Why are SurRons so cheap?

[Cyklefanatic]

That is a significant premium over the Sur Ron $3,600 direct price vs the Segway at $4,999... I don't see any additional equipment for $1,400.

Surron X Bike (Black Edition)

We are the USA distributor of this fast and fun dirt ebike.... buy it from the source! We have the newest bikes at the best price.

lunacycle.com

The extra money is for the Segway brand recognition.

 

[Cyklefanatic]

Just found this link for a factory street legal SurRon.
Prices are higher but still within ebike territory.

Surron L1e LBX Road Legal Electric Motorcycle Moped **

The Sur-Ron Light Bee X Road Legal L1E Dual Sport E-Dirt Bike promises advanced fun on all terrain. 60V and more than 6kW of peak power from a removal Panasonic Lithium ion battery pack. Forged light weight alloy frame combined with hi-spec components. E-Bike Electric Bike E-Motorcycle Electric...

surron.co.uk

 

[FlatSix911]

Just found this link for a factory street legal SurRon.
Prices are higher but still within ebike territory.

Surron L1e LBX Road Legal Electric Motorcycle Moped **

The Sur-Ron Light Bee X Road Legal L1E Dual Sport E-Dirt Bike promises advanced fun on all terrain. 60V and more than 6kW of peak power from a removal Panasonic Lithium ion battery pack. Forged light weight alloy frame combined with hi-spec components. E-Bike Electric Bike E-Motorcycle Electric...

surron.co.uk

Thanks for the link, however, it appears to be sold out.

 

[Alaskan]

"There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price alone are that person's lawful prey.

It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money – that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.

The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot – it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better." John Ruskin

 

[Cyklefanatic]

"There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price alone are that person's lawful prey.

It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money – that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.

The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot – it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better." John Ruskin

I couldn’t disagree more. I grew up in the sixties when Honda came on the scene and built super reliable motorcycles like the club 90 the CB350 and the CB750. They added features that didn’t previously exist and they were reliable as hammers. Honda bankrupted many of the old guard manufacturers.
Disrupters come along and take reimagine a business model and kill off their staid never change competition.

 

[Dr.V]

As brought up up in other threads/forums, here's a street legal equivalent of the Sur-Ron (if you want pedal-less) for $2500:

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

It has some reviews out there, too.

 

[Nova Haibike]

"There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price alone are that person's lawful prey."

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten." Benjamin Franklin.

 

[Solom01]

Interesting conversation. I can only speak for the US but in the car industry it is easy to show that inexpensive Koread and Japanese cars are far more reliable and cheaper to mainrain than the German brands. There are still lots of people who have convinced themselves that the German cars are better, but that's more a function of supposed better handling or snob appeal or what not but on any measurable scale of how often a car requires service and the cost of that service there is no doubt that the German cars (and for that matter all the European brands) are at the bottom of the scale. The Benjamin Franklin quotes made sense when everything was hand made. Now that just about everything is made robotically things have changed.

 

[ki11a]

I wouldnt call them cheap but in terms of price and power and legality they are about the same as dirtbikes.

 

[FlatSix911]

Not German, but..

Yamaha developing a motor for Alfa Romeo 4C

Great to see Yamaha getting into the sustainable transportation market.

 

[Cyklefanatic]

Interesting conversation. I can only speak for the US but in the car industry it is easy to show that inexpensive Koread and Japanese cars are far more reliable and cheaper to mainrain than the German brands. There are still lots of people who have convinced themselves that the German cars are better, but that's more a function of supposed better handling or snob appeal or what not but on any measurable scale of how often a car requires service and the cost of that service there is no doubt that the German cars (and for that matter all the European brands) are at the bottom of the scale. The Benjamin Franklin quotes made sense when everything was hand made. Now that just about everything is made robotically things have changed.

Exactly what you said!

 

[dmark]

I think SurRon is an amazing deal. I think SurRons are so inexpesive right now because demand for ebikes is higher than demand for emotocross bikes, and dealers are having trouble clearing out their old stock of SurRons. I would buy a SurRon, except I am worried that chances of getting pulled over depend primarily on how much your bike stands out from the rest of the herd.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/e-bike-rider-loses-court-case-against-ticket-for-operating-without-licence-insurance-1.5551692

 

[Cyklefanatic]

I would definitely not ride Sur Ron on bike trail or anywhere in the public.
That thing is an electric dirtbike, not an ebike.

No pedal, foot pegs only, dirtbike seats, everything about Sur Ron screams dirtbike.

My real point is that the bike is so cheap yet it has a good frame, good suspension, good brakes, huge battery and motor yet it costs less than a decent ebike.

 

[reed scott]

Street Legal Sur Ron? That sounds like too much work.
It's been discussed by Eric from Luna Cycles.

Luna may have left the land of the living/active creating world. Seems now they are just selling off the plant and a drivel of product. What do you expect from a company run by a craven old loony hippy?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My Giant e-MTB weighs 24 kg, and the Sur Ron X Bike is twice of that. The X Bike is not an e-MTB. It is an electric cross motorcycle.

If the OP looked to the specs of decent e-MTB, each component is named by manufacturer and model. We only know it might be RST or DNM front fork. What is the rear-suspension? I would be interested to know what rims, what tyres, and especially what brakes have been used in that "mountain" e-motorcycle because that information is a kind of joke.

 

[Cyklefanatic]

My Giant e-MTB weighs 24 kg, and the Sur Ron X Bike is twice of that. The X Bike is not an e-MTB. It is an electric cross motorcycle.

If the OP looked to the specs of decent e-MTB, each component is named by manufacturer and model. We only know it might be RST or DNM front fork. What is the rear-suspension? I would be interested to know what rims, what tyres, and especially what brakes have been used in that "mountain" e-motorcycle because that information is a kind of joke.

View attachment 64899

look at it this way when my Vado battery dies I can buy two replacement batteries from Specialzed or I can buy 1 SorRon and make 4 battery packs and throw away everything else.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

This is an interesting topic.

I spend a lot of time thinking about the ways to build an E-bike that is reliable and has parts/support availability and doesn't cost an arm and leg. It is one reason, Segway purchased Sur Ron. They see the opportunity here.
Innovation is not just about bringing ABS or GPS to an bike but also bringing the cost down without compromising on quality and performance. The biggest bottleneck from my perspective is the supply chain.
If we consolidate all the supply chain into one area then it makes a HUGE difference.

Companies located in Asia have this ability but then once you start exporting, you bring in middlemen, taxes, tariffs, export duties, customs etc.
Companies like CANYON in Germany have been able to consolidate their supply chain and go consumer direct and as a result, they had very disruptive pricing which was unheard of in the EU.

 

[FlatSix911]

This is an interesting topic.

I spend a lot of time thinking about the ways to build an E-bike that is reliable and has parts/support availability and doesn't cost an arm and leg. It is one reason, Segway purchased Sur Ron. They see the opportunity here.
Innovation is not just about bringing ABS or GPS to a bike but also bringing the cost down without compromising on quality and performance. The biggest bottleneck from my perspective is the supply chain.
If we consolidate all the supply chain into one area then it makes a HUGE difference.

Companies located in Asia have this ability but then once you start exporting, you bring in middlemen, taxes, tariffs, export duties, customs etc.
Companies like CANYON in Germany have been able to consolidate their supply chain and go consumer direct and as a result, they had very disruptive pricing which was unheard of in the EU.

Good analysis... and glad to hear the Canyon is shaking things up in Germany.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Companies like CANYON in Germany have been able to consolidate their supply chain and go consumer direct and as a result, they had very disruptive pricing which was unheard of in the EU.

Ravi, you made me interested, so I looked to the Canyon offer. I was surprised: any of Canyon e-bikes (except of e-MTB) comes with a rigid fork. Surprised their price is lower than of the competition? And - is it lower? Because Canyon are at the Giant or Specialized price level here in Europe.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I was surprised: any of Canyon e-bikes (except of e-MTB) comes with a rigid fork.

Hi Stefan,

Canyon mostly works with carbon frames and carbon forks. They also warranty their frame and fork for a decent amount of time. For urban use, a decent carbon fork is better suited than cheap spring suspensions that you find on most bikes. It is one reason Trek Allat 9+s, earlier Vado and some CANYON bikes use them.

Cracked Sender - Canyon's Response - Pinkbike

My long term test rig from Canyon cracked after I published the review. Here's Canyon's response, complete with CT scans and lab analysis.

www.pinkbike.com

is it lower? Because Canyon are at the Giant or Specialized price level here in Europe.

Their regular bikes are very aggressively priced.
In the E-bike market, among all the companies in EU, CUBE has very aggressive pricing but their bikes have various trim levels (low to high-end).
CANYON on the other hand, for the high-end components they offer, their prices are lower than Giant and Specialized for sure.