Why are SurRons so cheap?

[Cyklefanatic]

Surron X Bike (Black Edition)

We are the USA distributor of this fast and fun dirt ebike.... buy it from the source! We have the newest bikes at the best price.

lunacycle.com

Or maybe the real question is why are ebikes so expensive? Luna cycle is selling SurRon electric motorbikes for $3,400. That includes a massive battery, powerful motor, long travel front and rear suspension, 4 piston disc brakes, wide knobby tires, a solid frame and much more. Ebikes pale in comparison at that price point with many ebikes costing thousands more.
I think that the reason SurRons are so cheap is because most bike manufacturers only design the frame and buy everything else from all the same usual suspects. There is very little engineering going on and everything goes through several rounds of mark ups before it reaches the consumer.
What we need is an ebike manufacturer willing to design almost the whole bike, motor, frame, brakes, electronics and suspension. It works for motorcycles so why not bikes?
Honda didn’t develop its brand by designing only the frame and buying everything else. Honda took pride in its engineering, it’s motors, it’s transmissions, it’s suspension and good value for money. We are all paying a high price for the current boutique nature of the ebike industry.
it will take deep pockets, good engineering and persistence but the first company to take that approach will crush the competition.
As soon as a SurRon comes along and rethinks the business model for ebikes everyone else will disappear and we consumers will get better cheaper bikes.

 

[fooferdoggie]

it does not have to be light thats a huge cost savings. who knows the quality of the batteries and such either.

 

[smorgasbord]

Yeah, as @fooferdoggie says, low weight is expensive. The Sur-Ron is like 110 lbs.
Looking at SRAM's Eagle line can be instructive. See this article and this video for instance. The components are all interchangeable (I have an NX shifter, GX derailleur, GX cassette, and X01 chain on my wife's bike right now) between versions. There's even a newer, cheaper SX version now. For things like cassettes, weight is the primary differentiator. Same on the shifter, although the X01 adds an adjustable lever. Strong and heavy is easy - strong and light is hard.

The Sur-Ron also goes cheap where they don't think it makes a difference. Like a cable-operated throttle - in the 21st century, really? Or the use of some bicycle-grade components in what is really a small electric motorcycle.

Finally, the Sur-Ron isn't street legal. Lights, mirrors, turn signals, etc., all add up, too.

 

[FlatSix911]

Surron X Bike (Black Edition)

We are the USA distributor of this fast and fun dirt ebike.... buy it from the source! We have the newest bikes at the best price.

lunacycle.com

Or maybe the real question is why are ebikes so expensive? Luna cycle is selling SurRon electric motorbikes for $3,400. That includes a massive battery, powerful motor, long travel front and rear suspension, 4 piston disc brakes, wide knobby tires, a solid frame and much more. Ebikes pale in comparison at that price point with many ebikes costing thousands more.

I think that the reason SurRons are so cheap is because most bike manufacturers only design the frame and buy everything else from all the same usual suspects. There is very little engineering going on and everything goes through several rounds of mark ups before it reaches the consumer.

What we need is an ebike manufacturer willing to design almost the whole bike, motor, frame, brakes, electronics and suspension. It works for motorcycles so why not bikes?
Honda didn’t develop its brand by designing only the frame and buying everything else. Honda took pride in its engineering, it’s motors, it’s transmissions, it’s suspension and good value for money. We are all paying a high price for the current boutique nature of the ebike industry.

it will take deep pockets, good engineering and persistence but the first company to take that approach will crush the competition.
As soon as a SurRon comes along and rethinks the business model for ebikes everyone else will disappear and we consumers will get better cheaper bikes.

Good points... I think that most brand name EBikes are overpriced and will be more affordable as volume and competition increases.

That said, the Sur-Ron is a beautiful design and a fantastic value... just take my money when they offer a street legal version.

 

[Nova Haibike]

I think that the reason SurRons are so cheap is because most bike manufacturers only design the frame and buy everything else from all the same usual suspects.

I'm pretty sure they buy most of the components stock as well.

everything goes through several rounds of mark ups before it reaches the consumer.

That is where cost saving come in. Like other online-only sellers, there is no dealer mark-up because they are selling directly to the consumer.

What we need is an ebike manufacturer willing to design almost the whole bike, motor, frame, brakes, electronics and suspension. It works for motorcycles so why not bikes?

It would require a huge investment for someone to commit to engineer and build an entire e-bike, with almost no guarantee that it would be better than what is currently available. On top of that, after spending so much on R&D, the bike would surely cost more...not less...than what is currently available.

Remember, Cannondale tried to build a motorcycle, and it killed the company.

 

[Cyklefanatic]

it does not have to be light thats a huge cost savings. who knows the quality of the batteries and such either.

it does not have to be light thats a huge cost savings. who knows the quality of the batteries and such either.

The SurRon actually is light weight for its power. The battery is 32 Ah. more than double most ebikes. The motor and controller are much more powerful than ebike components.

 

[Cyklefanatic]

Yeah, as @fooferdoggie says, low weight is expensive. The Sur-Ron is like 110 lbs.
Looking at SRAM's Eagle line can be instructive. See this article and this video for instance. The components are all interchangeable (I have an NX shifter, GX derailleur, GX cassette, and X01 chain on my wife's bike right now) between versions. There's even a newer, cheaper SX version now. For things like cassettes, weight is the primary differentiator. Same on the shifter, although the X01 adds an adjustable lever. Strong and heavy is easy - strong and light is hard.

The Sur-Ron also goes cheap where they don't think it makes a difference. Like a cable-operated throttle - in the 21st century, really? Or the use of some bicycle-grade components in what is really a small electric motorcycle.

Finally, the Sur-Ron isn't street legal. Lights, mirrors, turn signals, etc., all add up, too.

They built a limited edition version with all the lights and stuff. Like ebikes they want to avoid all of the regulations around building street legal motorcycles so they stick to off road to keep the price down.

it does not have to be light thats a huge cost savings. who knows the quality of the batteries and such either.

The batteries used in the SurRon are high output Panasonic 18650s so they did not cheap out on the batteries.

 

[TMH]

Another aspect of the inexpensiveness of the SurRon is due to its limited legal usability.

- It can't be legally used on the street (unless you can get it registered by probably jumping through a lot of hoops, and only in certain localities);
- It can't be legally used in bike lanes or on bike trails;
- Seems like the only place it could be legally used is on OHV trails (does it need and is it eligible for an OHV registration sticker?), maybe BLM land, or on private property.

If it was street or bike lane legal they likely could and would sell them for a lot more money. But with limited utility they have a limited market, and therefore a limited price tag.

 

[Cyklefanatic]

Most ebike companies do not have their own factory.

They're all made in China, made by Chinese factory. For example, Juiced is Luyuan Bicycles rebadged to Juiced.

They're basically importers, not manufactures.
Most companies are quite upfront about it.

Being up front about it doesn’t make it right. All I am saying is that the current business model leads to high prices. Having only a few really large ebike manufacturers that each made more of the total bike would be cheaper.

 

[Cyklefanatic]

You can analyze what's causing the high prices (or in Sur Ron's case, low price) by checking the individual parts.

Sur Ron
Total Price: $3600

- 60V, 32Ah, 1920Wh Panasonic Battery: $1600
- Motor: $650
- Sinwave Controller: $445

Even the mid motor, considering 200Nm torque & 22500W (over 30 horsepower) potential, it's more heavy duty than Bafang Ultra.
Now, compare them with other brands.

Also, is it possible to build a best bang for buck ebike based on Sur Ron? If Sur Ron was such good deal.
Would something bicycle specific raise the price? Bicycle crank? Derailleur? Shifter? etc?

Making it a pedal ebike costs more because you have to to Shimano, Magura, Suntour and such to buy components.

 

[Alex M]

Making it a pedal ebike costs more because you have to to Shimano, Magura, Suntour and such to buy components.

All it takes to turn e-something into e-bike (at least, by Canadian standards) is a pair of cheap pedals made by no-name Chinese backyard factory. No, wait - it already has pedals ...

 

[Cyklefanatic]

All it takes to turn e-something into e-bike (at least, by Canadian standards) is a pair of cheap pedals made by no-name Chinese backyard factory. No, wait - it already has pedals ...

Those aren’t really ebikes they are poorly made scooters that have useless pedals required by law. Nobody ever pedals those bikes.

 

[PDoz]

So far we have 3 different forks pictured , the add says DNM tested via " many drops" , but the add has pictures including rockshox . Then we get the version above with " killah" forks. Good luck.

so what do you get when unpacking your $3600 " bargain" ? More importantly, what after sales support do you get?

Just reflecting on the the average $3600 big brand bike - you're at the price point where suspension has jumped up from suntour nx to fox 36 performance - that's a $1 k jump in just the forks. Even a giant stance has better forks than dnm and is $400 cheaper!

Same deal with rear suspension. Who knows what brakes you get - will pads be available in 4/5 years?

Continue the comparison with a $3600 emtb - you get a $200 dropper post, cranks ( $200) , does that thing even have gears?

 

[FlatSix911]

So far we have 3 different forks pictured, the add says DNM tested via " many drops" , but the add has pictures including RockShox . Then we get the version above with " killah" forks. Good luck.

so what do you get when unpacking your $3600 " bargain" ? More importantly, what after sales support do you get?

Just reflecting on the average $3600 big brand bike - you're at the price point where suspension has jumped up from Suntour nx to fox 36 performance - that's a $1 k jump in just the forks. Even a giant stance has better forks than dnm and is $400 cheaper!

Same deal with rear suspension. Who knows what brakes you get - will pads be available in 4/5 years?
Continue the comparison with a $3600 emtb - you get a $200 dropper post, cranks ( $200), does that thing even have gears?

Actually, the Sur-Ron has higher quality motorcycle components... there is no way to justify the current cost of "brand name" bikes.

Hopefully, the price of eBikes will go down as popularity grows and mass production is achieved.

 

[PDoz]

Actually, the Sur-Ron has higher quality motorcycle components... there is no way to justify the current cost of "brand name" bikes.

So what forks do you get?

The pictures from that link show multiple types. We see bikes with conventional rock shox boxers, something called " volcano" conventional forks, then 2 rear views of upside down forks with either black or gold legs! Does it come with a rock shox charger damper upgrade as pictured from the tripple clamp view despite them stating in the text it has dnm forks?

By " motorbike" components - are we talking chinese pit bike or KTM beaters ? Amongst my bicycle fleet there are forks ranging from cheap kids un damped pogo sticks right through to 36 mm multi adjustable fox , there are 3 sets of mtb fox forks that easily outperform the fast ace motorbike forks on my swm motorbike!

I'm not trying to be argumentative here - the concept is really appealing as a bike for my kids to ride around the paddock. But I've been stung by chinese look alike motorbikes before . This is my swm rs 650 , the modern evolution of a husky te 630 , built by a chinese invested company in the old husky factory in italy. It's definitely NOT a husky. The forks were advertised as marzochis but turned out to be fast ace - forget about getting custom springs or dampening ,and when they wear out they get thrown out instead of serviced because none of the suspension gurus are interested in chasing consumables. I don't fool myself into thinking it's a high quality european motorbike - I've owned plenty if them and have experienced the difference. It's still a good bike for the money, but I pray ktm and guzzi don't try to price match swm by dropping their standards so low! ( insert the good old days picture ....before I sold my fleet of guzzi / ktm to service 3 kids with a mtb addiction.....)

 

[Cyklefanatic]

My $4,400 cdn. Vado has only the most basic fork and no rear suspension and a much smaller battery and motor. So where are the excellent components I am supposedly getting?

 

[FlatSix911]

So what forks do you get?

The pictures from that link show multiple types. We see bikes with conventional rock shox boxers, something called " volcano" conventional forks, then 2 rear views of upside down forks with either black or gold legs! Does it come with a rock shox charger damper upgrade as pictured from the tripple clamp view despite them stating in the text it has dnm forks?

By " motorbike" components - are we talking chinese pit bike or KTM beaters ? Amongst my bicycle fleet there are forks ranging from cheap kids un damped pogo sticks right through to 36 mm multi adjustable fox , there are 3 sets of mtb fox forks that easily outperform the fast ace motorbike forks on my swm motorbike!

I'm not trying to be argumentative here - the concept is really appealing as a bike for my kids to ride around the paddock. But I've been stung by chinese look alike motorbikes before . This is my swm rs 650 , the modern evolution of a husky te 630 , built by a chinese invested company in the old husky factory in italy. It's definitely NOT a husky. The forks were advertised as marzochis but turned out to be fast ace - forget about getting custom springs or dampening ,and when they wear out they get thrown out instead of serviced because none of the suspension gurus are interested in chasing consumables. I don't fool myself into thinking it's a high quality european motorbike - I've owned plenty if them and have experienced the difference. It's still a good bike for the money, but I pray ktm and guzzi don't try to price match swm by dropping their standards so low! ( insert the good old days picture ....before I sold my fleet of guzzi / ktm to service 3 kids with a mtb addiction.....)

Nice fleet of bikes!

I haven't pulled the trigger yet on the Sur Ron... I am waiting a street legal version.

 

[PDoz]

Street Legal Sur Ron? That sounds like too much work.
It's been discussed by Eric from Luna Cycles.

You can buy a street legal version in Australia https://www.surronaustralia.com.au/surron-australia-on-road-light-bee-l1e

 

[Cyklefanatic]

Looks like Segway is rebranding SurRons and raising the price.

Segway Dirt eBike X260

Segway Dirt eBike X260

store.segway.com

 

[FlatSix911]

Looks like Segway is rebranding SurRons and raising the price.

Segway Dirt eBike X260

Segway Dirt eBike X260

store.segway.com

View attachment 52396

That is a significant premium over the Sur Ron $3,600 direct price vs the Segway at $4,999... I don't see any additional equipment for $1,400.

Surron X Bike (Black Edition)

We are the USA distributor of this fast and fun dirt ebike.... buy it from the source! We have the newest bikes at the best price.

lunacycle.com