Wife , ebike and arthritis..

[6zfshdb]

There are no sidewalks on 90% of the roads I ride. The alternative of an electric wheelchair is totally useless, besides being slower than a caterpillar. Wheelchairs cannot even power through the ditches on the street where I live, nor the ones the city dug in my yard. I have okay mobility 350 days a year, but cannot effectively walk the others. Twisting my knee ruins walking for a week. The US Army ruined my knees 73-83. No cartilage left and bone spurs besides. If throttles are banned from electric bicycles, the replacement will be a dually pickup truck. Screw the environment, I need groceries, money, medical care sometimes. I rent U-haul several days a year, which I ride to pick up on the bicycle. The city bus stop is 5 blocks from my house through grassy muddy ditches. It takes average 1.5 hours to get to doctor's office by bus, which I can ride to on the bike in 15 minutes. Interval for busses is 70 minutes, and the connections are often missed. I missed the bus to the airport 12/20 because it came 7 minutes early.
Per the throttle across the road scenario, each trip to my summer camp I cross a 6 lane highway twice at lights. The one 12 miles out never turns green for bicycles, not even a 94 lb one. When the light turns green for me, the cross traffic stops - sometimes. Often, not. illegal 1000 w hub drive will power me across the 6 lanes in less than 20 seconds. **** industry group that created the 750 w limit 41 legislatures have passed. I could buy a 2000 w DD motor for "off road" use anywhere, but the acceleration of those is pitiful until they reach 10 mph. I owned a 1000 watt DD motor, parked it after 2 months. I have not seen a 1000 w geared hub for sale in the US in 3 years.

Please don't misunderstand. I wasn't suggesting that throttles be banned. I was just pointing out that such a ban would be simpler than dictating impractical ways they can be used. The OP's idea that there was a regulation prohibiting throttle use below a certain speed makes no sense. IMO, being able to use a throttle from a dead stop is it's most valuable function.

For me, a throttle makes the difference between riding and not riding at all.

 

[sc00ter]

I recall some ebikes doing throttle activation being restricted for safety reasons. Some motion had to be detected before the throttle would activate. Early electric kick scooters did the same thing, you had to do the initial kick for the scooter to detect motion before the throttle would turn on. Not many of these throttle restricted style escooters sell on a public level, but I think most all of the rental share scooters still employ this throttle style.

Like I mentioned before, my Xpedition throttle won't engage in zero PAS, but works as intended in any numbered PAS level. I think it can be changed in the menu but I really don't care as I never leave that tank in PAS zero! I'll try the XP 3.0 when I'm in the garage next as I don't recall ever trying it in PAS zero with the throttle.

If Haro allowed that weird throttle trait to go into production then shame on them. That seems very unsafe from my perspective. Throttle needs to be active to safely start on a incline, clear an intersection, start with a heavy load or kid on the back or you just can't pedal for whatever reason. Again, strange choice for a company who's been into bicycles for a long time and should know their market and how the bicycle will be used.

 

[rc12ls]

My thoughts on class 2 ebikes where assumptions as the bike shop , in our town , is the only local shop.. The owner told me class 2 bikes need momentum before throttle engagement.. Looking back, he may have ment his Haro class 2 ebikes and I assumed all class 2 ebikes where the same..So , I made assumption as to why... If you go back and read my post , you will see I stated that I was assuming....

Sorry, I don't follow. I've ridden a total of 7 different ebikes, all hub-drives, starting in September, 2022. They came off 7 different showroom floors in SoCal, and all had throttles enabled at zero crank speed. What are the odds that all 7 dealers were breaking the law?

Only got 20-30 minute test rides on the first five. Don't recall if any of them tied max throttle power to assist level, as some do. That's also a bad design, as it limits the single most useful thing a throttle can do — deliver instant bursts of speed ot torque at any crank or wheel speed without changing gears or assist level. A very valuable safety feature in traffic, but the utility goes far beyond that.

My 2023 Surface 604 V Rook and my neighbor's 2023 Aventon Level.2 both give progressive throttle up to full motor power at all non-zero assist levels — with or without pedal rotation — at all speeds up to 20 mph. Didn't know it when I bought the Rook, but that turns out to be throttle design at its best. Add torque-sensing assist, and you have an extremely versatile power delivery system.

My thoughts on class 2 ebikes where assumptions as the bike shop , in our town , is the only local shop.. The owner told me class 2 bikes need momentum before throttle engagement.. Looking back, he may have ment his Haro class 2 ebikes- I then assumed all class 2 ebikes where the same..So , I made assumption as to why... If you go back and read my post , you will see I stated that I was assuming....

 

[rc12ls]

My wife had a hard time trying different methods to get bike into fast enough motion.. If itsya slight uphill, forget it....I ordered the controller recommended through ebay and it will be here on Friday... I watched some YouTube videos and its very straightforward wiring.. Thxs everyone for your help...

 

[6zfshdb]

My wife had a hard time trying different methods to get bike into fast enough motion.. If itsya slight uphill, forget it....I ordered the controller recommended through ebay and it will be here on Friday... I watched some YouTube videos and its very straightforward wiring.. Thxs everyone for your help...

Please post the results of your controller swap. The main issue I have with a swap is connecting the hub motor phase wires correctly.

 

[rc12ls]

I'll definitely post some pics of retrofit ... I'd like to get some feedback on the screenshot I attached... 1st off you'll notice the red wire is called ,"hall sensor" when , in fact, its the battery positive... What I'm concerned about is my throttle connection - you'll notice 2 plugs and one is marked , "1:1 acceleration" and the other ,"speed throttle".. I'm assuming (again, that word assuming ) the, "speed throttle" is where I'll connect the handle bar thumb throttle to but does anyone have an idea what's a ,"1:1 acceleration" ??? .... ... Maybe speed control ???

 

[indianajo]

That "1:1 accelerator" looks like an input to my controller that I never figured out what it did. Mine was labeled "3 speed" so I tried putting a center off toggle switch that connected the +5 v to the other two one at a time. Did nothing to the speed of response. Would be nice if it was a PAS sensor pickup, but mine was not. I last year put that controller in storage because it was 500 w and would stop after 10 seconds if I tried to drive the repaired Mac12t 1000 w motor. Now using a "2000 w" controller.

 

[6zfshdb]

does anyone have an idea what's a ,"1:1 acceleration" ??? .... ... Maybe speed control ???

Cadence or torque sensor perhaps?

The multi pin connector labeled "hall sensor" may be one or the other but not both?

 

[harryS]

As mentioned, I've got essentially the same controlelr.

The "intelligent identification" is self learning, which makes the exact connection of thick phase wires and thin sensor wires less of a worry, If your present bike has the same 2x3 white Hall sensor connector going to the motor, just make sure the wires align by color, They should be in the proper spots already. If no connector, you can wire directly by color. Connect the thin blue, green, and yellow to their counterparts. Red and black are +5V power and this must be correct. If both sides have a white, that's the speed signal,

The thick blue, green, and yellow are also wired by color. The first time the controller is powered up, the two ID-wires must be connected, with the motor free to turn. If self-learning is working, it will spin the motor in the proper connection, If it does not, then repeat the power up til it does. Then unplug the two ID wires. The controller should have figured out the signal sequence and will remember it unless it is powered up again with the ID wires connected again.

Speed Throttle, Red-white-black should be throttle. The other three pin connector called 1:1 will be PAS sens.

 

[rc12ls]

On a YouTube video, poster used a jumper wire on that 3 speed plug as you did.. He had a motor mounted on his work bench and the rpm increase of the motor was very minimal - almost not conceivable without the rpm laser detector that he used.... My wife's Controller is sitting on our porch as I text...I'll post any discoveries although, it sounds like you've moved onto more horsepower ... Thank you again... If all my wife has to do is move her thumb to go, she'll be one happy camper !!!!

 

[rc12ls]

Ok, got it.. 1:1 is pas senor.. I'll make sure to use that intell correctly so my wife does not dart off in reverse the1st time she tries it !!!!

 

[rc12ls]

I'll definitely will be cutting wires as the hall sensors, brakes and throttle are Uart round connectors ..The phase wires ,from the motor and near the controller, are individual male and female plugs - I plan to also cut those and hard solder them.. There is an Uart plug near the wheel bolts ,to the motor, I'll leave alone for changing a flat....

 

[harryS]

Unless it is a gearless direct drive motor (unlikely for 250W) , they cannot spin in reverse because the gears/clutch prevent that, What you will hear is the whine of the motor spinning backwards . Some learning controllers spin continuously when in learn mode. Others just bump the wheel a few turns,

You can probe the three pins on the throttle and PAS connector to verify. Referencing black as ground, the throttle will show only voltage on one lead, about 4.5 volts on power, and 0V on the input with a multimeter. The PAS will show voltage on both leads relative to ground, about 4.5V on the power lead and slightly higher on the signal lead. At least that's how it is on an old KT controller.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I'll make sure to use that intell correctly so my wife does not dart off in reverse the1st time she tries it !!!!

Not so fast. There are times in a marriage when that use of the motor could be beneficial. While you're fiddling, put it on a remote on your handlebar.

 

[indianajo]

I'll definitely will be cutting wires as the hall sensors, brakes and throttle are Uart round connectors ..The phase wires ,from the motor and near the controller, are individual male and female plugs - I plan to also cut those and hard solder them.. There is an Uart plug near the wheel bolts ,to the motor, I'll leave alone for changing a flat....

I warned you to buy a controller with the same connectors as your old controller. Spliced wires outside of enclosures with strain relief in & out are failure points. It might be more reliable to buy sensors and controls with the plugs that match the new controller. Throttles were about $10 and PAS pickups about 8 on ebay. I had trouble buying brake handles with N-O switches without buying an attached motor controller and complete setup. My original 2018 ebikeling brake handles were N-C switch, which apparently are as obsolete as the dodo bird. I did finally buy a complete setup with new brake handles in 2023 with a MAC11t motor, which was a rear motor and would have unbalanced the bike compared with the Mac12t front motor I repaired that year. Rear motors require a 7 speed freewheel, and I was never able to buy one with 34 tooth to 14 tooth sprockets. 28 tooth max. Cataloged but never in stock east of the south China sea.
That 6 pin white connector has been Hall effect sensors on 6 of the controllers I have owned. Intelligence rotation swapping is fine if you never take the battery off. If you do, every time you have to do it again. I just swap wires to change rotation permanently. All controllers without PAS input have rotated backwards. I suppose that is normal for scooters they are sold for. Some controllers rotate backwards one way (into the clutch) and moan and vibrate with phase wires changed to rotate forwards. Those you have to swap a pair of hall effect wires to stop the moaning and make it run forwards. I push the pins out with a pick and bend the tangs back to engage again when I put them back in again.

 

[rc12ls]

So, I was able to finish the retro fit last night.. Thx IndianaJo, that controller is awesome - way more power than my wife needs.. She took the bike to a church parking lot today ,with my son and had a blast. - im at work.. My son actually turned down the PAS and it smoothed out the take-off power... She's loving it !!.. So after work on Friday, we're all going for a ride. ... 1st thing, Uart is a communication protocol - i think that means software and not the type of plugs I have.. Anyway, I was able to use the cable already installed in the bike for brake moror kill and thumb throttle signal.. i just ran the new cable from new computer display.. I just matched the hall wires as all the colors where the same, including the phase wires... The motor ran backwards and I used the intelligence wire to reverse rotation. Viola , magic !!!!!... my wife's The Little o Lady from Pasadena !!.. ...