldn't do if they were planning a wider war or even thought one was likely. One opportunity for the West to help Ukraine would be to have large military exercises in Finland or near Japan in order to make the Russians a little nervous and hesitant to move those front-line forces to Ukraine.
From what I've seen so far the Russian military basically sucks when it comes to fighting a conventional war. I'd be more concerned about whether or not there are sufficient safeguards in place in Russia to prevent a nuke launch by an unhinged person (Putin) of authority.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
So does every major religion. But money concocts convenient interpretations that fit their slimy purpose and makes millionaires out of pulpit pundits spewing nonsense.
Last edited by a moderator:
kmccune
Well-Known Member
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
My understanding is that it takes the agreement of two people to launch in Russia. And apparently there are people who can even then veto the launch authorization. That's my understanding and I have to wonder how things *really* work.
At this point it is reasonable to assume that there are a bunch of Russian senior officers who are in a full-fledged panic about their nuclear weapons. Given the obvious maintenance shortcomings that have been shown in their conventional forces when they knew they were going to fight a war, it doesn't bear thinking about what corners they cut maintaining their strategic weapons. And we know that their missiles and other standoff weapons have had very poor reliability. That probably won't matter much to us if the ballon goes up, as we are likely to be just as dead if only ten percent of their weapons actually work.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
The Russian rocket cruiser "Moscow" has eventually sunk.
Of course we are not drowning. We are starting a special submersion operation.
Last edited:
Should have an image of Moskva on the bottom with a fish or two swimming by and the title "Black Sea Cruise 2022" or something like that. I'll bet it would make a good T-shirt. And maybe with a thought balloon from one of the fish - Idi na khuy
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
The post-stamp (by Boris Groch) has just won the contest of the Ukrainian Post. I forgot mentioning that.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
How mendacious the Russian propaganda is:
-- The RFS "Moscow" sunk during towing in storm. It was damaged because of ammunition explosion and fire.
Pity they did not mention what was the cause of the ammunition explosion and fire...
-- The RFS "Moscow" sunk during towing in storm. It was damaged because of ammunition explosion and fire.
Pity they did not mention what was the cause of the ammunition explosion and fire...
Well there are some kernels of truth in the Russian story.
It likely did actually sink because of being towed in rough seas. I'll bet they knew it was a lost cause but didn't want the Moskva to go down in full view at the wharf - plus you don't want a cruisier full of fuel and ammunition blowing up at a valuable docking area, so they took a chance on towing it to Sevastopol. Towing any ship in bad weather is dangerous, towing one that's mortally wounded ... well clearly not a good idea.
The ammunition part could also be true ... one of the characteristics of the Moskva are the large anti ship missiles ("ammunition") stored in their launch tubes on the deck. This location makes them quite susceptible to being damaged in an attack. Get a couple of those to cook off in their tubes (so there is energy from the warhead + fuel) and the ship is likely very badly damaged. It also doesn't hurt that the Ukrainian Neptune anti ship missile is one nasty weapon as well, so the damage from the combination could be particularly lethal.
I'm still surprised the Russian state media was so quick to announce the sinking.
I wonder if the Ukrainians can take advantage of the reduced anti air coverage the loss of the Moskva creates?
Mulezen
Well-Known Member
The ship was likely hit by Ukrainian missiles recent news says, also the rest of the war fleet has moved further away from shore. I believe I read the flagship was hit 65km from shore…good shooting from Ukraine’s Neptune missile. Apparently their homegrown hardware is better than the Evil Empire’s
Mulezen
Well-Known Member
CIA director, William Burns, also acknowledged the US is sharing intelligence with Ukraine.
“We have been committed to rapid and effective intelligence sharing with our Ukrainian partners, throughout the fighting and for months beforehand.”
I wondered if such a precision strike had assistance. The ship (one of three) were Russia’s answer to the US’s aircraft carriers.
“We have been committed to rapid and effective intelligence sharing with our Ukrainian partners, throughout the fighting and for months beforehand.”
I wondered if such a precision strike had assistance. The ship (one of three) were Russia’s answer to the US’s aircraft carriers.
Handlebars
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
Indeed, and it seems sure that personell are highly involved in the arena as well, as the steel factory has had 3 very risky failed attempts at rescue.
ChezCheese:)
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Kitsap Co, WA
If it didn't, it should have.
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
In April 2022, the Moskva was renamed the Snake Island Memorial Reef.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
There always is some truth in the news.
I just mention the warship would have not exploded if not Ukrainian missiles shot at her.
Our news here state the loss of the "Moscow" is especially bad for the Russian morale, as this class of the warship is meant to engage enemy's aircraft-carriers and is unimportant for shoreline operations. Nevertheless, Moskva went na khuy and was added to the other icons of that war such as the "Snake Island address" or the tractor.
P.S. Interestingly, the Ukrainian word denoting "a snake" means "a viper" in Polish. Similar languages but different. I bought a casserole at a Ukrainian food-stand yesterday. I and the sales lady could understand each other but I had to speak slowly and distinctly, and also listen intently to what she was saying.
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
Fun fact: the sinking of the Moskva is the largest wartime loss of a surface combatant since WWII. You have to go back to the Falkland's War of 1982 for anything remotely comparable.
I find it remarkable that the second most powerful ship in the world's third largest navy was sunk by a country with effectively no navy. This whole thing is like a chipmunk that kills a grizzly bear.
If the Russians were smart (which they haven't been) they will offer terms now. It will only get worse for them in the coming months.
Correction: I've been informed that the Argentinian General Belgrano was very slightly larger in displacement than the Moskva.
I find it remarkable that the second most powerful ship in the world's third largest navy was sunk by a country with effectively no navy. This whole thing is like a chipmunk that kills a grizzly bear.
If the Russians were smart (which they haven't been) they will offer terms now. It will only get worse for them in the coming months.
Correction: I've been informed that the Argentinian General Belgrano was very slightly larger in displacement than the Moskva.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
