World War III

[rayray]

Well, if you are getting your numbers from an imaginary friend on the internet and I am getting my number from an agency that has been tracking those numbers for over a century the difference of opinion might not be insignificant.

Dude, I was trying to end the discussion on a lighter note.

The point is we’re looking at the same numbers from the same place, but we’re interpreting them differently. If this was an in-person conversation, looking at each other face-to-face, we’d wrap it up in 5 minutes (provided we’re both reasonable people). But, with the limitations of keyboard conversation we’re never going to arrive at agreement, so what’s the point of continuing to discuss it? I’d rather go for a ride.

 

[mclewis1]

Another Russian navy vessel joins the Moskva at the bottom.

Ukraine Claims Harpoon Missile Attack On Russian Navy Ship

Ukraine says that the Russian Navy support ship was hit while attempting to resupply Snake Island, a key strategic outpost in the Black Sea.

www.thedrive.com

Really interesting that there was an anti air system onboard. Not functioning, or did the Harpoon's get through an operational Tor-M2KM SAM system?

Best twitter comment I saw ...
Day 115 of my 3 day war. I lost another warship to a country that doesn't have a navy. I remain a master strategist.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Really interesting that there was an anti air system onboard. Not functioning, or did the Harpoon's get through an operational Tor-M2KM SAM system?

Well, that depends on what you mean by "functioning".

A sea-skimming missile like a Harpoon is going to have a cross section approximately the size of a beach ball when it is flying directly at its target, and under ideal conditions will come over the horizon about 5 miles out. So you have on the order of 30 seconds of engagement time to locate, identify, target, and shoot down something the size of a beach ball.

Note that thirty seconds might be a lot less if the seas were very rough or there was heavy rainfall.

From what we've seen of Russian anti-air technology the ergonomics and sophistication of the tracking software is literally decades behind comparable western equipment. And ergonomics is going to matter a lot if you need to be constantly vigilant for that thirty seconds when you'll really need the whole system to work.

Also, from what we've seen of Russian training and maintenance practices it isn't surprising their terminal air defense systems are also performing poorly.

 

[kmccune]

Monthly numbers aren't likely to tell you much of anything, especially from years that can be charitably described as massive outliers like 2020 and 2021.

Anyways, back to the mindless butchery and slaughter in Ukraine. It is hard for me to imagine why anybody is fighting so hard over a town that is about the same size as Chico, CA or Yakima, WA, is largely destroyed, and where the civilians have already evacuated.

MC-you stand where you live, fighting this determinably makes the enemy lose heart, an aggressor is heard to appease you give a cm the next day they want a meter. I understand from where you are coming from though.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

MC-you stand where you live, fighting this determinably makes the enemy lose heart, an aggressor is heard to appease you give a cm the next day they want a meter. I understand from where you are coming from though.

That explains the Ukrainians, but why are the Russians ripping the heart out of half their army to capture a place that isn't even that strategically valuable? Not that the Ukrainians are complaining, I'm sure...

 

[Gordon71]

Monthly numbers aren't likely to tell you much of anything, especially from years that can be charitably described as massive outliers like 2020 and 2021.

Anyways, back to the mindless butchery and slaughter in Ukraine. It is hard for me to imagine why anybody is fighting so hard over a town that is about the same size as Chico, CA or Yakima, WA, is largely destroyed, and where the civilians have already evacuated.

I expect when they rebuild they want to live in Ukraine not Russia.

 

[kmccune]

That explains the Ukrainians, but why are the Russians ripping the heart out of half their army to capture a place that isn't even that strategically valuable? Not that the Ukrainians are complaining, I'm sure...

Mr P has gone nuts and he is emulating Hitler. I am surprised more of the Regular Russian conscripts are not deserting( I wouldnt want to be fighting my relatives or any of the innocents for that matter) I am hoping Ukraine will come out of this better off than before, they had to fight Stalin before and they do not want a repeat.

 

[Handlebars]

That explains the Ukrainians, but why are the Russians ripping the heart out of half their army to capture a place that isn't even that strategically valuable? Not that the Ukrainians are complaining, I'm sure...

Those in Ukraine aren't remotely near the total of the Russian army. Only a nitwit would believe that. This thread is mainly populated by people who believe impossibly stupid propaganda.

 

[Handlebars]

That explains the Ukrainians, but why are the Russians ripping the heart out of half their army to capture a place that isn't even that strategically valuable? Not that the Ukrainians are complaining, I'm sure...

Are you aware that Ukraine forces just lost a large number of generals, estimates run up to 50 of them, in one missile hit? the amount of nonsense you believe, that is scary.

 

[Pine_marten]

Excellent!, Russia punishes Ukraine for shelling innocent civilians in the DPR.

 

[Handlebars]

Yes, I think it's up to 50 officers, including generals.

 

[Handlebars]

Mr P has gone nuts and he is emulating Hitler. I am surprised more of the Regular Russian conscripts are not deserting( I wouldnt want to be fighting my relatives or any of the innocents for that matter) I am hoping Ukraine will come out of this better off than before, they had to fight Stalin before and they do not want a repeat.

But are they not nazis? So many have swastika tattoos that even a photo of a man presented by Reuters slipped through, and it showed his swastika tattoo. Who do you think is honoring Hitler if not Ukraine forces with their nazi symbols and tattoos of Hitler?

 

[Handlebars]

Super GREENIE moral choice Germany is now set to burn more BROWN coal, the dirtiest of fossil fuels. "Brown" is the new GREENIE energy. Did you think it was not a scam? Everything so 1930's.

 

[indianajo]

That explains the Ukrainians, but why are the Russians ripping the heart out of half their army to capture a place that isn't even that strategically valuable? Not that the Ukrainians are complaining, I'm sure...

Catherine the Great did it, Putin wants his name in a history book. Trouble is, Democrats fight like wildcats, conscripts fight like sloths. With all the rape & civilian slaughter, some monkeys in the troops too.
Ukraine has grain, Russia has hungry mouths. Has been that way for 400 years. Also Ukraine has ports on the Black Sea, which Russia really needs. They should have just bought Crimea, they have the cash. Destroying all the inhabitants and leveling all the housing, utilities, schools, hospitals, community centers, just makes room for more serfs. More people to dance to the instructions of "presidents" like Viktor_Yanukovych the last annoited czarette.
Thought during my service in the cold war, the Russians were big pansies. Kruschchev & Kosygen weren't stupid enough to try us. They let the Vietnamese & Cubans & Nicaraguans do their dirty work. Putin is right up there on the history list with Ivan the Terrible.

 

[Mulezen]

Read This: "Russia Is Pulling Off a Massive Art Heist in Ukraine"
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia-is-pulling-off-a-massive-art-heist-in-ukraine?via=ios
Opening…”
The looting of art at times of war dates back millennia, with the Greeks and Romans among the worst perpetrators. Museums and private collections around the world are filled with looted art that changed hands during conflicts. During World War II, a secret Allied army known as the “Monuments Men” worked to protect European treasures from being pilfered by invading armies—with mixed success. Hitler’s stolen treasures are still being discovered across Germany. Millions of stolen pieces may never be found.

So far there are no specially trained armies in Ukraine to protect treasures from the precision Russian art thieves working under the cover of war to empty museums and destroy important pieces of Ukraine’s cultural heritage. There are just brave museum curators in regions where the Russians have seized control doing everything they can to hide and fortify their art and antiquities, using supplies smuggled in from the West to help them crate up paintings and sandbag statues.

Since Russia began its invasion in February, 250 cultural institutions have been targeted by Russian munitions. Thousands of important museums pieces have been destroyed during the bombing of Mariupol and elsewhere. In Melitopol, Scythian gold artifacts worth millions that date back to the fourth century B.C. were stolen from crates the museum had hidden them in.

 

[Pine_marten]

Read This: "Russia Is Pulling Off a Massive Art Heist in Ukraine"
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia-is-pulling-off-a-massive-art-heist-in-ukraine?via=ios
Opening…”
The looting of art at times of war dates back millennia, with the Greeks and Romans among the worst perpetrators. Museums and private collections around the world are filled with looted art that changed hands during conflicts. During World War II, a secret Allied army known as the “Monuments Men” worked to protect European treasures from being pilfered by invading armies—with mixed success. Hitler’s stolen treasures are still being discovered across Germany. Millions of stolen pieces may never be found.

So far there are no specially trained armies in Ukraine to protect treasures from the precision Russian art thieves working under the cover of war to empty museums and destroy important pieces of Ukraine’s cultural heritage. There are just brave museum curators in regions where the Russians have seized control doing everything they can to hide and fortify their art and antiquities, using supplies smuggled in from the West to help them crate up paintings and sandbag statues.

Since Russia began its invasion in February, 250 cultural institutions have been targeted by Russian munitions. Thousands of important museums pieces have been destroyed during the bombing of Mariupol and elsewhere. In Melitopol, Scythian gold artifacts worth millions that date back to the fourth century B.C. were stolen from crates the museum had hidden them in.

Tell us about the golden showers too!

 

[Handlebars]

Read This: "Russia Is Pulling Off a Massive Art Heist in Ukraine"
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia-is-pulling-off-a-massive-art-heist-in-ukraine?via=ios
Opening…”
The looting of art at times of war dates back millennia, with the Greeks and Romans among the worst perpetrators. Museums and private collections around the world are filled with looted art that changed hands during conflicts. During World War II, a secret Allied army known as the “Monuments Men” worked to protect European treasures from being pilfered by invading armies—with mixed success. Hitler’s stolen treasures are still being discovered across Germany. Millions of stolen pieces may never be found.

So far there are no specially trained armies in Ukraine to protect treasures from the precision Russian art thieves working under the cover of war to empty museums and destroy important pieces of Ukraine’s cultural heritage. There are just brave museum curators in regions where the Russians have seized control doing everything they can to hide and fortify their art and antiquities, using supplies smuggled in from the West to help them crate up paintings and sandbag statues.

Since Russia began its invasion in February, 250 cultural institutions have been targeted by Russian munitions. Thousands of important museums pieces have been destroyed during the bombing of Mariupol and elsewhere. In Melitopol, Scythian gold artifacts worth millions that date back to the fourth century B.C. were stolen from crates the museum had hidden them in.

Now some of that I believe, even if it is in the fake news The Daily Beast. Since all things Russian are being cancelled everywhere in a hate frenzy, from literature to musical arrangements to statues, Russian artifacts would belong to Russia if only to be safe from the maniacs

 

[rayray]

Now some of that I believe, even if it is in the fake news The Daily Beast. Since all things Russian are being cancelled everywhere in a hate frenzy, from literature to musical arrangements to statues, Russian artifacts would belong to Russia if only to be safe from the maniacs

I’m no fan of either of the primary parties to this war, and I do realize there is plenty of propaganda being disseminated by both. What I don’t understand is why people claim to be exposing the truth, while actually further disseminating said propaganda.

Probably silly of me to wonder, but are we on this forum reading crap directly from those propagandists?

 

[tomjasz]

I’m no fan of either of the primary parties to this war, and I do realize there is plenty of propaganda being disseminated by both. What I don’t understand is why people claim to be exposing the truth, while actually further disseminating said propaganda.

Probably silly of me to wonder, but are we on this forum reading crap directly from those propagandists?

Welcome to Handlefarts world. Many just choose the ignore option. It makes it a very different thread.

 

[Handlebars]

I’m no fan of either of the primary parties to this war, and I do realize there is plenty of propaganda being disseminated by both. What I don’t understand is why people claim to be exposing the truth, while actually further disseminating said propaganda.

Probably silly of me to wonder, but are we on this forum reading crap directly from those propagandists?

An interesting question, indeed. What popped up on consideration was the story on a title change for a Degas artpiece. Claimed to be Ukrainian girls, rather than Russian, supposedly identified by the color of ribbons in the hair. The gallery photo shows different coloration than I see by google search and there seems to be quite a few different iterations of the work as well... the point of interest to me, though, is not where the women were from, but who named the artwork?
The news articles present it in a way that leads as if the gallery named it wrongly and now has fixed their own error.

Critics have resurfaced allegations that many of the world’s biggest institutions have not properly contended with Ukrainian art amid Russian’s invasion of the country, which has claimed dozens of cultural landmarks.

Last month, historian Olesya Khromeychuk, the director of the Ukrainian Institute in London, wrote in the German magazine Der Spiegel, “Every trip to a gallery or museum in London with exhibits on art or cinema from the USSR reveals deliberate or just lazy misinterpretation of the region as one endless Russia; much like the current president of the Russian Federation would like to see it.

“In a rare occasion when a Ukrainian is not presented as Russian,” she continued, “he or she might be presented as ‘Ukrainian-born,’ as was the case with the film director, Oleksandr Dovzhenko, in one of the major exhibitions on revolutionary art in London.”

Two weeks ago, Tanya Kolotusha, a Ukrainian living in London, called out the National Gallery on Instagram for mislabeling Degas’ drawing, which was created around 1899 and acquired by the institution in 1998.

“Should we wait for Ukraine to win the war before starting a grand change on the cultural front,” Kolotusha wrote. The gallery responded a week later that the label had been updated.

Degas’ drawing, which was created around 1899 and acquired by the institution in 1998.

Maybe the artpiece had no name before the gallery acquired it in 1998.

In images search there are a good number of images of Degas' sketches named "Russian dancers".

The gallery responded a week later that the label had been updated.

Are we now, for political reasons or, say, for scientific or historical accuracy, going to be changing the historical names or even names that artists gave their works.... ? Just checking. If it's that, perhaps we need to remove all past references regarding the bad name. Just to avoid any confusion, you know; things should be nice ...and...tidy.