Hello, my wife has arthritis in her right knee and is unable to bend it enough to pedal.. I bought her a Del Sol model: Shoreliner I/O mode 2 (Haro bikes).. To get the bike into throttle mode only , she has 2 options: 1) turn the crank a few turns so the hall effect ,at the crank, will activate the thumb throttle and she would be able to then operate on throttle only. We hoped her knee would bend enough to do that but not even close.... 2) uses her feet to put her bike in motion and get hall effects in 350watt Bafang hub motor to engage thumb throttle for full throttle operation... She can only get the bike up to approx 3mph which is not fast enough, especially on slight up hill.... So, during Xmas ,to ride around town and see xmas lights with family , I had to get behind and give her bike a push to 4mph and then her throttle would operate.... Her computer controller does not allow full throttle operation like others allow... So, I was think of putting a momentary button by thumb throttle. When held pushed in, it will send a low voltage signal (3volts) to the output pin of the crank hall effect sensor and hopefully that will put it into pedal assist and start the motor. Then, she'll be able to transition to the thrumb throttle... Do you gents see any problems with doing that - like, does signal have to be pulsed or is it digital and needs a specific voltage,etc...? I thought about new controller but it looks like I'll need to cut all the Uart plugs , hard wire everything and hope new controller fits..I hate to do that but if that's my only choice....... I appreciate any help or suggestions..
Wife , ebike and arthritis..
- Thread starter rc12ls
- Start date
indianajo
Well-Known Member
You could buy another crank sensor and strap it to the handlebar. Buy one with a compatible plug on ebay or amazon, and change the plugs at the sensor. Strap a stick with 4 small magnets in a row to her non-throttle hand. She wipes the stick past the sensor, the throttle is enabled. I suggest strap for sensor be a tye-wrap and the strap on her hand be velcro. She will have to do the stick motion at every stop sign or traffic light, probably.
The replacement controllers I buy on ebay do not even have a PAS sensor input. Throtlle only. Buy one with compatible plugs if available, and save the picture of the connector labels with screen shot at time of purchase. They arrive in the mail with no labels on the connectors but chinese. The scooter (I presume) controllers I buy always rotate backwards. I swap two motor phase plugs and two hall effect pins at installation to avoid having to use the "intellegence" plug every time I disconnect the battery. Also the scooter controllers require a "door switch" connection to operate. + battery voltage at the door switch input. I pick up battery + from the alarm power connector and run it through 1kohm resistor and a toggle switch to the door switch input. I install the toggle switch in a used pill bottle under the seat, for an ignition switch.
The replacement controllers I buy on ebay do not even have a PAS sensor input. Throtlle only. Buy one with compatible plugs if available, and save the picture of the connector labels with screen shot at time of purchase. They arrive in the mail with no labels on the connectors but chinese. The scooter (I presume) controllers I buy always rotate backwards. I swap two motor phase plugs and two hall effect pins at installation to avoid having to use the "intellegence" plug every time I disconnect the battery. Also the scooter controllers require a "door switch" connection to operate. + battery voltage at the door switch input. I pick up battery + from the alarm power connector and run it through 1kohm resistor and a toggle switch to the door switch input. I install the toggle switch in a used pill bottle under the seat, for an ignition switch.
Last edited:
If you can, would you please send me a link to the controller you've purchased... Thank you
harryS
Well-Known Member
Good idea, but pedal/crank sensors on these bikes send out a train of pulses, so a steady DC voltage won't work, I don't think it's worth it to gut a new bike and put in a different controller.. Better to buy something that works the way you want
How about shifting to lowest gear, and a half rotation with the good leg will get her going?
.
How about shifting to lowest gear, and a half rotation with the good leg will get her going?
.
My ebike will not work with the throttle in 0 PAS, I have to have it in 1-5 PAS for the throttle to operate from a dead start. I think there is a way to change it in the display advanced settings but it doesn't bother me enough to try it. Its set that way from the factory for safety reasons from what I was told.
Did you try reaching out to the manufacturer to see if there is a setting change, allowing throttle from a dead stop?
I agree with the lowest gear for getting moving, if that's whats required.
Did you try reaching out to the manufacturer to see if there is a setting change, allowing throttle from a dead stop?
I agree with the lowest gear for getting moving, if that's whats required.
6zfshdb
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Northeast Pennsylvania
Before you do any serious mods to a new bike and likely void the warranty, talk to a dealer about a trade. All the throttled bikes I've tested, allow use of the throttle from a dead start in PAS 1 thru 5. That is the biggest reason to have a throttle in the first place. IMO, you'll be happier in the long run if you go that route.
Yes, it will cost $$ but what is your time worth? How much are you going to spend on parts that may or may not work? I'm a serious DIY'er but truth be told, I'd much rather spend my time riding than working on the bike.
Just my 2 cents.
Yes, it will cost $$ but what is your time worth? How much are you going to spend on parts that may or may not work? I'm a serious DIY'er but truth be told, I'd much rather spend my time riding than working on the bike.
Just my 2 cents.
Jeremy McCreary
Bought it anyway
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
Exactly how my throttle works — and IMO, how a throttle worth its keep SHOULD work.
Hard to believe that an engineer would design an ebike throttle that's only enabled when pedal rotation is detected. Worth checking the display for a setting that might put an end to this silly behavior.
Finally, I applaud the OP for trying to get his wife a proper throttle. It will make a huge positive contribution to her cycling experience in many surprising ways that have nothing to do with getting out of pedaling.
indianajo
Well-Known Member
Here is an ebay controller today with connectors that would fit my bike. https://www.ebay.com/itm/404480222683?hash=item5e2ce665db:g:erwAAOSw6TBk6Gqx&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAA0EX9MjR0LNpRpFy48u1vyJlof+ZrBtkKXc/tY2yHpK6Pnh3gt0ADUjS0MjY/hWYsb/tScICBsB1crstJsZJZT1gpjzn9DJJXku6P2BHj7b+c0uW8SWMNJEkvfEy/JRSEyRo8vWoYShDeFmaOe2VLxUq1SPvuyVDe931+Jn04MOOUCd0JIrhOT6+yybj0OrGILjpOvzm9uMl10cbvoiRXqcEtlSHEIVx3E94PMb/LzjAOMez/j+4JQbNVMTodRN/L09JylPTvp4bx42UWBDKtIbc=|tkp:Bk9SR9zg25ucYw These are a bit obsolete, but the white hall effect sensor connector allows the pins to be popped out with a pick and put back in a different order.If you can, would you please send me a link to the controller you've purchased... Thank you
Harrys advice is usually helpful, but post #4 he must be visiting a different planet today. A replacement PAS pickup swiped with 4 or more magnets does not put out a dc voltage. It puts out a series of pulses. My 2018 ebikeling controller I used until 2022, it would start by turning the crank forwards or backwards. I understand today controllers can tell if you are cranking backwards and not start. I do not know how they do that. I envision a popsicle stick with 4 refrigerator magnets glued to it.
Thx everyone for your input... That ad is false as throttle is inactive at a stationary position..The bike either needs to be already moving over 4mph or pedal needs to move at least a half rotation.. We purchased the bike from a corner bike shop for $800 (very good deal) and store owner informed us of the features and the computer being very simple and not allowing immediate throttle (that was my main question)... I did YouTube for advanced features on this model (DP c13 Uart) and none can activate for instant throttle..Because of the great price and wanting to surprise my wife for that night's Xmas light adventure, I made the mistake of assuming my wife would be able to ,at least, get the bike into motion - my mistake..
...The 1 leg method may work and we're going out today to try and discover a method she hopefully can perform before attempting any modifications.. To make things simple and safer , for her, a simple push of a thumb throttle would be the way to go.... ThxIndianaJo for the link.. That is the exact controller I have bookmarked cus the size will fit into the area already given to the original controller - you squashed any doubt about buying that one if I decide to retrofit .
... Thx again everyone..
...The 1 leg method may work and we're going out today to try and discover a method she hopefully can perform before attempting any modifications.. To make things simple and safer , for her, a simple push of a thumb throttle would be the way to go.... ThxIndianaJo for the link.. That is the exact controller I have bookmarked cus the size will fit into the area already given to the original controller - you squashed any doubt about buying that one if I decide to retrofit .... Thx again everyone.. One more thing.. it's curious how the hall effort is able to distinguish rotation direction... I tested it. It does not engage throttle in reverse rotation... Also, the hall sensor is only permitting a signal to transmit if the megnets crossing its path , are alternating poles.. The small round magnets, on crank disc, are mounted in a fashion of alternating poles.. I was able to test this with an external magnet... The round magnets ,on disc, would either repel or attract depending on which pole ,of the external magnet, i placed near them.
harryS
Well-Known Member
That's a thought. The PAS sensor is intended to work only in the forward direction. The digital pulses vary when spinning backwards. It depends on the model of the sensor, but on some of my ebikes (I've converted over a dozen), I have installed them accidentally backwards with the result of the PAS only working when spinning backwards. It's a result of the N/S polarity of the magnetic field and the direction that it approaches the sensor,
If it has a separate magnet disk, pull off the pedal and flip the disk around. You might get lucky, On a one piece unit, put it on the other side of the crank so it's spinning forward when you pedal backwards. You'll need a crank puller, a $10 tool, to remove the pedal arms. Plenty of youtube videos to explain how to use them. Even the $5 units work OK, but it's worth it toi pay 2x-3X.. I hope this works for you.
Oh, and I will second the controller that Indiana Jo posted. I have one. Used it for a time. I switched to a bigger one, but it will be OK for cruising at bike speeds.
.
If it has a separate magnet disk, pull off the pedal and flip the disk around. You might get lucky, On a one piece unit, put it on the other side of the crank so it's spinning forward when you pedal backwards. You'll need a crank puller, a $10 tool, to remove the pedal arms. Plenty of youtube videos to explain how to use them. Even the $5 units work OK, but it's worth it toi pay 2x-3X.. I hope this works for you.
Oh, and I will second the controller that Indiana Jo posted. I have one. Used it for a time. I switched to a bigger one, but it will be OK for cruising at bike speeds.
.
I see. That makes complete sense... The sensor is long as it may have two hall effects sensors in one case....?. .- there is also a small LED in the corner of the sensor case.. Depending on which hall is activated first, will create a digital go or no go signal ??.. That may be why the red LED lights up when the rotation is correct and then the thumb trigger is activated...very cool..
.. Electronics are ingenious.
... Thx for confirming that eBay controller - we mainly travel on fairly flat city streets going very slowly. She doesn't need much power. .
.. Electronics are ingenious.... Thx for confirming that eBay controller - we mainly travel on fairly flat city streets going very slowly. She doesn't need much power. .
Jeremy McCreary
Bought it anyway
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
The many owner reports on EBR make it clear that some thumb throttles are better implemented than others. Ditto for both cadence- and torque-sensing assist schemes.Thx everyone for your input... That ad is false as throttle is inactive at a stationary position..The bike either needs to be already moving over 4mph or pedal needs to move at least a half rotation.. We purchased the bike from a corner bike shop for $800 (very good deal) and store owner informed us of the features and the computer being very simple and not allowing immediate throttle (that was my main question)... I did YouTube for advanced features on this model (DP c13 Uart) and none can activate for instant throttle..Because of the great price and wanting to surprise my wife for that night's Xmas light adventure, I made the mistake of assuming my wife would be able to ,at least, get the bike into motion - my mistake..
Very hard for ebike buyers to know exactly what they're getting without a thorough test ride. And many won't even know what to watch for or ask about till its too late.
As we're seeing in this thread, details matter in throttle implementations. But you never see them spelled out in ads or product pages. Sales people may be in the dark as well.
I'm sure laws are the basis for most decision making of mass production bikes as many states implement laws as to not clash with fully motorized bicycles ( a.k.a. motorcycle) causing the rearing ugly head of litigation.. Mode 2 in California, I'm assuming, is the creation of a loop hole to circumvent the need to register our electric bikes.. Us modifying them to work like a motorcycle has to be expected but who's going hunt those bicyclist down.. My old wife will give law enforcement the back end of her purse - I've felt that end on my head - aint no joke...
6zfshdb
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Northeast Pennsylvania
I suppose it's possible but If this were true, why not just ban throttles completely?I'm sure laws are the basis for most decision making of mass production bikes as many states implement laws as to not clash with fully motorized bicycles ( a.k.a. motorcycle) causing the rearing ugly head of litigation.. Mode 2 in California, I'm assuming, is the creation of a loop hole to circumvent the need to register our electric bikes.. Us modifying them to work like a motorcycle has to be expected but who's going hunt those bicyclist down.. My old wife will give law enforcement the back end of her purse - I've felt that end on my head - aint no joke...
Getting started on a hill or crossing a busy intersection from a dead stop are two of the biggest reasons to have a throttle. Most of the throttle related complaints I know about involve riders tooling along without pedaling, and likely going too fast for conditions. A throttle that kicks in at 3mph would not do anything to eliminate these complaints.
It would make more sense to require a throttle to kick out at 3mph, not kick in.
harryS
Well-Known Member
By the way. does the bike support walk mode. It's a fairly common feature. Every controller I've owned does it. It takes around 3 seconds to start, so might be constraining at a stop light where we bikers have to seize the crosswalks. It's 6 km/hr so may not be fast enough to stabilize a bike, but something to try ,,,,
indianajo
Well-Known Member
There are no sidewalks on 90% of the roads I ride. The alternative of an electric wheelchair is totally useless, besides being slower than a caterpillar. Wheelchairs cannot even power through the ditches on the street where I live, nor the ones the city dug in my yard. I have okay mobility 350 days a year, but cannot effectively walk the others. Twisting my knee ruins walking for a week. The US Army ruined my knees 73-83. No cartilage left and bone spurs besides. If throttles are banned from electric bicycles, the replacement will be a dually pickup truck. Screw the environment, I need groceries, money, medical care sometimes. I rent U-haul several days a year, which I ride to pick up on the bicycle. The city bus stop is 5 blocks from my house through grassy muddy ditches. It takes average 1.5 hours to get to doctor's office by bus, which I can ride to on the bike in 15 minutes. Interval for busses is 70 minutes, and the connections are often missed. I missed the bus to the airport 12/20 because it came 7 minutes early.
Per the throttle across the road scenario, each trip to my summer camp I cross a 6 lane highway twice at lights. The one 12 miles out never turns green for bicycles, not even a 94 lb one. When the light turns green for me, the cross traffic stops - sometimes. Often, not. illegal 1000 w hub drive will power me across the 6 lanes in less than 20 seconds. **** industry group that created the 750 w limit 41 legislatures have passed. I could buy a 2000 w DD motor for "off road" use anywhere, but the acceleration of those is pitiful until they reach 10 mph. I owned a 1000 watt DD motor, parked it after 2 months. I have not seen a 1000 w geared hub for sale in the US in 3 years.
Last edited:
Jeremy McCreary
Bought it anyway
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
Sorry, I don't follow. I've ridden a total of 7 different ebikes, all hub-drives, starting in September, 2022. They came off 7 different showroom floors in SoCal, and all had throttles enabled at zero crank speed. What are the odds that all 7 dealers were breaking the law?
Only got 20-30 minute test rides on the first five. Don't recall if any of them tied max throttle power to assist level, as some do. That's also a bad design, as it limits the single most useful thing a throttle can do — deliver instant bursts of speed or torque at any crank or wheel speed (up to 20 mph in my case) without changing gears or assist level. A very valuable safety feature in traffic, but the utility goes far beyond that.
My 2023 Surface 604 V Rook and my neighbor's 2023 Aventon Level.2 both give progressive throttle up to full motor power at all non-zero assist levels — with or without pedal rotation — at all speeds up to 20 mph. Didn't know it when I bought the Rook, but that turns out to be throttle design at its best. Add torque-sensing assist, and you have an extremely versatile power delivery system.
Last edited:
Similar threads
